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Sauron
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http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_42a.html
This is Reference Three on goblin's own citation for Ballotechnics
It's an article on NUCLEAR SCAMS AND HOAXES
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Sauron
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Osmium 187 is a stable naturally occuring isotope of osmium with a relative abdundance of 1.4% It is NON radioactive. There is no isotope or nuclide
Os187m
Pt186 is a synthetic isotope of platinum with a half life of 2.2 hours. Do the aithmetic, goblin. How much is left after 24 hours?
0.02% that's how much.
There is no Pt186m
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goblin
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true
but putting the hoax of red mercury aside and radioactivity, there is no doubt ballotechnic material will enhance a explosive.
The performance of an explosive is measured in several catagorys, one of them being heat produced. Since all ballotechnics produce a great ammount of
energy when shocked most of it being excess heat there is no doubt in my mind it will boost the V.O.D.
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Sauron
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There is no doubt?
Why should anyone believe anything you say?
You are a bs artist.
Document your claims from the peer reviewed scientific literature.
Or shut up.
So far you have done nothing but waste this forum's time and space.
| Quote: | Originally posted by goblin
true
but putting the hoax of red mercury aside and radioactivity, there is no doubt ballotechnic material will enhance a explosive.
The performance of an explosive is measured in several catagorys, one of them being heat produced. Since all ballotechnics produce a great ammount of
energy when shocked most of it being excess heat there is no doubt in my mind it will boost the V.O.D. |
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quicksilver
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@-goblin: The 1st post of this whole thread is questionable. "Roasted" cinnabar (it's proper spelling) is the standard industrial method of isolating
Hg. What are you talking about?
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Sauron
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Don't waste your breath. He's some kid having us all on, talking through his ass.
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not_important
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Ballotechnics mostly deals with processes that do not create much change in volume, while explosives are greatly interested in changes in volume.
Ballotechnics is more in the arena of materials science than of explosives, although the propagation of explosions may involve the same region of
shockwave interaction with solids or liquids.
The field of research having to do with metastable nuclear isomers and induced gamma emission is also real. However it has little to do with
ballotechnics, as the triggering events are high energy photons, not shock waves. If IGE can be made to happen in a self-propagating mode and the
nuclear isomer produced in sufficient concentration, it would enter into the realm of explosives; the energy densities are very roughly 5 orders of
magnitude greater than in chemical explosives. And if those conditions can be met, then the issue of non-fission pumped fusion bombs does arise. But
it should be noted that creating the nuclear isomers takes some rather large, high power equipment.
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Sauron
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Large and heavy equipment is an understatement.
A more accurate statement would be massive and highly costly accelerators and research reactors of the fast flux type that are overseen by national
nuclear authorities and the IAEA.
The term nuclear istmers is erroneous. You doubtless mean isotopes or nuclides. Isomers are variations in chemical structure not nuclear structure.
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franklyn
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Something familiar , something peculiar
A funny thing happened on the way to the forum 
On Grasers
http://unintentional-irony.blogspot.com/2007/01/gamma-laser....
Thread on intermetallic reactions
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2202
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2202&a...
Cited by Polverone post 23-3-2005
http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.pyrotechnics/msg/ab744abee...
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halogen
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You're out of yer element Sauron. (Pun not intended) There are nuclear isomers. Isotopes are variations on neutron number, likewise Isomers
are variations on energy. An atom that is in a higher energy state is excited, "metastable" is the term. THIS is nuclear isomerism. A quick search on
google yields this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_state
A nuclear isomer is denoted by a lower case (miniscule) m. Different states of excitation are denoted by 1 or 2 after the m, if needed. Hence Os187m
and Pt186m. Of course though there is no Pt186m that I can find, there are various metastable (Or nuclear isomers of) isotopes of platinum. These can
be found here, at a seemingly reputable site: http://ie.lbl.gov/education/parent/Pt_iso.htm
Also, for Osmium, http://ie.lbl.gov/education/parent/Os_iso.htm Though I can find no 187m, there are of course other nuclear isomers.
[edit] Isomers not isotopes. Silly me[edit]
[Edited on 15-8-2007 by halogen]
F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat
with the evolution of chlorine.
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Sauron
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Of course there are, just not the ones that goblin floated here, which are EXACTLY the nonexistant ones that were involved in dozens if not hundreds
of attempted nuclear scams and hoaxes according to the NTI webpage I cited - which was a reference on the site goblin cited although he apparently
never bothered to read it.
