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tito-o-mac
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The head of Scotland Yard's counter-terrorism command said, "It is obvious that if the device had detonated there could have been serious injury or
loss of life."[3] However, the device could not have detonated, because it lacked an oxidizer, according to a columnist for The Register (UK).[12]
This information may have originated from an interview of former CIA counter-terrorism officer Larry Johnson, conducted by Keith Olbermann of MSNBC on
29 June. [13]
Case closed long time ago
[Edited on 4-7-2007 by tito-o-mac]
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nitro-genes
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Hmm, "dark avenger.bat" sounds exciting, but no thanks. Lol, even my little sister can do better than that...
Comparing a fuel depot or train with an atombomb is just blatant sensationalism. The average american cornfield may contain more than ten times that
amount of energy, though nobody minds walking trough it right?
[Edited on by nitro-genes]
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JohnWW
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070703/ap_on_re_eu/britain_terr...
British terror probe focuses on doctors
By BEN McCONVILLE, Associated Press Writer
GLASGOW, Scotland - The fast-moving investigation into failed car bombings in Glasgow and London has swept up at least six physicians and a medical
student, officials said Tuesday, including a doctor seized at an Australian airport with a one-way ticket. Many of the men had roots outside Britain
— with ties to Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and India — and worked together at hospitals in Scotland or England, officials said.
None of the plotters arrested so far is named on U.S. terror watch lists that identify potential suspects, according to a senior American
counterterror official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
Staff at Glasgow's Royal Alexandra Hospital said Tuesday the suspect badly burned in the failed attack on Glasgow airport was Khalid Ahmed, a Lebanese
doctor who both worked there — as did the Iraqi arrested with him — and was being treated there under police guard. One of the doctors from India,
27-year-old Muhammad Haneef, was arrested late Monday at the international airport in the Australian city of Brisbane, the Australian attorney general
said.
Haneef, who was being held under counterterrorism laws, worked in 2005 at Halton Hospital in England, hospital spokesman Mark Shone said. A
26-year-old man arrested Saturday in Liverpool also practiced there, Shone said. "The doctor was regarded by the hospital as, in many senses, a model
citizen — excellent references and so on," said Queensland Premier Peter Beattie. Police in Glasgow said two more men — aged 25 and 28 — were
arrested Sunday in residences at Glasgow's Royal Alexandra Hospital, where staff identified them as a junior doctor and a medical student.
Amid increased security at British airports, train stations and on city streets, two men attempting to buy gas canisters at an industrial estate were
arrested in Blackburn, northern England, under anti-terrorism laws. Police said it was too early to determine if the men were linked to the London and
Glasgow attacks. Authorities said police searched at least 19 locations at a time of already high vigilance before the anniversary of the suicide
bombings in London that killed 52 people on July 7, 2005.
In the latest attacks, two car bombs failed to explode in central London on Friday, and two men rammed a Jeep Cherokee loaded with gas cylinders into
the entrance of Glasgow International Airport and then set it on fire Saturday. The British government security official said investigators were
working on one theory that the same people may have driven the explosives-laden cars into London and the blazing SUV in Glasgow.
Bomb experts carried out a second controlled explosion on a car at the Royal Alexandra Hospital hospital Monday, after a similar blast Sunday. Police
said the car was linked to the investigation, but no explosives were found. Authorities identified Bilal Abdulla, an Iraqi doctor who worked at the
Glasgow hospital, as the other man arrested at the airport.
A man arrested late Saturday on a highway in central England was also a physician, Mohammed Jamil Abdelqader Asha, police said. A Jordanian official
said Asha was of Palestinian descent and carried a Jordanian passport. Azmi Mahafzah, Asha's instructor at the University of Jordan medical school,
said he knew Asha during his studies and training from 1998 to 2004. "I didn't even have the impression that he was religious," he told The Associated
Press. "He is not a fanatic type of person." The family of Asha's wife, Marwa, who British authorities said was also arrested, denied she had links to
terrorism. "Marwa is a very educated person and she read many British novels to know England better, a country she liked so much," her father, Yunis
Da'na, told The Associated Press in Jordan.
