Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Made to order PTFE adapters

Serious enough to make a prototype in lieu of studying...

The dirty brass push fittings are all I have on hand in eighth inch. However, the dirt helped show the threads so maybe it wasn't a bad choice.

What size or sizes did you want in NPT? I'll try to add some wrench flats as well. The prototype was just to get the process down.

Cool. Here's the deal. There's a bunch of people here that expressed interest in an adapter that will convert a paint can into a disposable flask. There's demand here for this, and if you can prototype something, you'll definitely have buyers --

The adapter would look like a female 24/40 joint at the top, and have threads just below this, to insert into a hole in a can lid and secure it with a nut from beneath the lid.

[Edited on 11-2-2019 by Mr. Rogers]

j_sum1 - 10-2-2019 at 20:37

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

Oooh Yes!
I want one!

Heptylene - 11-2-2019 at 03:18

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

I'd add that the thread should be a standard size so that we could connect pipe fittings to glassware too. Pipe fittings can make great high temperature retorts.

wg48 - 11-2-2019 at 06:28

azulnaught: I am interested in a 24/40 female to threaded adapter but it will depend on price. Can you give some indication of the price and were you are so i can estimate the postage. I am in the UK.

happyfooddance - 11-2-2019 at 16:35

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

Oooh Yes!
I want one!

Lol. We all want one (even though I get by with teflon tape)!

azulnaught: check out this thread if you haven't already, and especially the post from markx at the bottom of the first page.

[Edited on 2-12-2019 by happyfooddance]

azulnaught - 13-2-2019 at 09:32

DavidJR:
What type? For a rotary evaporator, a motor, or rotary vane vacuum pump?

Heptylene:
'Standard' is a little ambiguous as it depends upon your geographical location which may differ from mine (U.S.). Did you have a specific size in mind or a picture of what you would like to connect?

wg48:
$30 plus shipping for 24/40 with internal threads. If you or anyone else wants multiple then the price will be less per unit. I see your location is set as Scotland - I'm unfamiliar with the pipe threading standards for each country but I'm assuming it is British Standard Pipe Thread Tapered (BSPT) for most countries outside the U.S. Not an issue, I just want to make sure that what I send will be compatible with your locally available materials.

For those interested in the paint can lid attachment:
I will gladly start working on this project although it will take a little time to complete as my only real free time to play is late nights and on weekends.

happyfooddance - 13-2-2019 at 09:40

My bad, I meant to link this thread in my previous post: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=100197

DavidJR - 13-2-2019 at 09:47

I would also possibly be interested in a paint can to glassware adapter of some description.

DavidJR:
What type? For a rotary evaporator, a motor, or rotary vane vacuum pump?

I mean for a rotary evaporator. I have DIY-ed a rotovap using an off-the-shelf PTFE stirrer bearing and fluoropolymer tubing, but it's not ideal.

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGEMQTo0t2g

I think what I want would have a 24/29 cone and a smallish spherical ball joint thing, which would form the vacuum seal against a standard glass spherical socket. I'd 3d-print some sort of bracket to hold the glass tubing with the socket pressed against the ptfe ball joint.

Or maybe it'd be better to have both mating surfaces be PTFE to take advantage of the low coefficient of friction. I'm not sure what the best way to do this is.

[Edited on 13-2-2019 by DavidJR]

[Edited on 13-2-2019 by DavidJR]

wg48temp9 - 13-2-2019 at 11:28

wg48:
$30 plus shipping for 24/40 with internal threads. If you or anyone else wants multiple then the price will be less per unit. I see your location is set as Scotland - I'm unfamiliar with the pipe threading standards for each country but I'm assuming it is British Standard Pipe Thread Tapered (BSPT) for most countries outside the U.S. Not an issue, I just want to make sure that what I send will be compatible with your locally available materials.

For those interested in the paint can lid attachment:
I will gladly start working on this project although it will take a little time to complete as my only real free time to play is late nights and on weekends.

Azulnaught: Thanks for the reply. Sorry that price and shipping is too high for me but thanks for the offer.

[Edited on 13-2-2019 by wg48temp9]

Mr. Rogers - 19-2-2019 at 09:48

What's the status on the adapters? I want four.

azulnaught - 23-2-2019 at 10:00

Mr. Rogers:
What size pipe (NPT) threading do you require for the adapters? 1/8" and 1/4" will work without any modification. It would need to be a little longer than what is pictured above for 1/2" female threads. Let me know so I can get these finished for you. All 24/40 joints correct?

azulnaught - 23-2-2019 at 10:13

DavidJR:
Your rotatory evaporator looks good. I can't tell from the video but what are the dimensions (or joint size) of the 3-way adapter you are using and of the straight glass tubing that is rotating? I'm thinking that two pieces, one on the receiving end of the 3-way adapter and one connected to the turning glass tubing would be the easiest way to solve the problem.