I have Table of Isotopes, Isotope Explorer, and its databases local to my PC, and there are no Os187m and Pt186m.
As I said above, Os187 is a stable natural isotope of low abundance, while Pt186 is synthetic with a short half life that makes it useless, it
disappears into decay daughter(s) within 24 hours. t1/2 = 140 minutes. Metastable forms of either of these are not known, LBL's Isotopes Lab keeps
those databases current.
If goblin was so interested in this subject why didn't he look this up himself? It is available free on the Net. And not only from the US, the
University of Lund, Sweden is LBL's partner on Isotope Explorer. The hardback edition of ToI with CD ROM is published by Wiley. There are no secret
isotopes or nuclides or "nuclear isomers" And no matter what Wilkepedia says: the term nuclear isomer is not used in the literature of nuclear
science, that I have ever seen, metastable isotopes are metastable isotopes. There are many of them including the Hf one that is the prime candidate
for gamma excitation. There just isn't much of it in existence yet.
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Sauron
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The isotope does not occur in nature and is the product of an accelerator, which makes it hugely expensive. The idea of making a weapon out of it is
ludicrous.
That quote is from your first citation, franklyn. It refers to the Hafnium isotope in a UT experiment that may or may not have worked in 1999. My
point is that the author seems to have overlooked the fact that if his logic is applied to plutonium-239, we might all be speaking Japanese.
While U235 does occur naturally, Pu239 was made synthetically and yes it was and is hugely expensive (the pit for Fat Man was about a billion 1945
dollars.) Was that ludicrous?
So at that point I quit reading. RPI is not a first rate institution. Bear in mind that there is also always competition for research money and this
is not a zero sum game. Nevertheless the cause of science is never advanced by belittling an entire field of research. The effort to induce gamma
excitation is a lot more broadly based than DARPA or US academia.
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halogen
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My apologies for the misunderstanding. Though if ballotechnic technology (likely the hafnium substance aforementioned) can provide a gamma ray
laser... That would be an absolutely devastating weapon. Now of course because one cannot reflect yrays, a continuous ray must be used instead of
pulsed, which would be more powerful . Hmm. How could a y-ray laser be constructed?
Most materials are transparent!
F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat
with the evolution of chlorine.
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Sauron
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Who said anything about Hf176m being ballotechnic?
Certainly not me.
I doubt there has ever been enough of it on hand to find out. I have never heard any such claim advanced. The IGE at UT Austin in 1999 has been
disputed, there was no control and not even the same group could replicate the result. Their input device was a dental x-ray, how droll. Hence my
remark, mabe/maybe not. The result is in an indeterminate state like Schrodinger's cat.
As far as I can see ballotechnics is a real field of thermodynamics of solids and liquids in shock waves but it has little directly to do with either
conventional, much less nuclear explosives, or radioactive materials.
By the way I saw something about a claim that "red mercury" was allegedly really Li6. This is preposterous. The fictitious red mercury is supposed to
have a d 20 g/cc, while Li, even its heavier isotope Li6 is one of the lightest elements. I do not know the exact density of Li6 but look, it is just
Li with 4 extra neutrons so how frigging dense can it be? Certainly a far far cry from something in the same class as Os or W.
[Edited on 16-8-2007 by Sauron]
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not_important
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| Quote: | | The term nuclear istmers is erroneous. You doubtless mean isotopes or nuclides. Isomers are variations in chemical structure not nuclear structure.
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No, I meant nuclear isomers
180Ta half life 8 hours
180mTa 0.012% of natural tantalum, half life > 1.2 x 10^13 years. Decays to 180Ta with a release of 75 keV gammas
Same number of protons and neutrons, different properties, therefore isomers
242mAm looks interesting, not that much of it could be made.
http://www.orau.org/ria/ria05/lectures/Grzywacz_1.pdf
http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v1/n2/full/nphys150.html
http://arxiv.org/abs/nucl-th/0511035
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v442/n7105/full/nature0...
http://www.nd.edu/~cgs12/abstract/Yang_Sun/YangSun.pdf
http://www.llnl.gov/str/JulAug05/pdfs/07_05.4.pdf
The astrophysics guys are interested in them, as isomers can affect supernova behavior.