Police were also investigating an attack on an Asian news agent early Tuesday in Glasgow, in which a car was rammed into the shop and caught fire or
set ablaze, and the torching of a real estate office next to a mosque near Edinburgh on Monday. Officers have yet to establish if either attack was
racially motivated, but Osama Saeed, the Muslim Association of Britain's Scottish spokesman, said tension was increasing.
[Edited on 4-7-07 by JohnWW]
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franklyn
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Very large natural gas explosions have been ( fortunately ) rarer than
incidents of large conventional explosives such as that Thiokol plant
that made Ammonium perchlorate just two decades back. Just a year
later , a gas pipe in Siberia was breached and it vented uncontrolled
for much of the day. In the cold with gas being heavier than air and
with little if any wind , explosive concentration spread out many miles
over a wide area until it found a point of ignition. The descriptions
compared it to an atomic blast.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,957976-3,00...
Sidebar _
To this day it is not known what caused the explosion of Tunguska
in 1908.
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/TunguskaEvent.html
More detailed => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event
Claims that this was a comet and such don't explain the absence of
meteoroic artifacts not the least of which is , there's no crater. Meteor
Crater in Arizona was made by an object similar in size to what is
supposed caused the siberian event , we know , because it's remains
are there.
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/SIC/impact_cratering/Enviropages/...
Yet there is no comparison that can be made between the two sites.
So what caused it ?
An alternative view _
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/deepimpact-02q.html
That large gas deposits can be belched forth without forewarning is well
documented as this remarkable cataclysm occuring in 1986 in Cameroon.
http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/Nyos.html
.
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nitro-genes
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The eyewitness reports mention blue-white light, almost as bright as the sun, which rules out a methane/air explosion as it can't produce temperatures
high enough. I find it highly unlikely for someone to make up the blue-white light observation in 1908, when nuclear explosions were totally unknown.
The blast patterns suggest a far smaller and energy dense object as the cause as well. I found the most plausible to envision a rather brittle astroid
hitting the dense earth atmosphere upon which it would disintegrate into a fine dust, instantly transmitting it's kinetic energy to the surrounding
air in the form of heat and pressure.
The connection to terrorism kind of eludes me though.  (Although I agree this
much more interesting stuff than the science-fiction stories in the newspapers lately)
[Edited on by nitro-genes]
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franklyn
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This is the Energetic Materials subforum and this thread ( for the most part )
explores the range of fuel / air combustion. That this has appeal in
unconventional warfare is to me a side issue that more properly belongs in
Legal and Societal Issues.
Mahatma Gandhi , and Martin Luther King instigated political change without
invoking violence, yet both ended up victimized by violence. If prospective
" terrorists " desire to sacrifice themselves for their cause , given that their
end can be the same , which is the more honorable path ?
The events I related from memory before are detailed here below.
The Morton Thiokol plant explosion is often seen on television and is
well known though there was only one casualty. Such was not the case
in this more recent Ammonium Nitrate storage warehouse detonation.
Excerpted from pg 6 of this United Nations document _
http://www.unece.org/env/documents/2002/cep/ac.10/cep.ac.10....
In 2001, a huge explosion ripped through a warehouse in which granular
ammonium nitrate was stored at the AZF fertiliser factory in an industrial zone
on the outskirts of Toulouse, France, leaving a 50 m diameter crater more than
10 m deep. Thirty-one people were reported dead, including some outside the
plant, and 2,442 were injured. More than 500 homes were made uninhabitable
and almost 11 000 pupils were kept at home after some 85 schools and colleges
were damaged. Windows in the city centre 3 km away were blown out.