It seems to have a decent flow rate though, even with your current set up. Lithium grease is a decent lubricant for PLA parts which might help cut down on noise some if it's not already lubricated in some manner.

Loptr - 23-2-2019 at 12:10

I would also be interested in a paint can adaptor.

DavidJR - 23-2-2019 at 13:55

DavidJR:
Your rotatory evaporator looks good. I can't tell from the video but what are the dimensions (or joint size) of the 3-way adapter you are using and of the straight glass tubing that is rotating? I'm thinking that two pieces, one on the receiving end of the 3-way adapter and one connected to the turning glass tubing would be the easiest way to solve the problem.

It seems to have a decent flow rate though, even with your current set up. Lithium grease is a decent lubricant for PLA parts which might help cut down on noise some if it's not already lubricated in some manner.

All of the joints are 24/29.

For now, I have stopped using that weird 3 way adapter and replaced it with a different adapter, which is a straight tube with a cone and socket, and a hose barb on the side. A short piece of PVC tubing goes over the hose barb and over the fluoropolymer tubing.

The stirrer bearings have an O ring that gets compressed against the 7mm tubing. It has chewed up a couple of O-rings though, even though i tried putting a bit of grease on them. I think the issue is that the tubing is not actually PTFE and instead is some other polymer which has a significantly higher coefficient of friction. I actually just received some actual PTFE tubing to try, but unfortunately I can't because the spinning glass tube part cracked while in use...

Mr. Rogers - 26-2-2019 at 10:08

Mr. Rogers:
What size pipe (NPT) threading do you require for the adapters? 1/8" and 1/4" will work without any modification. It would need to be a little longer than what is pictured above for 1/2" female threads. Let me know so I can get these finished for you. All 24/40 joints correct?

I'm agnostic WRT to the NPT size, as long as the top portion is a standard joint size like 24/40 or 24/29. Other people want to adapt jointed glassware to pipe fittings. If you make the adapter like this, you can potentially satisfy the needs to of two audiences. I'm in the "paint can" category.

Mr. Rogers - 26-2-2019 at 10:22

Here's my high-tech diagram I did in AutoCAD. The "nut" should be a standard metric 6-point size. It would probably end up at around 19mm given the 24mm size of the top portion.

[Edited on 26-2-2019 by Mr. Rogers]

draculic acid69 - 26-2-2019 at 22:32

If you could fabricate a fitting/stopcock that turns a coke bottle into a separatory funnel that would be something I've been dreaming about for 20 years.ive come close to this by drilling a hole thru the lid and screwing in a 4mm inline tap valve.it works great except chloroform dissolves the plastic tap.xylene ethyl acetate and toluene were fine but chloroform is a no-go.an all teflon piece would be the holy grail of turning a coke bottle into a separate funnel.
Also another bottle idea is to have a dreschel attachment made that would turn any glass lemonade bottle into a gas wash/scrubber bottle.

If either of these are possible I'll definitely buy some.

[Edited on 27-2-2019 by draculic acid69]

andy1988 - 26-2-2019 at 22:36

azulnaught: In the distant future I'm interested in some custom FEP, PTFE, & PEEK parts for a contraption in a paper, but I need to work through some other stuff first. I hope you are enjoying your courses!

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

For now, I have stopped using that weird 3 way adapter and replaced it with a different adapter, which is a straight tube with a cone and socket, and a hose barb on the side. A short piece of PVC tubing goes over the hose barb and over the fluoropolymer tubing.

The stirrer bearings have an O ring that gets compressed against the 7mm tubing. It has chewed up a couple of O-rings though, even though i tried putting a bit of grease on them. I think the issue is that the tubing is not actually PTFE and instead is some other polymer which has a significantly higher coefficient of friction. I actually just received some actual PTFE tubing to try, but unfortunately I can't because the spinning glass tube part cracked while in use...

DavidJR did you see this rotovap design? Uses a PTFE Standard Stopper, but the threads filed down and a channel dug for the o-ring. And a high torque motor to "overcome the friction the vacuum puts on the rotary joint". What do you think of it?

[Edited on 27-2-2019 by andy1988]

draculic acid69 - 27-2-2019 at 01:12

Azalnaught could you replicate this in teflon?

It is a 4mm inline tap valve for aquarium /garden irrigation.
it does not need to be as small but under 1cm wide for the threads.
Can this be done?