As for 'grasers', there are lasers that work without mirrors, such as superfluorescent nitrogen lasers http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/lasers/Lasers...
Grasers are SFAIK still theory, or weaponry in simulation gaming. I think there's been soft X-ray laser action observed. Much of the hard x-ray and
gamma laser interest came out the military, particularly Reagan's SDI boondoggle. What's actually been accomplished might not be known, being wrapped
up in military secrecy. It's also a bit hard to fully test devices that are intended to be pumped by a nuclear explosion.
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goblin
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Ni and AL
here is one simple compound that is ballotechnic.
I am a bit disturbed by sarons posts. I did not mean to claim anything. I simply did not know how real or fake Red Mercury was. I thought perhaps I
would be enlightened ..now I know. I hope I did not come across as a preacher of farce material, that’s not what I wanted. Saron and I seem to be on
a diffrent page, I do not care too much about Red Mercury; just ballotechnics in general. I understand now Red Mercury is fake. Lets move on
I did however hope to share a new topic .
Here is a short article on ballotechnic compound of Ni and Al.
Would oxides of these metals have any effect on the reaction?!...I will find out tomorrow 
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=n...
[Edited on by goblin]
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gregxy
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Well
I could not read the full article but I did not see any mention of ballotecnics. You could probably mix lots of things togeather and get them to
react if you apply a strong enough shock. What difference does it make if no gas is released? I don't see what the point is unless you want to use the
process to synthesize some interesting crystaline solid, for example trying to grow diamond but using explosives to compress graphite.
The earlier confusion came about from confusing nuclear with chemical reactions.
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Sauron
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The earlier confusion came from confusing fantasy with reality.
Red mercury does not exist in the form and with the properties stated
Osmium 187m does not exist.
Platinum 186m does not exist.
All three imaginary materials are well documented scams and hoaxes of the 1980s and 1990s.
Since they do not exist, they have nothing to do with ballotechnics.
You might as well start a thread on phlogiston. At least it would have some historical basis in the canon of scientific errors.
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halogen
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Well... Technically phlogiston theory is still workable. It just has a few bits that are not as easy to believe as other theories. Basically, it all
works out if you accept that Phlogiston has negative mass.
Sauron, you are an arrogant smart ass as Mr. Xenoid so colourfully has put. Please stop pushing the fact that Red mercury etc. are not real.
It has been established. Thanks.
F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat
with the evolution of chlorine.
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Sauron
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"Arrogant is as arrogant does" - Forrest Gump
I will damn well say whatever I feel like, sirrah, and I'd appreciate a little more courtesy from you or anyone else.
goblin did his best to foist a fraud off on this forum, and has been called for it. Someone characterize that as confusion between nuclear vs chemical
reactions. Bullshit! I responded and for that you call me an arrogant smart ass. If you were foolish enough to say that to my face you would need some
dental work and perhaps some attention from an orthopedist.
It has also been well established that ballotechnics has little if anything to do with explosives, nothing at all to do with nuclear weapons, and zero
to do with terrorism. It is a rather obscure branch of materials science.
Meanwhile Lavoisier is laughing at your optinion that the phlogiston theory is still workable.
[Edited on 17-8-2007 by Sauron]
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Xenoid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
goblin did his best to foist a fraud off on this forum, and has been called for it.
[Edited on 17-8-2007 by Sauron] |
Oh! For God's sake! How pompous!
This is a forum for "home" chemists and amateur experimenters.
Goblin started an interesting thread about a little known topic (one which you clearly knew little about) and you come down on him like a "tonne" of
bricks!
Clearly the tropical heat is getting to you.....
Xenoid
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Sauron
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No. Goblin started a hogwash thread about bogus, nonexistant weapons of mass destruction materials having NOTHING to do with home chemistry or amateur
science.
However, ANYONE with an ounce of common sense and the ability to crack a reference book, could see right through the complete nonsense of everything
he put forward.
We are left to conclude that either goblin is a gullible fool or he took us all to be gullible fools.
Do you think imaginary isotopes and phony red mercury are "interesting"?
This is not a nuclear weapons forum and nuclear weapons are not amateur science or home chemistry - David Hahn to the contrary.
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goblin
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Ballotechnics is not hogwash....I am not going to argue anyfurther as it has no place here. But I do want to say, being I did not know Red Mercury was
fake I thought I would start out the ballotechnic topic with that. But now that I have looked more into it I am trying to divert the thread away from
that material and tword more reasonable material.