Comparatively Gas / Air explosions are at least equivalent to that of
conventional explosives in the scope of their general destuctiveness.
Excerpted from this Health and Safety Executive publication _
http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/hid/spc/spctg26.pdf
1989 Siberia, Russia – Engineers in charge of an LPG pipeline noticed
a sudden drop in pressure at the pumping end of the pipeline. It had
been reported that there had been leaking for several days and that a
heavy smell of gas had been reported a few hours before the
explosions and fire. Instead of investigating the trouble, engineers
responded by increasing the pumping rate in order to maintain the
required pressure in the pipeline. The actual leakage point was about
890 miles down stream between two towns, where the pipeline was
installed about ½ mile away from the side of a railway. Some hours
later, two passenger trains, travelling in opposite directions approached
the area. Their turbulence mixed up LPG mist and vapour with the
overlying air to form a flammable cloud section. One or the other train
sparked off the cloud. Two explosions took place in quick succession
followed by a wall of fire that was about 1 mile wide, which raced down
the railroad tracks in both directions. 462 people killed and 706
injured.
Anti LNG transport activism and why you should care
http://www.scfs-la.org/mempubs/taylor/LNG-BH-long.pdf
Safety issues subject to continued study and congressional review
http://www.ncseonline.org/nle/crsreports/05mar/RL32073.pdf
In 1978 Tarragona Spain
A tanker truck overturned ejecting Propylene aerosol onto a crowded
picnic ground , then ignited , incinerating everything within sight.
( I can tell you they still talk about this one there )
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,946862,00.h...
In 1992 Guadalajara Mexico
The fumes of gasoline leaking from a pipeline inside a sewer
explosively ignite cratering 7 miles of urban street
( How much dynamite would it take to do that ? )
http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=356
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_explosion_in_Guadalajara
Technical analysis of gas explosions
http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/hid/din/539.pdf
.
[Edited on 8-7-2007 by franklyn]
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The_Davster
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haha
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/02/terror_idiocy_outbre...
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franklyn
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@ The_Davester
Very true , they must be toning it down.
Reminds me of the monks who self immolated
to protest the Vietnam War.
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nitro-genes
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"Why, it's almost as if suicide bombing was a fairly dumb tactic. The 7/7 bombers seem to have been one of very few terror groups in the UK who were
competent enough to make explosives and weren't under plod/spook surveillance, and now they're all dead..."
Hahaha, good one!
Natural selection at work it seems...
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Eclectic
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Eradicating "terror" one suicide bomber at a time.
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tito-o-mac
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NEUROLOGIST TERRORISTS? They'd rather have their brains undergo surgery than planning to blow people up!
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tito-o-mac
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Hey all, maybe you should check out the drano and gasoline explosion topic in this forum: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8069
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franklyn
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Enough of this already , I had thought there might be skill and ingenuity
involved , blame the preposterous network reporting of the incident.
The following is a compendium borrowing excerpts from these two articles _
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/29/more_fear_biscuits_p...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/02/terror_idiocy_outbre...
To recap: an exceptionally incompetent group of troublemakers ( it would be
unseemly charitable to call them terrorists ) attempted and failed to pull off
what must be the most pathetic terror plot ever. Even if this clusterfuck could
have succeded it would have been difficult to distinguish from a minor accident.
These people had no actual explosives , and were apparently too lazy and
ignorant to learn how to make them. Real terrorists are hard to come by , so
clowns and stooges with harebrained schemes end up doing the bin Laden
perp walk. The car containing the device was observed moving erratically and
abandoned by its driver after crashing it , then running off , as would a true
professional . You and I are more likely to have been killed accidentally by his
lousy driving than intentionally by this Beavis and Butthead car bomb.
Apparently in their warped frenzy to do harm the conspirators believed they
could enhance the intended fireball and augment the imaginary carnage by
including nails inside the car. Of course if these were propelled with any vigor
at all they would end up perforating the car and nothing more. If there are
nails flying through the air I would be very grateful to have a car between
the flying nails and myself , which these " terrorists " thoughtfully provided.
