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Author: Subject: Tracking EBAY sales
gregxy
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[*] posted on 8-5-2007 at 09:52
Tracking EBAY sales


Does anyone out there know if the FBI/CIA or who ever tracks EBAY purchases in the USA??

I have purchased aluminum powder and hexamine on ebay and no one has raided my home. There is a guy selling NH4NO3 in 10 lb lots. I'm just wondering if buying too much of this kind of thing will put me on some "terrorist watch" list.
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woelen
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[*] posted on 8-5-2007 at 13:46


I am ordering chemicals over the Internet for more than 6 years already, and I think in this way, I have obtained more than 150 chemicals in small amounts over the years. I still am happy experimenting. I ordered chems through eBay, from on-line sellers, from private persons, etc. and always paid with credit card, or with PayPal.

As long as you stick to small quantities (pounds or less), then I see no real risk. If you order many kilograms of the same chemical (especially strong oxidizers, very toxic material, or otherwise risky stuff), then that may cause some flagging on your name, but small amounts of all kinds of chemicals, including many innocuous ones I don't think is a risk.
But I must admit, although I ordered many things from the USA, I am not a US-citizen.

Also stay away from the really watched stuff. For me, this risk is less severe, but I know that in the USA there is a list of highly watched chemicals (so-called List 1). Avoid these chemicals.

[Edited on 8-5-07 by woelen]




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[*] posted on 8-5-2007 at 20:06


Quote:
Originally posted by gregxy
I'm just wondering if buying too much of this kind of thing will put me on some "terrorist watch" list.


Yes. Ebay has no moral issues about turning over any and all records to various feds. I think a lot is to do with feds trying to track sellers to tax them. And they will keep databases about everything.
Will a couple purchases have you on a 'list', yes, is that list high enough on their priorities list to make them really out to get you? Probably not. Just don't go ordering dozens of kilos of something, or any listed chems. Like woelen mentioned.

Just treat it like any other chemical supplier, the same precautions must be taken on ebay as with a real one.




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[*] posted on 9-5-2007 at 06:26


There is little question in my mind that it's easy to get "on a list" from some federal agency. That had been established many years ago in the United States but it doesn't mean that you should feel any trepidation or reluctance to continue to buy from Ebay. but there is NO QUESTION in my mind of their policies and they interaction they have with 3 letter agencies, etc. I actually think that everyone who even reads about certain subjects and browses the net for same or writes Email with tagged references is on a list. But lists don't mean anything until civil liberties are withdrawn. I don't think it's paranoiac to say that there are thousands of lists but they are just that.....
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[*] posted on 9-5-2007 at 16:48


I wouldn't be too concerned. Ebay does comply with any requests, and probably turns over thousands of sales records monthly.

They may keep tabs on you, but if you're not buying stuff in bulk, direct precursors, illegal materials, or acting shady about it, you'll be fine. I ordered a lot of sodium off of ebay, and in retrospect, that purchase probably looks very bad. I consistently and openly buy glassware off of ebay too, and never once have I had a problem. However, I've done nothing illegal with the sodium, and it has uses outside of chemistry (friend of mine rebuilds engines, he actually paid for the stuff, I just got a finder's fee :) ). If you have a good reason to be using it and you're open and honest about your intentions, then I do not see much problem.

Honestly, if someone were up to something bad, why would they obtain it through ebay? Surely an electronic fingerprint is a no-no?




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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 9-5-2007 at 21:24


I've ordered tons of crap off of ebay with no problems... just stay the heck away from the iodine and sassafras oil and you should be OK.



Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
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[*] posted on 11-5-2007 at 09:55


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428062dea1.html

Looks to me as though Carlos Legrand was making something he shouldn't have been. I'm going to assume it was the safrole and the tablet press that got the authorities on him, but the thing that bothers me is that they listed several innocuous things on his arrest warrant as "used in the manufacture of MDMA". A melting point apparatus, MnO2, a rotavap, and a few other things that any [legitimate] lab would almost certainly have. The oxygen in the air and the water from the faucet could also be "used in the manufacture of" drugs or whatever.

So, despite the fact that many of us order glassware etc on ebay and use it for legitimate purposes, there is always the worry that someone will "get the wrong idea" when we buy distilling apparati, melting point apparati, thermometers, MnO2, etc. :mad:

That said, I don't plan to stop using ebay. Nor do I plan to stop being a chemist just because someone, who knows next to nothing about chemistry, has decided that my lab equipment could "potentially" be used to make drugs.

