Sciencemadness Discussion Board - What is this metal? - Powered by XMB 1.9.11 (Debug Mode)

What is this metal?

vano - 4-5-2021 at 03:59

Hi today i found chemical jar, full of this metal pieces, label was lost. I don't know exactly what it is. First it is hard and have low melting point, but it isn't tin or lead(its hard), also not zinc because it didn't dissolved in conc. HCl and dillute H2SO4. Not cadmium because when i melted this granules, colored oxide didn't produce. I think its pure metal, I've seen metal alloys in lab, but always they are powders.

Sulaiman - 4-5-2021 at 04:21

Indium ?

vano - 4-5-2021 at 04:24

No, i have indium, You can chew it like gum.

After melting:

woelen - 4-5-2021 at 04:28

Does it dissolve in conc. HNO3?
What if added to a mix of conc. HCl and 30% H2O2?

If it dissolves in one of the above, what color does its solution have?

vano - 4-5-2021 at 04:37

Thanks woelen. I thought that, i have azeotropic nitric acid and 50% peroxode but unfortunately in another city. Here i have mentioned acids, conc phosphoric acid (i think it isn't interesting) and hypochlorite 15% solution, i will use hypochlorite. Either way I do, I’m sure it will dissolve in nitric acid

zed - 4-5-2021 at 14:13

Flame test.

rockyit98 - 4-5-2021 at 14:36

easiest way is to find out density using lab scale and do a comparison . also try and find the melting point if can.

DraconicAcid - 4-5-2021 at 14:40

Zinc can be passivated and not react with acid in the absence of copper.

paulll - 4-5-2021 at 16:49

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid

Zinc can be passivated and not react with acid in the absence of copper.

Yes, it'd be interesting to see what happens on mixing it with sulphuric again but with a dash of CuSO4 chucked in.

Bedlasky - 4-5-2021 at 17:18

It's better to add HCl, sulfuric acid is somewhat dull in this. Piece of aluminium foil refuse to dissolve in battery acid even when heated.

paulll - 4-5-2021 at 17:24

Quote: Originally posted by Bedlasky

sulfuric acid is somewhat dull in this. Piece of aluminium foil refuse to dissolve in battery acid even when heated.

...whereas with a little Cu2+ in the mix it should react quite nicely with Zinc.

fusso - 5-5-2021 at 00:18

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid

Zinc can be passivated and not react with acid in the absence of copper.

Objection, i tried dissolving Zn in dil H2SO4 without adding any Cu containing substances and they did react.

[Edited on 210505 by fusso]

UranylPeroxysulfate - 5-5-2021 at 00:39

Zinc does dissolve in acid (both hydrochloric and sulfuric) without copper. Aluminum doesn't dissolve in sulfuric acid unless heated to ~80C.

I looked up a list of metals with a low melting point, here are some possibilities:
Silver: m.p. 962C. Matches all the chemical properties you described.
Bismuth: m.p. 271C. Matches all the chemical properties you described except that it produces colored oxides when melted.

Less possible ones:
Thallium: m.p. 304C. Too soft and dissolves in HCl.
Cerium: m.p. 795C. Too reactive; it even reacts with water. The same goes for lanthanum with m.p. 920C.
Plutonium: m.p. 639C. Dissolves in HCl. I don't really think you can have plutonium.

UranylPeroxysulfate - 5-5-2021 at 00:44

Another note:

Very few metals dissolve in hypochlorite solution. If you don't have HNO3 or H2O2, I suggest electrolytically oxidizing the metal into a dilute HCl solution and look at the color of the solution. This method can even dissolve gold and platinum if done correctly.

vano - 5-5-2021 at 00:58

I have but not here, I will try this reactions maybe a week later. It didn't dissolved in hypochlorite, but next i added acid and when chlorine produced foil of this metal almost disappeared, only left some black piecies.

phlogiston - 5-5-2021 at 05:01

Bismuth?

Does it feel unusually dense if you hold a bunch of granules in your hand?

Try concentrated H2SO4, or add hydrogen peroxide to your hydrochloric acid.
Or nitric acid, if you have that.

[Edited on 5-5-2021 by phlogiston]

vano - 5-5-2021 at 06:04

No it isn't Bismuth. I have many metals, but It does not look like them. That's why I'm very interested. Thank you I will try (week later).

Sulaiman - 5-5-2021 at 07:15

Quote: Originally posted by zed

Flame test.

symboom - 5-5-2021 at 09:19

Great idea Sulaiman
Sense we don't have a post voting
Like a group populated answers poll.

Flame test
+1

I'm guessing aluminum because when you dissolve aluminum wire sometimes black pieces come off. Sometimes it's white or gray.

The density can be checked by weighing the object then using the water displacement trick. The change in water volume is used as the volume.

[Edited on 5-5-2021 by symboom]

vano - 5-5-2021 at 09:30

I will make flame test, but before that it must be dissolved in acid, at least one week i can't. I will determine the density with water. Thank you everyone for your ideas.

