Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Bugger YouTube

j_sum1 - 7-10-2021 at 03:24

Venting here.

I just had a vid removed by YT. Yes, I know my channrl is neglected, has very few views and goes nowhere towards the aspirations I originally had but still, it is disappointing.

The video in question was an unsuccessful oxidation of toluene to benzaldehyde. It was titled, Benzaldehyde attempt 1. It had maybe 100 views in the three years it has been there.. Apparently, according to YT, I am instructing people kn how to make drugs. (Roll eyes)

What really smarts is the fact that I intended to have another go at some stage. There were some really insightful and useful comments made. And now those are lost.

Small stuff, I know. But annoying nontheless. If I hadn't mentioned the product in the title, I doubt it would have ever been noticed. I might give it a little time and upload again as toluene oxidation. Probably worth casting a critical eye over the remaining vids too.

Anyway, bugger youtube.

karlos³ - 7-10-2021 at 04:18

Damn, that sucks :(

I've also heard just today, that PoorMansChemist's videos are taken down right now, one after the other.

ShotBored - 7-10-2021 at 04:32

Does YT have any form of recourse or appeals process for this bullshit? Is there any way to be able to lay out facts and possibly reverse the decision?

B(a)P - 7-10-2021 at 04:36

Sorry to hear that, what a shame. I had no idea benzaldehyde was an intermediate for an illicit substance. Either way I thought it was a pretty common and easily accessible compound? I actually watched and enjoyed that video, it seems wrong that you loose all of the comments also. YT is definitely heading in the wrong direction.

teodor - 7-10-2021 at 05:46

It is very bad. But probably we should understand that youtube is not a kind of social achievement, like a public library, it is just a private company.
I am wondering, how it would be legal to keep such kind of chemical videos on dedicated hosting. And link them from SM. With a kind of moderation, of course, but by people how at least understand chemistry. If you think it would be valuable addition to the board I will think and try to find the way to manage the IT part and the hosting itself. Because PoorMansChemist's and j_sum1's videos should really belong to the community, not to a private company.

Texium - 7-10-2021 at 06:11

Quote: Originally posted by teodor  
I am wondering, how it would be legal to keep such kind of chemical videos on dedicated hosting. And link them from SM. With a kind of moderation, of course, but by people how at least understand chemistry. If you think it would be valuable addition to the board I will think and try to find the way to manage the IT part and the hosting itself. Because PoorMansChemist's and j_sum1's videos should really belong to the community, not to a private company.

DavidJR attempted to do exactly what you described a few years ago, shortly after ChemPlayer got shut down:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=82...

It was short lived. To stand a chance at longevity, any future attempt would need to be at least somewhat decentralized. A community video hosting service can’t effectively be managed and hosted by a single person, no matter how pure their intentions.

Fulmen - 7-10-2021 at 06:19

You might want to check out LBRY

teodor - 7-10-2021 at 06:33

Quote: Originally posted by Texium  
DavidJR attempted to do exactly what you described a few years ago, shortly after ChemPlayer got shut down:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=82...

It was short lived. To stand a chance at longevity, any future attempt would need to be at least somewhat decentralized. A community video hosting service can’t effectively be managed and hosted by a single person, no matter how pure their intentions.


I agree. I don't mean to manage it personally but I can make & host it for some time. And the actual videos/comments could be accessible by torrents, git or any other ways and everybody who want will be able to mirror it and put it in his/her own hosting. This way the things like, let say, Linux operating system was developed. It never was hosted only in a single place. This is the difference between "a company asset" and "a social asset".

I will try to examine the experience of DavidJR as well as anything you will mention in comments.

Also, if somebody can make it better, I will appreciate & use it. But I think I also have some relevant experience for this kind of job and I am doing some internet research, so I have a plan also to extend my resources available for hosting.

But the discussion should be open. It would be interesting to know what do you think about such a project.

[Edited on 7-10-2021 by teodor]

Fulmen - 7-10-2021 at 08:56

https://lbry.com/

https://lbry.com/faq/what-is-lbry

https://odysee.com/

teodor - 7-10-2021 at 09:48

So, how I can make my own mirror of lbry or odysee, Fulmen?

Edit: I suppose it is not by any means easy. With a block chain technology you need usually
1) a special application (and nobody normally have time to fix or modify it except its creator. But its creator usually also have no time - I know because I was a creator of dozen such services already)
2) have to store EVERYTHING which is hosted on this platform, not only chemical video
3) be dependent on miners.
...
I have no idea why we need something so complex.
We can make just a site, put the code & instruction how to deploy it in some public access (github), allow torrents/ftp to mirror its content and put some redirection page on SM which will switch from one hoster to another one if previous one will have a problem. Or switch randomly to distribute load if several hosters want to keep it.

Also we need some administrator rights which could be different if different people will host it, so wee need some mechanism to merge edits made on different server. This is the most tricky part and definitely not something we should start with.