I think I know what some of you are worried about : if they look around in your lab and can't find any drug residue, they'll fudge the data. If you know what I mean. Whether that will actually happen or not seems to be a hotly debated area.

I know an analytical chemist who runs a certified testing lab. He processes samples from all over the state. He even gets work from 3-letter agencies. The authorities STILL came to his place to see what he was doing "with all these solvents".

Truly I say to you, something is wrong with this picture.
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[*] posted on 11-5-2007 at 13:51


Quote:
So, despite the fact that many of us order glassware etc on ebay and use it for legitimate purposes, there is always the worry that someone will "get the wrong idea" when we buy distilling apparati, melting point apparati, thermometers, MnO2, etc


I certainly would not worry too much about this. It is the combination of items. I can't believe that MnO2 or any weird totally non-drugs related combination of chemicals will trigger this. MnO2 apparently can be used in the process of drugs-making, but as you said, distilled water can also be used for that.

I'm 100% sure that the tablet press, combined with the saffrole and added to this all the other items triggered the investigations. And I must agree, a tablet press and saffrole do not have a place in a ligit home lab. Could you imagine any non-drugs experimenting with saffrole?

Also surprising was that ethyldiamine was just mentioned a chemical, while e.g. MnO2 was mentioned as a chemical, used for making MDMA.




[Edited on 11-5-07 by woelen]




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[*] posted on 11-5-2007 at 14:26


Quote:
Originally posted by woelen
I'm 100% sure that the tablet press, combined with the saffrole and added to this all the other items triggered the investigations. And I must agree, a tablet press and saffrole do not have a place in a ligit home lab. Could you imagine any non-drugs experimenting with saffrole?
[Edited on 11-5-07 by woelen]


You're right woelen. When talking to non-chemistry people on the net, however, we madscientists should be sure to point out that it isn't hot plates and thermometers that indicate someone to be a drug cook; it's safrole and tablet presses.

Some people think of all these things in similar terms.

But then there's the story of the two 'alchemists' in Henry, Virginia, who were definitely not making drugs, but LE decided they must have a meth lab because "three necked flasks are used in drug manufacture". These two guys lost over $15000 in equipment, smashed up that same day by LE, who later came back with test results and realized it wasn't really a drug lab.

Then again, this ordeal wasn't because of buying on ebay, but because the men had some kind of contact with local LE, who freaked out because they weren't used to seeing glassware in someone's home.

I think it's actually more perilous to an amateur experimenter when some policeman makes an on-the-spot decision, as opposed to having had time to study the person's on-line buying patterns, etc., to see what it is they're really up to.
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[*] posted on 13-5-2007 at 08:26


I think a lot also depends on demeanor. If one is honest and straightforward about the hobby and offers a good explanation or even demonstration of what one is doing, then people take much more kindly to it. A lab book/log book of experiments, a database of MSDS and disposal protocols go the extra mile.

But really, I'm worried too. I almost feel that I need to be covert too, because people just get the wrong ideas. After all, it's not hard for someone to think the wrong thing and assume the worst just because they do not understand what you're doing. And then there's the expert witness who's a chemist that holds the firm belief that chemistry not done in the university or industrial research lab is no *legitimate* chemistry at all. That I think is our great struggle, the legitimacy of what we're doing. However, as long as their are people that do buy drug precursors and tablet presses, or people that buy 50lb sacks of pentaerythritol, there will always be a need for this. It's those few that ruin it for the majority of us honest folk.

With respect to those unfortunate gentleman in Virginia, you would think that law enforcement would realize that they're up to nothing bad if they're so open about it. How many drug cooks would advertise their laboratories to the law? C'mon guys. Bet those two fellows never got more than "Aw shucks, sorry about the glass, but y'all shouldn't a had it anyways now."




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[*] posted on 13-5-2007 at 12:22


Quote:
Could you imagine any non-drugs experimenting with saffrole?

In a heart-beat. Safrole is a wonderful compound: A benzodioxole group, a 3C-linker and a polymerisable group. It's cheap and natural (green chemistry!).

Coordinate it to some metal and polymerise it with whatever monomer you like to get functional polymers.

Polymerise it on a solid support for reverse phase chromatography.