[Edited on 5-5-2021 by vano]

RogueRose - 5-5-2021 at 09:40

could it be an alloy like Woods metal or Rose's metal?

vano - 5-5-2021 at 10:11

Hmm interesting. It has really low melting point, it instantly melted. I will put it in boiling water. Almost all alloys in lab are powder, but Wood's metal and such metals which have low melting point maybe not. Thanks!

rockyit98 - 5-5-2021 at 12:37

Quote: Originally posted by UranylPeroxysulfate

Zinc does dissolve in acid (both hydrochloric and sulfuric) without copper. Aluminum doesn't dissolve in sulfuric acid unless heated to ~80.

if you add little HCl to the dilute H2SO4 it makes a huge of different to reaction with Al room temperature. once the reaction gets going the heat will make it more so , also it will also boil the initial HCl but since the hotter reaction temperature will compensate for that.

vano - 6-5-2021 at 02:53

It's melted in boiling water. I will determine density and that is. Dissolve in acid isn't necessary.

vano - 6-5-2021 at 03:21

Where can i found alloys with density ?

[Edited on 6-5-2021 by vano]

vano - 6-5-2021 at 03:37

It's rose's metal

j_sum1 - 6-5-2021 at 03:50

Good find. Good detective work.
Now... What to do with it.

vano - 6-5-2021 at 04:01

thanks. Teamwork has great power. To tell you the truth I do not know what I will use it for. I am still learning about its properties and uses (sure not as a solder

). I don't know why, but i don't have Bismuth, Perhaps I will separate it from alloy.

Jenks - 6-5-2021 at 07:44

If you can get a good sphere out of the sample you might get a more accurate volume measurement by measuring its diameter. This must certainly be a bismuth alloy. Maybe Rose's metal could be told from Wood's metal by measuring the melting point?

[Edited on 6-5-2021 by Jenks]

vano - 6-5-2021 at 08:21

I find the volume easier, a flask, water and burette are only needed. It does not matter what shape the metal will have.

RogueRose - 6-5-2021 at 08:41

You can use it for castings where you want to remove the metal before pouring the final metal. It's kind of like lost wax casting but you can use metal instead. Create the shape you want with the woods/roses metal, make a casting form, heat & allow metal to drain out and then pour with the final metal you want the part made out of.

I'd be interested in how hard it is. This might be very interesting to use with a CNC router (especially one designed for wood/plastic) if the metal is soft enough. You could create parts the size/shape you need and then cast them like I said above.

vano - 6-5-2021 at 09:07

Interesting idea, worth to try. Its hard alloy. But i think molten alloy will stay on sand wall in inside and wax not.

pneumatician - 6-5-2021 at 23:51

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Now... What to do with it.

build a nanobot. autoreplicative, getting atoms separately from soil of Gold, Platinium, Rhodium... and amass a fortune.

it's a matter of getting on with it.

Triflic Acid - 7-5-2021 at 05:24

Or maybe go easier and build a thermometer. Or prank the hell out of someone by melting it and telling them that it is mercury

[Edit: Apparently some people(referring to njl particularly) here just want to see the world burn

]

[Edited on 7-5-2021 by Triflic Acid]

njl - 7-5-2021 at 05:25

Make a fusion weapon

vano - 7-5-2021 at 05:43

Quote: Originally posted by njl

Make a fusion weapon

How?

vano - 7-5-2021 at 05:50

I found three more alloys, i classified all of them. First is Devarda's alloy, second one is steel, why it was in lab? Any ideas? Third is magnetic powder (which type I don't know), but maybe it contains much iron oxide, but it is very weak magnetic powder, does anyone have this?

njl - 7-5-2021 at 06:42

Quote: Originally posted by vano

Quote: Originally posted by njl

Make a fusion weapon

How?

Hit it really hard with a hammer

ChemTalk - 16-5-2021 at 21:19

It is very interesting that you have Rose's metal.

Just today, I was reading a famous book that ChemTalk purchased, we have an original 1933 copy, called the chemical formulary book. It is a chemical "recipe" book, that teaches you how to make, well, anything. One chapter was on alloys, and I was reading about alloys with low melting points, including Rose's metal.

There are many alloys that are liquid at room temperature, we will try to make some of them soon.

RogueRose - 17-5-2021 at 05:13

Quote: Originally posted by vano

I found three more alloys, i classified all of them. First is Devarda's alloy, second one is steel, why it was in lab? Any ideas? Third is magnetic powder (which type I don't know), but maybe it contains much iron oxide, but it is very weak magnetic powder, does anyone have this?

The black stuff I'm guessing is powdered magnitite (Fe3O4) or it could be a powdered ferrite with carbon mixed in.

rockyit98 - 17-5-2021 at 07:57

if the black powder weakly magnetic and is a iron oxide probably FeO .try heating it to 500C in air, if it get more magnetic when cools down while increase mass it is FeO.also try to dissolve in HCl.

vano - 17-5-2021 at 21:15

Black powder is magnetic powder for fingerprint.