Also, this should be intentionally for video copyrighted with some free license, which should be accessible without fee or donations. For everything else we already have nice services like youtube, patreon etc.


[Edited on 7-10-2021 by teodor]

[Edited on 7-10-2021 by teodor]

Fulmen - 7-10-2021 at 11:46

Why would you make your own mirror? Just use LBRY to host/distribute the vids. It's an open, proclaimed censor-free alternative to Youtube.

UC235 - 7-10-2021 at 15:15

Seems they rolled out some sort of new filter or algorithm because I just got dinged for Phenylacetylene of all things. Chloroform and nitric acid still fine, apparently. Well, youtube can suck a dick. I'm just going to put everything on unlisted. Won't break links to the videos but they're unsearchable. Let me know in U2U if you want a link to anything.

S.C. Wack - 7-10-2021 at 16:48

Y'all haven't been spending enough time on-site and/or clicking enough ads? Maybe a video/creator has to generate revenue (for youtube) each year, or Some Excuse is given to delete it? My Marianne Faithfull video (and nothing else) is still up after 15 years...because it has a jillion views. I suspect that many youtube and ebay takedowns are the end result of being targeted by a malicious individual...or LE.
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
PoorMansChemist's videos are taken down right now, one after the other.


Making cyanide is there. Other benzaldehyde videos are there. Nitroethane and mercuric salt videos...
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
I had no idea benzaldehyde was an intermediate for an illicit substance.


It's hard to believe but the more discussed subjects here are drug and explosive precursors...and poisons, but that also kind of comes with the territory.

Tdep - 7-10-2021 at 20:55

Hearing lots of reports of video takedowns over the last day or so on old chemistry videos. AussieChemist had a phosphoric acid video with a strike, and Corrosion got a strike on a triphenyl bismuth video. Both for drug synthesis.

Looks like a change in the strike algorithm. This happens from time to time, Youtube changes what 'the great big machine overlord' is looking for, and a whole heap of videos suddenly get strikes. Stay safe everyone, it should pass. Hopefully Youtube re-adjusts soon and can start to realise that not all chem is goddamn drugs

wg48temp9 - 8-10-2021 at 05:17

About ten years ago I posted on youtube a short video of curious young lambs checking me out. It is still up and it only has 16 looks and one like.

Perhaps youtube likes cute lambs more than chemistry.

teodor - 8-10-2021 at 05:49

Quote: Originally posted by wg48temp9  

Perhaps youtube likes cute lambs more than chemistry.


Try to post a video about some lamb with the name "Mercury".

wg48temp9 - 8-10-2021 at 10:04

Quote: Originally posted by teodor  
Quote: Originally posted by wg48temp9  

Perhaps youtube likes cute lambs more than chemistry.


Try to post a video about some lamb with the name "Mercury".


Yes I suppose we could probe the rejection criteria by posting various videos with suspected rejection criteria.

DraconicAcid - 8-10-2021 at 10:42

I have no trouble finding songs about cocaine on YouTube......

macckone - 8-10-2021 at 12:23

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
I have no trouble finding songs about cocaine on YouTube......


From white lines "Little jack horner, sat on the corner with no shoes or clothes because he took his money and sniffed it up his nose".

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the drug.

The real problem is almost anything can be used to make one drug or another. If you start with methanol, ethanol and glycerine, you can make the vast majority of organic compounds with the correct hetero inputs. Obviously this is not efficient but it is possible.

arkoma - 8-10-2021 at 13:02

Video of me firing a fully automatic Sten Gun on YouTube, and another with a nutty Lady friend of mine getting the shit knocked out her (willingly) by a Anti-Bark shock collar. But let's shit can science instead, WTF we need to learn anything for?

*edit* isn't "bugger" pretty vulgar in Oz? Curious. And if so "Bugger" them assholes.

[Edited on 10-8-2021 by arkoma]

j_sum1 - 8-10-2021 at 14:14

To answer the language use question, "bugger" got signigicantly toned down in NZ a couple of decades ago as the result of a highly popular Toyota ad on TV. (Ironically, an aussie actor.) Let's see if I can find it.
https://youtu.be/ZUNJd06iyWU


We could all conduct an experiment by posting cat videos titled phenylpropanone and see what happens.

CouchHatter - 9-10-2021 at 14:19

It's a slim shot, but someone might have archived the page on archive.org. If you can still dig up the video ID from bookmarks or history, it'd be worth checking. Not that I've ever had luck with this method, but in theory, it could work. Especially if you're mostly interested in comments.