Sorry
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halogen
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| Quote: | | goblin did his best to foist a fraud off on this forum, and has been called for it. |
goblin didn't know enough about what he was talking about. Or perhaps he was the victim of bad resources and information. Here is the first post:
| Quote: | I am sure all of you heard of red mercury or Hg2Sb2O7...whether or not it exists is left to conjecture for the moment. But are there not other
materials that have a ballotechnic nature?
Ballotechnics as some of you may or may not know is a material that when subjected to shock (usualy heat or shockwave) emits ridiculously massive
amounts of energy, most of it being heat. I do know of some isotopes that are ballotechnic in nature. Those being: ,osmium-187m, platinum-186m. These
nuclear isomers will exhibit ballotechnic properties under certain circumstances.
Now we all understand there properties in enhancing nuclear reactions but could they not also be used to enhance the output on a conventional
explosive. Since the power of an explosive is based primarily on v.o.d. and heat produced. Ballotechnic material radiates intense heat possibly way
way more than a thermite reaction, I assume they would also accelerate the v.o.d. Under the definition of a ballotechnic material wouldn’t
thermite also be considered one too?
Does anyone know of any synth for ballotechnic material?
I have read some for cinnibar but like I said red mercury seems to be a farse as of now. |
This sounds like someone who just didn't know what they were talking about, or very little. Certainly it was not malicious intent as you blindly
accuse, which is in anycase for the mods to decide, and thankfully not you.
Ballotechnics, contrary to your objections, is a real and interesting field that is related (in some way or another albeit) to that mentioned in
goblin's post. Though the three materials originally brought up have been shown to be nonexistant, which you have "mentioned" numerous times, other
ballotechnic materials (nuclear or chemical) do exist, and are worthy of discussion. And though the original premise was shown to be
bullshit, it did stir up some very interesting topics in their own right, as well as bring up ballotechnics itself. Which is real, need I
remind you.
| Quote: | | I will damn well say whatever I feel like, sirrah, and I'd appreciate a little more courtesy from you or anyone else. |
And you have a perfect right to spout whatever accusations and such. I just happen to disagree. Its like that quote that everyone thinks is from
voltaire but isn't... "I disagree with what you say, but I would fighgt to the death for your right to say it"
| Quote: | | Meanwhile Lavoisier is laughing at your optinion that the phlogiston theory is still workable. |
The essence of scientific theories is that they can compete, so that people can gain better understanding of things for what they truly are. If you
are so biased that you wouldn't even hear out a simple little theory... What use would science as opposed to belief be to you anyway?
"Do you think imaginary isotopes and phony red mercury are "interesting"?"
Not necessarily, but the topics that are thusly brought forth certainly are. Though on a side note, Einstein did say "Imagination is more important
than knowledge".
"If you were foolish enough to say that to my face you would need some dental work and perhaps some attention from an orthopedist."
I appreciate the physical threat; it lets me know that you think you're serious.
But seriously. Isn't that a little over the top? Couldn't you just give me the evil eye instead, "Sauron"?
Come on, lighten up. "To each his own" remember?
EDIT: Damn, I really botched those quote boxes... Thats why I prefer " and "...
[Edited on 17-8-2007 by halogen]
F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat
with the evolution of chlorine.
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Sauron
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We can agree that goblin may be clueless anyway.
Goblin, ballotechnics is not hogwash, just ballotechnics in every detail as you misrepresented it.
No, thermite is NOT a ballotechnic material as thermite is NOT initiated by shock waves, it is initiated by a significant amount of heat input
Enough! Time! Wasted!
As to competing theories, phlogiston as theory has been deader than a dodo for something more than a century and a half. I do not see phlogiston in
the Periodic Table, I can buy a tank of compressed oxygen but not compressed phlogiston, no one teached the phlogiston theory except perhaps as an
example of error, and I daresay that oxygen is no longer a competing theory but a tangible FACT which leaves no room for phlogiston the theory to
linger in any form.
Or perhaps you regard the theory that the sun revolves around the earth as viable, as well? Or that the earth is flat?
At some point the body of evidence supporting one "theory" achieves criticality and the theory becomes law. Competing theories then fade into well
deserved obscurity.
[Edited on 18-8-2007 by Sauron]
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