[Edited on 27-2-2019 by draculic acid69]

[Edited on 27-2-2019 by draculic acid69]

DavidJR - 27-2-2019 at 03:39

Quote: Originally posted by andy1988

Yes, I have seen that. I'm concerned about gluing a tube into PTFE as PTFE is nearly ungluable. I also thought that maybe an unmodified stirrer bearing could work given that it's designed to seal onto a PTFE shaft - you just need a PTFE tube instead. Like i said, I've got some real PTFE tubing to replace the not-PTFE tubing which should hopefully work better. But i'm waiting on a replacement glass tube thing since it broke.

The motor i'm using is capable of a fairly decent torque.

Mr. Rogers - 20-3-2019 at 00:15

Still want this, and I like the Sep funnel adapter idea too.

Someone do this -- there's a ready-made audience here.

draculic acid69 - 20-3-2019 at 04:10

So I'm guessing that azalnaught was just a tease and all this post amounted to is a few pictures of teflon porn?

Mr. Rogers - 20-3-2019 at 04:26

Every time somebody pops in with this (non-novel) adapter idea, they just disappear.

!! ** POOF ** !!

When somebody can actually make these adapters, there's money here...

[Edited on 20-3-2019 by Mr. Rogers]

MrHomeScientist - 20-3-2019 at 06:50

Give the poor guy (girl?) a minute! He's a student and doing this in his free time, after all. The space between his previous two posts was 10 days, and it's only been 7 since the last one. I think the fact that he cranked out a prototype after his first post is a good sign.

I'd also be interested in a paint can distillation adapter. Looks like this Teflon business is an untapped gold mine!

draculic acid69 - 20-3-2019 at 11:59

Last post was a month ago not 7 days

draculic acid69 - 20-3-2019 at 12:11

Does the teflon fitting have to be the part that connects to the paint can lid.everyone wants this for distillation not reflux right? I'm thinking a brass threaded compression fitting attached to the lid with a hex flanged back nut on either side of the lid which has a copper or SS distillation neck which has a teflon stirrer bearing on the end that attaches to a condenser.

[Edited on 20-3-2019 by draculic acid69]

[Edited on 20-3-2019 by draculic acid69]

[Edited on 20-3-2019 by draculic acid69]

MrHomeScientist - 20-3-2019 at 12:56

Yikes, not sure what I was thinking there. Time to go home and rest...

Mr. Rogers - 20-3-2019 at 15:40

Does the teflon fitting have to be the part that connects to the paint can lid.everyone wants this for distillation not reflux right? I'm thinking a brass threaded compression fitting attached to the lid with a hex flanged back nut on either side of the lid which has a copper or SS distillation neck which has a teflon stirrer bearing on the end that attaches to a condenser.

Brass would be better, but the end goal is to ultimately connect this to glass, and a single piece of PTFE is probably the most achievable way of going about this.

The Kimble catalog actually has a "blank" which is a glass tube somehow attached to a metal tube made from some special alloy. It's designed for constructing the same type of devices we're discussing here. You'd need two different skill sets to effectively make use of this though.

[Edited on 20-3-2019 by Mr. Rogers]

azulnaught - 30-3-2019 at 13:18

I apologize for the delayed response and inattentiveness. I am currently at the height of the semester as far as workload. I will continue to be busy for the next few weeks but once they pass I will have more time to work on projects like this.

Here are some of the male threaded adapters (that can be used for a steel plate/paint can) to 24/40 taper joint with stainless lock nuts and nitrile gaskets. The gasket on the outside of the paint can shouldn't be needed if you wrap the threads with Teflon tape. The adapters may have some tooling marks but they shouldn't affect functionality.

I'm currently looking for a cheaper source for these stainless nuts in 304 and 316 to keep the price point low. I'm considering purchasing some Viton O-rings as an upgrade as they are compatible with a wider range of chemicals. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated.

As for the 2L to separatory conversion - I could make something but if the plastic cap is compatible then it would be easier to just drill a hole in the cap, install a metal barb fitting, outfit it with a compatible soft tubing, and use a pinch clamp to control/limit flow.

Mr. Rogers - 30-3-2019 at 22:13

Hey!! Good work!! We want these, so keep at it. You have an audience here that will buy these. I'm definitely in.

[Edited on 31-3-2019 by Mr. Rogers]

draculic acid69 - 30-3-2019 at 23:21

I tried pretty much everything in regards to the coke bottle to SEP funnel idea.the metal barb is a weak point as corrosion is/will be a problem.the hose would be another one with soft rubber tubing being eaten by solvents and aquarium tube being too stiff or thick to pinch effectively .Pinching a tube to the point of being able to stop the gravitational flow (ie: leaking) of a liquid in adequate time and be able to effectively separate two liquid layers has not proven doable so far. It has to be a screw in/on teflon or pet stopcock/tap of some sort sort.everything else I've tried just isn't good enough.fresh ideas are welcome.