And so on and so forth...
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[*] posted on 13-5-2007 at 20:23


Quote:
Could you imagine any non-drugs experimenting with safrole?


Wouldn't you also be able to break the double bond to make an alcohol or acid derivative, and then make esters from that, which probably smell nice?

Still, I don't think I'd try to buy any on eBay.
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[*] posted on 13-5-2007 at 22:30


Quote:
Originally posted by turdIn a heart-beat. Safrole is a wonderful compound: A benzodioxole group, a 3C-linker and a polymerisable group. It's cheap and natural (green chemistry!).

Coordinate it to some metal and polymerise it with whatever monomer you like to get functional polymers.

Polymerise it on a solid support for reverse phase chromatography.

And so on and so forth...

All these nice things can also be done with other chemicals, and with some effort you'll probably find another non-drugs-related chemical which combines all these properties.

No, I will stay away from this, I value my materials too much...




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[*] posted on 16-5-2007 at 20:01


Quote:
Originally posted by Pyridinium
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428062dea1.html

... but the thing that bothers me is that they listed several innocuous things on his arrest warrant as "used in the manufacture of MDMA". A melting point apparatus, MnO2, a rotavap, and a few other things that any [legitimate] lab would almost certainly have. The oxygen in the air and the water from the faucet could also be "used in the manufacture of" drugs or whatever.


Well, I think when it comes to proving someone was a meth cook, beyond a reasonable doubt, then they still need to detail that the person had just about everything needed to make the suspect compounds, plus residue of it in the lab. If you only had a few things on a precursor list, and not the rest of the stuff required (which could include MnO2 and other common chemicals), then how are they going to prove you were a "meth cook"?

I would certainly hope that the government is at lest that rationale.

Just my 2 cents
-Alan
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[*] posted on 17-5-2007 at 06:50


Unfortunatly they are not that rational.

The way the laws read in the USA, merely purchasing List I chemicals is enough to get slapped with a "possession with intent to manufacture" charge.

[Edited on 17-5-2007 by evil_lurker]




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[*] posted on 6-7-2007 at 06:22


I just filled up a form to the authorities to show and declare that I have purchased something flammable/propellant to alert them. This way, you won't receive as much problems, as long as you're not doing anything wrong with it right?
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[*] posted on 7-7-2007 at 07:02


Quote:
Originally posted by tito-o-mac
I just filled up a form to the authorities to show and declare that I have purchased something flammable/propellant to alert them. This way, you won't receive as much problems, as long as you're not doing anything wrong with it right?


Here you must define the term "wrong".
Would anyone take a short-cut to appear productive on the job? In law enforcement, that means to arrest someone and concoct a story for the DA to prosecute that person for an alleged crime. I imagine that you need to ask the question; "would someone do something like that to increase their statistics"?....Oh God, yes.
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[*] posted on 24-8-2007 at 03:41


A federal agent assigned to troll the Internet for drug-manufacturing purchases tipped off investigators to a potential ecstasy lab in a south Boulder home after tracing suspicious eBay transactions to the house.

Carl Dubois, 29, is suspected of using an online PayPal account to buy thousands of dollars' worth of chemicals, laboratory equipment and "essential oils" commonly used to manufacture ecstasy, according to a search warrant made public Tuesday.

Dubois' suspected eBay activity includes a $2,595 purchase from Trung Nguyen, "a Canadian citizen who has previously sold sassafras oil," investigators said. Sassafras oil contains large amounts of safrole, which is used to make ecstasy, according to the warrant.

"Although many of the items Dubois purchased can be used for other purposes, when used together in the proper quantities and procedures, these items can be used in the illicit manufacture of ecstasy," a detective wrote in the warrant.

Dubois and Debra Cerio, 41, were arrested last week after police raided their south Boulder home at 720 S. 46th St., which backs up to Summit Middle School. Police said they found enough chemicals to produce up to 80,000 doses of ecstasy.

Both have been charged with multiple drug charges, including conspiring to manufacture, distribute or posses a controlled substance.

Dubois left jail Tuesday after posting a $60,000 bond. Cerio has been out of jail for a week after posting a $25,000 bond. Neither could be reached for comment.

Officers who dismantled the lab said there's no indication the two sold any doses of the drug, adding that the suspected lab was caught early in its inception.

Cerio, who police said is Dubois' girlfriend, is suspected of being involved in the ecstasy lab because her name is on a credit card statement for several purchases from chemical-supply businesses, according to the warrant.