One can sympathize with bomb disposal technicians who must be feeling very
slighted , having spent considerable time and effort training and dedicated
their working life to the disposal of dangerous explosive artifacts , only to be
faced now with the imminent threat of exploding party poppers. I would be
seriously pissed too.
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tito-o-mac
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" You and I are more likely to have been killed accidentally by his
lousy driving than intentionally by this Beavis and Butthead car bomb."
That's funny
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JohnWW
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The most recent news on them said that one of the two Muslim doctors arrested at Glasgow Airport has been charged with conspiracy to cause explosions
in public places in respect of both the London and Glasgow failed car bombs, while the other doctor arrested at Glasgow Airport is still too ill with
burns to be charged or appear in a Court. Attempted arson is also a likely charge. The offense, if they are convicted of it, can carry up to a life
sentence. There is no word of any charges being brought against the other 5 Muslim doctors and medical technicians detained in England and Scotland,
or the one detained in Queensland, Australia. These latter have now been detained without charges for a week - something which would be quite
unacceptable in many other countries including mine.
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tito-o-mac
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Those stupid fools must have probably read it from the anarchist crap or something else.
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quicksilver
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These are educated (theoretically) individuals.....but they put together absolute crap! Can you imagine them working on an injury you have?
"Ahhh, I see we have a broken femur from the x-ray here...." "Let's go stone some women and think this over....."
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Rosco Bodine
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Another fine testimonial concerning the level of intellect to which radical islam would appeal and have influence ....
on the one hand , absent such a contaminant to the intellect you have a brain surgeon , a medical doctor ....
someone operating on a higher than average plane mentally in the normal course of daily business .
Season that mind with the superstitious fanatacism
and allure which only a false religion and death cult could provide and what is the product of that defiled and devalued and diminished , polluted
mind ,
but another wasted life of a previously rational person
devolved into another braindead jihadi ....yes another regular Einstein and fiery emmisary of the wahabi way ,
the damn primitives who are a notch below a cannibal
since at least for them , they never knew any better .
Islam is the closest thing to a computer virus for the human mind , that the world has ever seen . And the crash of all reasoning into murderous
chaos seems to be
the predictable consequence of what absolutely is a
contagious mental disease .
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DrP
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The ring leader had clained asylum here a few years ago! BS - How many of the other 10's of thousands of so called asylum seekers are here to to blow
things up? If it's half a percent then thats a very big problem. Thankfully these 4 scum have been caught though. This will however cost the tax
payer thousands now to keep them in a luxury
cell for life so we don't breach their human rights.
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tito-o-mac
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They called these cars "packed with explosives"! That is utterly nonsense! How could they ever call the flaming car which rammed into Glasgow Airport
a car bomb? The media must kicking up some sort of sandstorm here. These people are doctors or surgeons, looks like hiring highly intellectual people
may not work all the time. They're probably rich enough to purchase these spanking new Mercedes, then at least conserve their money on something else,
instead of wasting your money on an attempt to blow something up!
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unionised
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"Islam is the closest thing to a computer virus for the human mind , that the world has ever seen . And the crash of all reasoning into murderous
chaos seems to be
the predictable consequence of what absolutely is a
contagious mental disease . "
You wouldn't get Christians doing anything like that.
Oh, hang on, yes sorry, you did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
It's not Islam that the problem, it's religion because all religions seem to rely on the suspension of reason.
While we are at it it makes no sense to assume that all imigrants (asylum seekers or otherwise) are potential terrorists any more than it makes sense
to assume that all the "natives" of a country are going to be nice. Apart from anything else that sort of extrapolation is poor science. It's also
exactly the sort of sloppy thinking that religion encourages.
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Polverone
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Guess what kind of forbidden thread this appears to be transforming into.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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