[Edited on 31-3-2019 by draculic acid69]

Sulaiman - 31-3-2019 at 01:10

Here are some of the male threaded adapters ...

I would want a groove cut in the adapter to take a Keck clip,
and preferably a ptfe washer and nut.

andy1988 - 31-3-2019 at 02:34

I'm currently looking for a cheaper source for these stainless nuts in 304 and 316 to keep the price point low.

UK based ACCU, inexpensive international shipping & prices (tax is upwards of 25% for me though), good browsing interface. Wide variety of materials including PEEK, nylon, other metals, even black oxide on both 304 & 316.

EDIT: A bit more expensive & different variety including PTFE, US based McMaster.

[Edited on 31-3-2019 by andy1988]

draculic acid69 - 31-3-2019 at 04:09

Andy 1988 what are you trying to suggest with the links in your post?

andy1988 - 31-3-2019 at 04:37

Andy 1988 what are you trying to suggest with the links in your post?

Inexpensive chemical resistant nut supplier for the paint can (Accu's offline quotes aren't inexpensive in low quantities though). Sorry in the thread I became mixed up reading your post talking of metal corrosion, you were talking about a different thing.

[Edited on 31-3-2019 by andy1988]

Loptr - 31-3-2019 at 04:58

Very nice, azulnaught!

Mr. Rogers - 31-3-2019 at 10:23

Quote:

I would want a groove cut in the adapter to take a Keck clip,
and preferably a ptfe washer and nut.

Ideally, I would like this to be a two-piece deal, a PTFE adapter and nut, without the o-rings.

Herr Haber - 1-4-2019 at 03:43

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

Here are some of the male threaded adapters ...

I would want a groove cut in the adapter to take a Keck clip,
and preferably a ptfe washer and nut.

I'd be interested in the same configuration with maybe a few extra Viton rings.
The topic smells of DCM and benzene !

draculic acid69 - 4-4-2019 at 01:04

DCM, benzene and other destructive distillation products.

Loptr - 4-11-2019 at 07:33

Did this ever pan out?

If not, then I have a treat for you guys. I just purchased a lathe/mill/drill combo with a 13" swing and 40" between centers, which should be shipping out today. I am not a machinist, but have always been interested in metal working and have wanted one for years, so I finally took the plunge. It was quite expensive and I also purchased a lot of bits and things to use with it. It's not a "mini lathe", but certainly not a 1+ ton unit. The shipping weight states over 1300 lbs, but that includes the other things I bought as well.

I will be able to do a lot with it, and the parts in this thread look simple enough. I will be able to make washers, nuts and other threaded parts, and parts with a standard taper out of most metals or plastics. I even have ideas for constructing a double chuck fixture where both chucks are connected to the spindle to be able to turn glass, but that might just be a dream--I don't want to cause warping with the heat.

I will be trying to get up and running with it once it is received, and I will be sure to post some pictures for you guys to checkout. I will also be able to offer my services, so if you guys want parts made, I am sure we can work something out.

Also, I will not be going... POOF! I have been here a few years, and have been found to be a somewhat reliable seller.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Edited on 4-11-2019 by Loptr]

[Edited on 4-11-2019 by Loptr]

Ubya - 4-11-2019 at 09:52

Did this ever pan out?

If not, then I have a treat for you guys. I just purchased a lathe/mill/drill combo with a 13" swing and 40" between centers, which should be shipping out today. I am not a machinist, but have always been interested in metal working and have wanted one for years, so I finally took the plunge. It was quite expensive and I also purchased a lot of bits and things to use with it. It's not a "mini lathe", but certainly not a 1+ ton unit. The shipping weight states over 1300 lbs, but that includes the other things I bought as well.

I will be able to do a lot with it, and the parts in this thread look simple enough. I will be able to make washers, nuts and other threaded parts, and parts with a standard taper out of most metals or plastics. I even have ideas for constructing a double chuck fixture where both chucks are connected to the spindle to be able to turn glass, but that might just be a dream--I don't want to cause warping with the heat.

I will be trying to get up and running with it once it is received, and I will be sure to post some pictures for you guys to checkout. I will also be able to offer my services, so if you guys want parts made, I am sure we can work something out.