Friends, though, have said Dubois had the lab equipment because he's an aspiring chemical engineering student. Cerio has publicly declared the couple's innocence.

A federal agent who monitors the purchase of sassafras oil, lab glassware and chemicals through administrative subpoenas began tracking Dubois' activity on eBay last year.

In July 2006, Dubois used the PayPal account freebasing@hotmail.com to buy vacuum pumps, glass beakers, flasks and chemicals. On Jan. 17, 18 and 20, he bought three flasks, a gas regulator and $879 worth of "essential oils," the search warrant said.


Officers said they confirmed that Dubois received items purchased online through the "freebasing" account by collecting trash from outside the south Boulder residence.

Investigators determined Dubois probably wasn't taking the chemicals he bought to a lab because his "normal mode of transportation is a motorcycle."

"I believe it is unlikely that Dubois would be transporting chemicals and laboratory equipment from his residence, where they are received, to another location on his motorcycle," the warrant said.

Over the past two years, the federal agent who informed Boulder County investigators about the possible ecstasy lab has provided various agencies with information that has led to the discovery and dismantling of more than three dozen methamphetamine and ecstasy labs, the warrant said.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007/aug/22/ebay-activity-le...
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[*] posted on 24-8-2007 at 06:24


Although I find it quite worrying that they are searching eBay for suspicious transactions, I had not expected otherwise. This case is not a strong case in favor of most legit buyers, who are true hobbyists. A purchase of more than $2500 worth of sassafras oil also would make me think of drugs-making. What would a home chemist want with sassafras oil, the more so with $2500 worth of it? I cannot believe that this couple had other intentions than making drugs of this.



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[*] posted on 24-8-2007 at 14:03


But the article does not say that he bought sassafras oil. Nor are the police saying what they are basing dosage units on. No one is saying that they found safrole or anything else except "chemicals" and "glassware", even though as usual the police have already pronounced the couples guilt in the media.

The woman involved has a bad mugshot on the Rocky Mountain News site.

They went through the whole sarin/NCl3 lab routine as usual.

"Officers remain on scene and are being sent into the house wearing protective gear to photograph and collect evidence. Because of the hazardous chemicals present, Prentup said, each agent can only spend 20 minutes in the house before being rotated out."

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007/aug/14/local-police-dea...
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[*] posted on 24-8-2007 at 15:53


Lord knows I have bought all kinds of stuff off ebay.. but never iodine, safrole, or any other Listed Chemical... purchasing safrole off of ebay is a bust waiting to happen...



Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
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[*] posted on 24-8-2007 at 22:03


Quote:
Originally posted by woelen
I am ordering chemicals over the Internet for more than 6 years already, and I think in this way, I have obtained more than 150 chemicals in small amounts over the years.



I think this exemplifies the (concept of openness) "ain't doing nothing illegal" ambiance. Most likely the safest if indeed one is not buying List 1 stuff. The cash-paying post-office box thing would certainly turn heads.

But mostly, I agree with amount being a trigger. If I am correct even List 1 stuff won't flip on a lot of attention (nor violate Fed statutes) if it's bought in small amounts (25gr of P, etc). But I wouldn't do it myself in any event. Drug mfg really IS the issue with chemicals IMO.
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[*] posted on 25-8-2007 at 15:40


Where is this so called "list 1" found?
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[*] posted on 25-8-2007 at 16:33
DEA Watched Chemicals


(1) List I chemicals:
(i) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(1)(ii) of this section, the
following thresholds have been established for List I chemicals.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chemical Threshold by base weight
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Anthranilic acid, its esters, and its 30 kilograms.
salts.
(B) Benzyl cyanide........................ 1 kilogram.
(C) Ergonovine and its salts.............. 10 grams.
(D) Ergotamine and its salts.............. 20 grams.
(E) N-Acetylanthranilic acid, its esters, 40 kilograms.
and its salts.
(F) Norpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical 2.5 kilograms.
isomers, and salts of optical isomers.
(G) Phenylacetic acid, its esters, and its 1 kilogram.
salts.
(H) Phenylpropanolamine, its salts, 2.5 kilograms.
optical isomers, and salts of optical
isomers.
(I) Piperidine and its salts.............. 500 grams.
(J) Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical 1 kilogram.
isomers, and salts of optical isomers.
(K) 3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone.. 4 kilograms.
(L) Methylamine and its salts............. 1 kilogram.
(M) Ethylamine and its salts.............. 1 kilogram.
(N) Propionic anhydride................... 1 gram.
(O) Isosafrole............................ 4 kilograms.
(P) Safrole............................... 4 kilograms.
(Q) Piperonal............................. 4 kilograms.
(R) N-Methylephedrine, its salts, optical 1 kilogram.
isomers, and salts of optical isomers (N-
Methylephedrine).
(S) N-Methylpseudoephedrine, its salts, 1 kilogram.
optical isomers, and salts of optical
isomers.
(T) Hydriodic Acid........................ 1.7 kilograms (or 1 liter by
volume).
(U) Benzaldehyde.......................... 4 kilograms.
(V) Nitroethane........................... 2.5 kilograms.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

