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Author: Subject: 5-ATZ(5-Aminotetrazole), the nitrotetrazolate ion and friends
Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 8-5-2016 at 12:30






gone.jpg - 27kB
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OneEyedPyro
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[*] posted on 8-5-2016 at 16:33


That's a relief to see him gone, spreading misinformation in the energetics section could get people killed!
I noticed a lot of what he said implied that he had physically made certain compounds yet at the same time lacked a basic understanding of those comounds properties. Anyone else think he seemed like a complete poser?
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NeonPulse
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[*] posted on 8-5-2016 at 16:48


Indeed. I'm surprised he lasted this long. The rant in the prepublication thread was a bad move. He did have an air of arrogance and tried to play everyone for fools
but it was easy to see through. I'm sure He will be back reincarnated though. People like that always seem to like having the final say and can't help themselves. - unless he copped an IP ban that is. Check for similar attitudes and post structures.




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there is a way.
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Bert
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[*] posted on 8-5-2016 at 20:26


I will give this person a second chance...


Quote:
Certainly, I will need something first, though.

1: Find a print edition of ANY of the several volumes of Tadeusz Urbanski: Chemistry and Technology of Explosives. As you are licensed for explosives chemistry work and have friends and mentors in the art, this will present little difficulty.

2: Take a picture of the book, your right hand on the cover, not obscuring title- And also in field of view, the front page from a (local to your home) newspaper, clearly showing the locality and the same date as this picture's posting date. You need not show your face or any other identifying features, and may wear gloves if you wish.

3: Start a new account under the name: a Nitrogen rich material and post this picture as your first post under that name in the "beginnings" forum, along with your oath to post righteously in the future. I will then IMMEDIATELY restore your posting privileges under your original screen name.

After that, you will post some links or other verifiable references showing your sources of information on ANYTHING in the energetic materials fields you choose to ask questions about.

State your informational sources, and explicitly say " I speculate" or "I have personally observed" as appropriate. In the case of original work, actual lab notes, including some pictures of apparatus, operations and products, along with any test data derived and balanced equations for all reactions.






Quote:
I swear that I will stop bullshitting. It hasn't got me far yet, because everybody else is too experienced to see through it. Now, I have heptanitropentane with photos of explosion. Please don't ban me.





Boom.
The explosion removed the windows, the door and most of the chimney.
It was the sort of thing you expected in the Street of alchemists. The neighbors preferred explosions, which were at least identifiable and soon over. They were better than the smells, which crept up on you.
-Terry Pratchett, "Moving Pictures"
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a nitrogen rich explosive
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[*] posted on 8-5-2016 at 23:28


Why the local newspaper?
Anyway, I'll do what I can.

I haven't been banned from posting!!




I can't think of a better signature.
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Bert
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[*] posted on 9-5-2016 at 04:32


Erm. I apologize for that, and have made the needed change. Please proceed as directed above...



Boom.
The explosion removed the windows, the door and most of the chimney.
It was the sort of thing you expected in the Street of alchemists. The neighbors preferred explosions, which were at least identifiable and soon over. They were better than the smells, which crept up on you.
-Terry Pratchett, "Moving Pictures"
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aga
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[*] posted on 9-5-2016 at 11:09


ROFL



Madness is thinking i'm not drunk.
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Bert
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[*] posted on 13-5-2016 at 05:12


A Nitrogen rich material may be mere animal byproduct in origin, but that is no shame- a smelly mess in the barn can be a valuable fertilizer on the back 40...



Boom.
The explosion removed the windows, the door and most of the chimney.
It was the sort of thing you expected in the Street of alchemists. The neighbors preferred explosions, which were at least identifiable and soon over. They were better than the smells, which crept up on you.
-Terry Pratchett, "Moving Pictures"
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 15-5-2016 at 14:40


I thought I was leading the bullshit in this forum until reading nitrogen rich explosive's posts lol
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 16-5-2016 at 04:52


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
I thought I was leading the bullshit in this forum until reading nitrogen rich explosive's posts lol

No you are not bullshitting Troll at all!
You usually give good, realistic ideas and references.




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 07:35


1,5-Di(nitramino)tetrazole: High Sensitivity and Superior Explosive Performance


This is an interesting report about a green energetic initiator. The synthesis appears to be complex in comparison with the potassium salt of DDNR which would have similar properties.