Also, I will not be going... POOF! I have been here a few years, and have been found to be a somewhat reliable seller.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Edited on 4-11-2019 by Loptr]

[Edited on 4-11-2019 by Loptr]

i think that maybe we found someone to keep the idea and actually do it
:3 thanks, your service will surely be asked

draculic acid69 - 5-11-2019 at 22:08

Now that the offer of teflon has been made loptr will evaporate.

Loptr - 6-11-2019 at 06:16

Now that the offer of teflon has been made loptr will evaporate.

Poof!

Nope, still here. I was pricing some the other day. It's not expensive, so I'm not sure what the issue is. I was looking at about 6ft round stock for ~$40-50. A number of adapters and parts can be made from that.

The metal for turning will be a lot more available because I can get it nearby with steel being $0.20/lb.

If you are interested in ptfe alone, I am sure that I can also sell my turning. I know that ptfe powder has usage in energetics.

[Edited on 6-11-2019 by Loptr]

Ubya - 6-11-2019 at 07:48

Now that the offer of teflon has been made loptr will evaporate.

If you are interested in ptfe alone, I am sure that I can also sell my turning. I know that ptfe powder has usage in energetics.

[Edited on 6-11-2019 by Loptr]

Eh, powder not turnings, machining ptfe produces ribbon like tunings, not a fine powder.
Is there a way to make turnings into powder?

Loptr - 6-11-2019 at 07:54

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya

Now that the offer of teflon has been made loptr will evaporate.

If you are interested in ptfe alone, I am sure that I can also sell my turning. I know that ptfe powder has usage in energetics.

[Edited on 6-11-2019 by Loptr]

Eh, powder not turnings, machining ptfe produces ribbon like tunings, not a fine powder.
Is there a way to make turnings into powder?

Yes, I know. I was thinking you would be able to possibly ball mill it.

Maybe not now that I think about it. You might have to grind it.

[Edited on 6-11-2019 by Loptr]

markx - 6-11-2019 at 23:48

It is not easy to turn sintered PTFE into a fine powder. It tends to stretch and creep producing a kind of fibrous mass that clumps together. One could try a blender type of approach with the turnings suspended in water and the blade honed to a very sharp edge.
Guess it would be simpler to just buy the powder. It is available online (ebay e.g) for cheap prices that do not justify the hassle of diy....except maybe for satisfying ones curiosity.

draculic acid69 - 7-11-2019 at 04:25

Quote: Originally posted by markx

It is not easy to turn sintered PTFE into a fine powder. It tends to stretch and creep producing a kind of fibrous mass that clumps together. One could try a blender type of approach with the turnings suspended in water and the blade honed to a very sharp edge.
Guess it would be simpler to just buy the powder. It is available online (ebay e.g) for cheap prices that do not justify the hassle of diy....except maybe for satisfying ones curiosity.

Trying to powder plastic sounds like too much hassle and grinding plastics is impossible to do by hand.

Loptr - 7-11-2019 at 18:06

Either way, it was just something off the top of my head.

I just picked up the lathe from the shipping dock. I thought I would be able to move it around in the box more, but its wayyy too heavy. Thankfully I have a largish engine hoist that will do the trick getting it out of the uhaul.

[Edited on 8-11-2019 by Loptr]

draculic acid69 - 8-11-2019 at 01:41

Now that the offer of teflon has been made loptr will evaporate.

It takes a few weeks for the curse to take effect.
Let's see if you are still here in 3weeks.

Loptr - 8-11-2019 at 19:01

Alright, the lathe is in the garage. Not yet on the its base, and that's because I have grossly underestimated how difficult 1000 lbs is to handle, not to mention trying to roll it across an exposed aggregate driveway. I was about to pass out when a neighbor stopped by and asked if they could help. Lol!

Tomorrow I will be rearranging the garage to make room, and the chemical cabinets will be getting a dedusting and moved to make way. Also, I will be taking an inventory of the lathe tooling I purchased to make sure I dont need any other tools for this work, and then it's off to place an order doe the ptfe.

I plan to make one of the adapters in this thread and then give it to someone on the forum for a review. You must actually review the item! Pics, video, or youtube will be expected. I am a perfectionist, so only a pretty decent or higher quality item will be sent out.

[Edited on 9-11-2019 by Loptr]

Loptr - 17-12-2019 at 07:11

This hasn't gone to the wayside. I have been very busy this Christmas season with some house repairs and painting.

This is still going to happen. Just checking in to let everyone know. I haven't had much time to work with the lathe yet.

monolithic - 8-2-2020 at 11:54

Could you make a 24/40 rotary joint for a DIY rotovap?

draculic acid69 - 8-2-2020 at 17:30

Once again we've all been left hanging.loptr has evaporated.this thread is cursed.

monolithic - 8-2-2020 at 17:35