(ii) Notwithstanding the thresholds established in paragraphs
(f)(1)(i) and

[[Page 124]]

(g) of this section, the following thresholds will apply for the
following List I chemicals that are contained in drug products that are
regulated pursuant to Sec. 1300.02(b)(28)(i)(D) of this chapter
(thresholds for retail distributors and distributors required to report
under Sec. 1310.03(c) of this part are for a single transaction; the
cumulative threshold provision does not apply. All other distributions
are subject to the cumulative threshold provision.):

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chemical Threshold by weight
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, No threshold. All
and salts of optical isomers as the sole transactions regulated.
therapeutically significant medicinal
ingredient.
(B) Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers,
and salts of optical isomers in
combination with therapeutically
significant amounts of another medicinal
ingredient:
(1) Distributions by retail 24 grams.
distributors.
(2) Distributions by persons required 24 grams.
to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of
this part.
(3) All other domestic distributions 1 kilogram.
(other than paragraphs (f)(1)(ii)(B)
(1) and (2) of this section).
(4) Imports and Exports............... 1 kilogram
(C) Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical
isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(other than ordinary over-the-counter
products):
(1) Distributions by retail 9 grams, and sold in package
distributors. sizes of not more than 3
grams of pseudoephedrine
base.
(2) Distributions by persons required 9 grams, and sold in package
to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of sizes of not more than 3
this part. grams of pseudoephedrine
base.
(3) All other domestic distributions, 1 kilogram.
(other than paragraphs (f)(1)(ii)(C)
(1) and (2) of this section).
(4) Imports and Exports............... 1 kilogram.
(D) Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical
isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(ordinary over-the-counter products):
(1) Distributions by retail Exempt.
distributors.
(2) Distributions by persons required 9 grams, and sold in package
to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of sizes of not more than 3
this part. grams of pseudoephedrine
base.
(3) All other domestic distributions 1 kilogram.
(other than paragraphs (f)(1)(ii)(D)
(1) and (2) of this section).
(4) Imports and Exports............... 1 kilogram.
(E) Phenylpropanolamine, its salts,
optical isomers, and salts of optical
isomers (other than ordinary over-the-
counter products):
(1) Distributions by retail 9 grams, and sold in package
distributors. sizes of not more than 3
grams of
phenylpropanolamine base.
(2) Distributions by persons required 9 grams, and sold in package
to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of sizes of not more than 3
this part. grams of
phenylpropanolamine base.
(3) All other domestic distributions 2.5 kilograms.
(other than paragraphs (f)(1)(ii)(E)
(1) and (2) of this section).
(4) Imports and Exports............... 2.5 kilograms.
(F) Phenylpropanolamine, its salts,
optical isomers, and salts of optical
isomers (ordinary over-the-counter
products):
(1) Distributions by retail Exempt.
distributors.
(2) Distributions by persons required 9 grams, and sold in package
to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of sizes of not more than 3
this part. grams of
phenylpropanolamine base.
(3) All other domestic distributions 2.5 kilograms.
(other than paragraphs (f)(1)(ii)(F)
(1) and (2) of this section).
(4) Imports and Exports............... 2.5 kilograms.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

(2) List II Chemicals:
(i) Imports and Exports

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chemical Threshold by volume Threshold by weight
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Acetic anhydride................... 250 gallons........................ 1,023 kilograms.
(B) Acetone............................ 500 gallons........................ 1,500 kilograms.
(C) Benzyl chloride.................... N/A................................ 4 kilograms.
(D) Ethyl ether........................ 500 gallons........................ 1,364 kilograms.
(E) Potassium permanganate............. N/A................................ 500 kilograms.
(F) 2-Butanone (MEK)................... 500 gallons........................ 1,455 kilograms.