I think this energetic tetrazole compound should be compared with the potassium salt of DDNR which is gotten much more easily and economically to see if there is a favorable comparison in properties and performance. The economics for the easier gotten DDNR compound could cause it to be a better choice.

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nitro-genes
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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 12:02


Was wondering, I've seen very crude calcium cyanamide is available here as fertilizer. If one would be interested in cyanoguanidine: what if you would blend diammoniumsulfate/phosphate salts (very cheap) with the impure fertilzer and add to 40-70 deg C water, filter the solution hot and let the cyanoguanidine precipitate (maybe some calcium as well). Was thinking by some trial and error, mixing in the right proportions and taking into account solubilitites of all components, it could be a very cheap and OTC possibility.

I've also seen some people use the calcium cyanurate route for calcium cyanamide. What exactly is this calcium cyanurate? Ca(Cyanuric), Ca(Cyanuric)2, Ca(Cyanuric)(OH)? If you could make the latter, would there be no loss of cyanic acid during pyrolysis and higher yield? Sorry if this has been explained before

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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 13:05


Commercial fertilizer grade cyanamide can be worked up to produce cyanoguandine or 25 Kg bags of pure cyanoguanidine are available as a soil treatment slow release nitrogen but it is moderately expensive, maybe $10 per Kg.

I suggest the UTFSE approach to references on calcium cyanurate as a pyrolysis conversion precursor for calcium cyanamide. Since I gleaned that information from patents and other references....it involves a shortcut for the urea and lime process by jumping to the intermediate in that process that would otherwise be formed in situ in a less pure form. Cyanuric acid is easily made from urea and ammonium chloride or can be obtained commercially as chlorine stabilizer, rendered moderately soluble in boiling water neutralizing with sodium bicarbonate as the disodium salt and further reacted with a solution of calcium chloride to precipitate calcium cyanurate, which will pyrolytically convert entirely to pure calcium cyanamide at a low red heat, if air is excluded. First comes off cyanic acid as the calcium cyanurate decomposes first to calcium cyanate, and then CO2 comes off leaving pure calcium cyanamide.
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nitro-genes
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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 14:26


Fair enough, wasnt aware cyanoguanidine was available as fertilizer, haven't seen it anywhere though. And yes, I've seen sulfuric acid neutralization of calcium cyanamide to produce cyanamide and dicyandiamide (local low pH, expensive), CO2 (Needs rigorous stirring and gassing to complete reaction), acetic acid (expensive, usually low concentration), all producing low yield (IIRC). The synthesis of dicyandiamide from free cyanamide is usually performed under basic conditions. From what I've read preferably ammonia and not strong alkali since the alkaline earth metal salts are not stable from what I've read. So combining all of these, the neutralization of calcium cyanamide with cheap ammonium salts forming strongly insoluble calcium salts (mono-di ammonium phosphates, sulfates or maybe even ammonium or sodium bicarbonate) would possibly yield ammonia and cyanamide, which upon condensing would possibly yield dicyandiamide in high yield and I haven't seen this particular route mentioned before.

I've made cyanuric acid from urea before using a bit of (185-210C) boiling paraffin oil as dispersant (OTC candle oil). IMO, there is no other use for the ammonium chloride than for dilution and to make elimination of NH3 from the viscous melt (which could form amelide and amelidine) more easy. So I was now contemplating the synthesis of calcium cyanurate you posted, starting from 2 moles of NaOH, cyanuric acid and calcium chloride posted here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2762, which mentions (HOCN)3 + 2 NaOH + CaCl2 ---> CaH(OCN)3 + 2 NaCl + 2 HOH. Just wondering if that second OH of cyanuric acid is deprotonated completely and solubilities of hydroxide double salt may be causing a basic calcium cyanurate to be formed or even if some complex is formed containing additional sodium. I havent seen any mention of a patent here, nor yields of aminoguandine from someone or analysis of the cyanamide produced. It is not criticizing just curiosity.

[Edited on 12-6-2016 by nitro-genes]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 15:53


Yeah there was a couple of ways to do the stoichiometry and I described the one I think that applied to an experimental I performed. This linked post should take you to other pages that follow up with other ideas.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2762&g...

There was an alternative hypothetical possible I think where perhaps there would not be lost anything but CO2 ...but the more straightforward approach seemed to be just to let one cyanic acid burn off to form the calcium cyanate.

[Edited on 6/13/2016 by Rosco Bodine]
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