The_Davster
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20000 lbs of sodium +water
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7mTCMvpEM
Wow
Well its not all at once, just one drum at a time
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chloric1
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LMAO!! Imagine living in those times. Notice the announcer said"Dangerous war chemical". This sounds to be propaganda to me. I wonder if there was
a brief period around WWII when obtaining or having chemicals was a nono for the amateur?
Fellow molecular manipulator
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12AX7
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I do wonder what they would've used it for, though. TEL? Surely someone would've bought it (hazardous shipping included) for that purpose.
Tim
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microcosmicus
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My guess is that there was no such ban on chemicals, or that, if there was
a ban, it would have been relatively mild compared to what is going on
nowadays, covering only a few specific compounds. More likely, any restrictions
would have been an issue of rationing than banning. When I look back at
books and magazine articles from that period --- the Modern Mechanix
articles now made available online or the material to be found at
the Vintage Projects website being good examples --- I get the impression
that amateur chemistry went on at full speed right through WWII. For instance,
right smack in the middle of WWII, Modern Mechanix ran an article "Learn
about Sulphuric Acid -- No. 1 War Chemical" which, among other things,
tells readers how to make the stuff at home using an iron oxide
catalyst (useful information today, especially for those who can't
find vanadium oxide at their local pottery store) . An article "Table-top
Oil Refinery" begins by saying how important oil is for the war effort and
suggests this a reason why oil production should be of interest to the
citizen scientists and then describes how to crack hydrocarbons and
hydrogenate oils at home. As if to clinch my point, an patriotic ad for
a Chemcraft chemistry set from that period features a letter from an older
brother in the army urging his junior sibling to keep up his interest
because chemistry is important for the war effort! (The very antipode
of today's attitudes.) I suppose that, back then, somebody dabbling in
energetics might have been more likely to be viewed as an ingenous
backyard inventor who might discover the next great explosive to use
against the fascists rather than as a menace to society.
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MagicJigPipe
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Damnit! I would have bought my own truck and offered to ship it myself! To my house!
I mean, it's not THAT dangerous as long as you keep it dry. They acted like it was barrels of VX gas.
And I bet you could use that lake water as a household degreaser or oven cleaner. Wouldn't want to go swimming in it after that.
[Edited on 4-1-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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The_Davster
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Can you imagine having even one drum of it? I would make a removable tight seal lid for it with a cushion ontop and call it my lab stool. Can you
imagine the reaction of a safety inspector to something like that
I wonder what it was used for as well in wartime,, perhaps going to the plutonium factories for reduction purposes? Although that got started even
more after the war, so I do not see why they would dispose of it.
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microcosmicus
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Maybe the sodium was a byproduct from running a Downs cell
to make chlorine for use in producing war gases or what not?
Otherwise, it would seem incredibly wasteful to me to be
discarding something which required that much electricity
to manufacture.
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chloric1
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Something just occurred to me. Things where cheaper then and the times where simpler. Maybe the stuff got oxidized to the point that whoever decided
it was no longer of satisfactory quality. It does seem strange they didn't just sell it. Judging by the reactions, There was enough to be useful for
Organic Synthesis. But they did not have Internet, chemistry blogs, or other methods of informing the chemical public.
Regardless, it is still a GREAT video! Thank you Dave!
Fellow molecular manipulator
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microcosmicus
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I suppose that they could have thrown it into a vat of water, bottled
the stuff and sold it as drain cleaner. However, as you said, times
were simpler so maybe they wouldn't care to bother and simply dumped it.
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tumadre
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I would take a guess that bulk electricity would have been 1.5 to 3 cents/KWH at the time.
and that the price of sodium would then have been 20-40 cents per pound.
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microcosmicus
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Adjusting for inflation according to the consumer price index, that's $3 to $6
a pound today's money, so the equivalent of $60000 to $120000 went up
in smoke and flames.
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
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chloric1
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| Quote: | Originally posted by microcosmicus
Adjusting for inflation according to the consumer price index, that's $3 to $6
a pound today's money, so the equivalent of $60000 to $120000 went up
in smoke and flames.
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ |
ITs very hard to trust those "in today's dollar" scenarios. Especially since Nixon took us off the gold standard and the Federal Reserve can't keep
there mits out. Always printing more money with no value and lending out figures on a computer screen. It is all crashing down,crashing down...
Fellow molecular manipulator
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The_Davster
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All that means is that its worth even more...60 to 120K minimum
However I still prefer to call it priceless
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Magpie
lab constructor
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It is interesting to me that Lake Lenore had no fish in 1947. That is not true today as you can see at this site:
http://www.washingtonlakes.com/ReportList.aspx?id=562
I wonder if that sodium hadn't been intended for use at the US Atomic Energy site at nearby Hanford, Washington. Perhaps as a reactor coolant.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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12AX7
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I don't think anyone was considering a sodium cooled reactor (usually goes with an advanced breeder reactor design) at the time.
Tim
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vulture
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| Quote: |
Notice the announcer said"Dangerous war chemical". |
I think you're misinterpreting this. "War chemical" as chemical used in the war industry and dangerous just because sodium is fucking dangerous.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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chloric1
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I probably misinterpretted this statement. After all I have been programmed that any negative description of a chemical is antichemical propaganda.
Even as far back as the late 1980's it was progressing. Of coarse, back then I could go to the Central Hardware and buy a 50 lb bag of ammonium
nitrate for $20 and go to Bulders square to buy 1 gallon of 1,1,1 Trichloroethane for $11.  I
miss those days.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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After WW II in the US a lot of war surplus was destroyed rather than sold to prevent economic shocks. I wonder if that's why this sodium wasn't for
sale.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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Rosco Bodine
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chloric1
ITs very hard to trust those "in today's dollar" scenarios. Especially since Nixon took us off the gold standard and the Federal Reserve can't keep
there mits out. Always printing more money with no value and lending out figures on a computer screen. It is all crashing down,crashing down... |
YGTFR ...I figure every dollar I have now is worth a
solid eight cents , but not for long .
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Mario.
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Spectacular... the youtube comment says:
| Code: | Lake Lenore, an alkaline lake in the Grand Coulee area of eastern Washington State |
So, I suppose the lake was already alcaline, maybe they were dumping in sodium hydroxide previously.
The stated reason was: "nobody was willing to transport it to buyer" and I am prone to believe it! The drums were extraordinarily huge and impractical
for any use. And yes, if they had any option to store it safely, not so far away it would be used in nuclear reactor - but that was some ~30 years
later.
Glad to find a place with fellow mad scientists... oops! Mad science is forbidden under the antiterrorist act. Let's talk about Pasteurization of milk
instead!
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Drunkguy
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It seems like such a waste. It's crazy how people destroy things worth THOUSANDS upon thousands of pounds.
Sure, like it was the only available option, I bet they only did it because they wanted to see an inferno.
I saw a fireworks factory in Norway or somewhere on "the worlds most amazing videos 2" or similar. They said after that fire, the city resembled a
warzone, and it did look similar it must be said.
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YT2095
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they sure knew how to have Fun back then though, ya gotta give `em that! 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Drunkguy
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