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evil_lurker
National Hazard
Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
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Mood: On the wagon again.
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The thing behind the graduate is a 1L jacked reaction flask. Got it off Ebay for $65 along with a freebie 4 neck head.
It looks like the answer to the problem is going to be adding warmish hot water, seperating in a funnel, and distilling, which ain't exactly ideal
considering the EtOH azeotrope.
As an expirement, 1000ml E85 was added to 1000ml of water. After allowing to seperate for 20 minutes, exactly 175ml of gasoline was recovered.
I'm going to distill it this afternoon and see what I get... hopefully it will clean it up some.. there is this really rank smell of "rotting potato"
and gasoline left over after seperation.
I really need a bigger reflux column (around 500mm) and flask in 29/42 joint for doing EtOH distillations but that will have to wait until I can come
up with some more fundage.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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Eclectic
National Hazard
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You could try extracting your 50% Ethanol fraction several times with a small quantity of VM&P naphtha before distilling to remove residual low
boiling hydrocarbons.
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Antwain
Hazard to Others
Posts: 252
Registered: 21-7-2007
Location: Australia
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What exactly is the goal of extracting the EtOH?
Never one to discourage experimentation...but, i think this may be barking up a useless tree. I can't see this being an economical route to ethanol,
even in countries where methylated spirits contain MeOH. And I wouldnt want to put stuff that had been anywhere near mineral acids into my car.... If
you think ethanol is bad just see what H2SO4 will do to the engine. 
Also, you know that olefins (AFAIK) dissolve in conc. sulfuric acid and possibly visa versa. I believe it involves addition across the double bond.
Hydrolysis will then probably??? give alcohols.
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evil_lurker
National Hazard
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Location: United States of Elbonia
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Mood: On the wagon again.
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The goal of the EtOH is suitable feedstock for conversion into diethyl ether.
Taxes on food grade pure grain alcohol run $27 per gallon making it prohibitively expensive. Common off the shelf hardware store denatured usually
contains 49% MeOH so that is out of the question as well. Specially denatured is even more of a rip off, usually they want taxes and hazmat shipping
fees.
If only 1.5 liters of good clean EtOH could be extracted from a gallon of E85 that costs $3, then it would be great.
I'm not sure if it would be worth it to extract the low boiling fraction. 100ml of the heads fraction from the 1.375L was cut and added to water.
Approx 12ml of low boiling hydrocarbons was seperated out. Its interesting to note that the condenser was dripping even before the temp hit 50ºC.
There also seems to be some sort of azeotrope from 75-77.5ºC
So far I've managed to distill off about 500ml of 2750ml water/E85 having a boiling point less than 79ºC by going veeeerrrryyyy slowly. Which is OK
since there ain't much babysitting it... the still is pretty much able to be left unattended since I'm using a heating mantle and so the heat stays
rock solid steady.
I figure after I catch 2L or so, I'll carbon filter it, redistill and try to get a liter of azeotrope, then run over molecular sieves till anhydrous.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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Antwain
Hazard to Others
Posts: 252
Registered: 21-7-2007
Location: Australia
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Surely seperating MeOEt from Et2O is not that hard. Me2O is a low bp. gas, and if you only want it as a solvent then some MeOEt dissolved in the Et2O
will not present a problem... Its got to be easier..?
Also are you sure that only EtOH and not MeOH, PrOH or iPrOH etc will be present in petrol, which is usually a complex concoction.
Edit- and at $3/gallon, perhaps you could send some my way.... over here its AU$1.40/L and I would dread to buy petrol in europe
[Edited on 27-10-2007 by Antwain]
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not_important
International Hazard
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Registered: 21-7-2006
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Check the azeotrope tables. Many of the hydrocarbons in motor fuel also have azeotropes with water, and most have them with ethanol; heptane and
ethanol have an azeotrope boiling at 72 C or so.
Certain denatured alcohols do have a lot of methanol in them, it appears that "Klean Strip" is one of the half-and-half types. But others have 10% or
less methanol, a few have none.
http://www.distill.com/specs/EU2.html
http://www.sodes.fr/Pdf/fdsgb3r1.pdf
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Alcohol_denatured_with_IPA_a...
http://www.customs.govt.nz/about/News/alcohol+150404.htm
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/instr-shop/MSDS/Klean%20Strip%20De...
http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/MSDS/RA_Denatured_190.pdf
denatured alcohol that has a low percentage of methanol
http://alcoholsoaking.blogspot.com/2006/03/alcohol-brands-an...
If you make ether with alcohol containing both ethanol and methanol you will get aq mixture of dimethy-ether (bp -23 C), methyl-ethyl-ether (bp 7.4
C), and diethyl-ether (bp 34.6 C). For most purposes the condensate from such a preparation will work as well as pure dimethyl ether, the main
concern would be the loss of ethanol as the mixed ether.
Ethanol is likely to be the alcohol used in petrol in the US, current legislation providing support for large agriculture companies promotes the
production of ethanol from crops, methanol and isopropanol are petrochemical products.
[Edited on 27-10-2007 by not_important]
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