[[Page 125]]


(G) Toluene............................ 500 gallons........................ 1,591 kilograms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(ii) Domestic Sales

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chemical Threshold by volume Threshold by weight
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Acetic anhydride................... 250 gallons........................ 1,023 kilograms.
(B) Acetone............................ 50 gallons......................... 150 kilograms.
(C) Benzyl chloride.................... N/A................................ 1 kilogram.
(D) Ethyl ether........................ 50 gallons......................... 135.8 kilograms.
(E) Potassium permanganate............. N/A................................ 55 kilograms.
(F) 2-Butanone (MEK)................... 50 gallons......................... 145 kilograms.
(G) Toluene............................ 50 gallons......................... 159 kilograms.
(H) Iodine............................. N/A................................ 0.4 kilograms.
(I) Anhydrous Hydrogen chloride........ N/A................................ 0.0 kilograms.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(iii) The cumulative threshold is not applicable to domestic sales
of Acetone, 2-Butanone (MEK), and Toluene.
(iv) Exports, Transshipments and International Transactions to
Designated Countries as Set Forth in Sec. 1310.08(b).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Threshold by
Chemical volume Threshold by weight
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Hydrochloric acid.......... 50 gallons
(1) Anhydrous Hydrogen .................. 27 kilograms.
chloride.
(B) Sulfuric acid.............. 50 gallons
------------------------------------------------------------------------

(v) Export and International Transactions to Designated Countries,
and Importations for Transshipment or Transfer to Designated Countries

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Threshold by
Chemical volume Threshold by weight
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A) Methyl Isobutyl Ketone 500 gallons....... 1523 kilograms.
(MIBK).
(B) Reserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

(g) For listed chemicals for which no thresholds have been
established, the size of the transaction is not a factor in determining
whether the transaction meets the definition of a regulated transaction
as set forth in Sec. 1300.02(b)(28) of this chapter. All such
transactions, regardless of size, are subject to recordkeeping and
reporting requirements as set forth in this part and notification
provisions as set forth in part 1313 of this chapter.
(1) Listed chemicals for which no thresholds have been established:
(i) Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers and salts of optical
isomers
(ii) Red phosphorus
(iii) White phosphorus (Other names: Yellow Phosphorus)
(iv) Hypophosphorous acid and its salts
(v) gamma-Butyrolactone (Other names include: GBL; Dihydro-2(3H)-
furanone; 1,2-Butanolide; 1,4-Butanolide; 4-Hydroxybutanoic acid
lactone; gamma-hydroxybutyric acid lactone)
(2) [Reserved]
(h) The thresholds and conditions in paragraphs (f) and (g) of this
section will apply to transactions involving regulated chemical
mixtures. For purposes of determining whether the weight or volume of a
chemical mixture meets or exceeds the applicable quantitative threshold,
the following rules apply:
(1) For chemical mixtures containing List I chemicals or List II
chemicals other than those in paragraph (h)(2) of this section, the
threshold is determined by the weight of the listed chemical in the
chemical mixture.
(2) For the List II chemicals acetone, ethyl ether, 2-butanone,
toluene, and methyl isobutyl ketone, the threshold is determined by the
weight of the entire chemical mixture.
(3) If two or more listed chemicals are present in a chemical
mixture, and the quantity of any of these chemicals

[[Page 126]]

equals or exceeds the threshold applicable to that chemical, then the
transaction is regulated.


I wouldn't buy in person or order a List 1 chemical because the seller is required by the DEA
to record the buyer's personal information.

[Edited on 2007/8/25 by MadHatter]




From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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chemrox
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[*] posted on 25-8-2007 at 19:43


let's have a little perspective; having a user name "freebasing@hotmail.com" and spending 2500 on safrole is a little over the top ... I don't see a way to avoid being on various lists if you want to do anything the least bit complicated .. carbon tet is a CA precursor for example and P is awfully useful at times .. I like to use a little I2 to start Grignards .. some of the lists make no sense .. propionic anhydride? I think its the totallity of what one is doing that makes for scrutiny....what I object most to is the way these regs can be used to shut people up or punish people for what they say. Recall they pulled Sasha Shulgin's licenses and raided his lab after he published PiKHAL. We need a Libertarian revolution now!
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