TheMrbunGee - 10-10-2021 at 05:51

I got my ammonium permanganate prep video removed, I made an appeal, because they claimed it was narcotics cookery video, which was surprise for me. Can anyone explain what narcotics I am able to make since I have ammonium permanganate and I could really use some? :D

karolus28 - 10-10-2021 at 06:20

I think KMnO4 is used for making coke so I guess the algorithm just connected some facts

Keras - 10-10-2021 at 07:34

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Venting here.
I just had a vid removed by YT. Yes, I know my channrl is neglected, has very few views and goes nowhere towards the aspirations I originally had but still, it is disappointing.


Upload it on the Internet Archive.
That’s what Chemplayer did.

[Edited on 10-10-2021 by Keras]

S.C. Wack - 10-10-2021 at 09:17

Well, one needs KMnO4 to make the ammonium salt, and it's KMnO4 which is used to oxidize impurities in raw coca paste (or ephedrine to methcathinone), so really that would be taking KMnO4 out of circulation. They have a NurdRage video on making it...

Syn the Sizer - 10-10-2021 at 18:20

Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
PoorMansChemist's videos are taken down right now, one after the other.


Making cyanide is there. Other benzaldehyde videos are there. Nitroethane and mercuric salt videos...


I can't rememeber off hand which videos, it was some older more obscure videos of his.

TheMrbunGee - 11-10-2021 at 04:36

I won the appeal, and video is back, everyone can go back to cocaine cook! :D

draculic acid69 - 1-11-2021 at 20:57

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
To answer the language use question, "bugger" got signigicantly toned down in NZ a couple of decades ago as the result of a highly popular Toyota ad on TV. (Ironically, an aussie actor.) Let's see if I can find it.
https://youtu.be/ZUNJd06iyWU


We could all conduct an experiment by posting cat videos titled phenylpropanone and see what happens.


Yes YouTube my cat's name is P2P. Nothing to do with drugs.
You could try reposting the vid without benzaldehyde in the title.
Also edit a few seconds out here or there or add 30 seconds of blank
screen at the end so it's not exactly the same length. I doubt it's a human
re-watching your "new" video to see if it's the same.also maybe you can appeal
the ban and actually have a human weigh in on the decision.

j_sum1 - 1-11-2021 at 21:13

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
To answer the language use question, "bugger" got signigicantly toned down in NZ a couple of decades ago as the result of a highly popular Toyota ad on TV. (Ironically, an aussie actor.) Let's see if I can find it.
https://youtu.be/ZUNJd06iyWU


We could all conduct an experiment by posting cat videos titled phenylpropanone and see what happens.


Yes YouTube my cat's name is P2P. Nothing to do with drugs.
You could try reposting the vid without benzaldehyde in the title.
Also edit a few seconds out here or there or add 30 seconds of blank
screen at the end so it's not exactly the same length. I doubt it's a human
re-watching your "new" video to see if it's the same.also maybe you can appeal
the ban and actually have a human weigh in on the decision.


I have plans to do something like that.
But not immediately. I thought I would let a little time pass. And it is lower priority than other projects I have at the moment.
My big disappointment is in losing some really thoughtful comments that I never thought to archive.

ManyInterests - 1-11-2021 at 21:40

This is why I always download the videos on chemistry that I want to watch later. That way I still have them even if they get taken down.

That being said. YouTube's records of keeping and promoting videos is stupid. I don't want to get political, but they often take down history videos for the dumbest of reasons. Words like 'war' and 'violence' are enough to flag a video for deletion even if they are talking about a historic event that happened thousands of years ago. Other videos were taken down for 'tobacco and alcohol use' when they had a brief bit of stock/historic footage of some person with a cigarette in an hour long video.

The internet was a truly fine place when it was highly decentralized before Facebook and YouTube. We still need things like Facebook and YouTube. But we need to break those companies up into smaller bits. The monopoly is no good for anyone.

Benzaldehyde

MadHatter - 2-11-2021 at 09:49

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8445#p...

This may be the reason the video was pulled down even though the
reporting threshold is 4 KG.

The reference above is 14 years old so I don't if the DEA has
updated their thresholds.

mysteriusbhoice - 8-7-2022 at 05:06

This is the main reason I mix my Vtuber content with my chemistry content and yes it does hurt my viewership but it seems to stave off any weird Yt mishaps

macckone - 23-9-2022 at 13:24

Quote: Originally posted by mysteriusbhoice  
This is the main reason I mix my Vtuber content with my chemistry content and yes it does hurt my viewership but it seems to stave off any weird Yt mishaps



There are different rules based on country of origin.
As far as I know benzaldehyde is controlled in the USA but not elsewhere.

Sulaiman - 23-9-2022 at 15:28

I just checked my YT subscriptions,
So many chemistry channels have no blue dot... a sign of things to come?

I doubt that channels are removed due to lack of activity or revenue or content quality as my two channels are still there.

SM had a Google blue tick for a while but now its gone.

EDIT : Ignore the above... See next post for the reason.
....................................
D'oh !
Dumb of me... I thought it is like the blue Google tick
Sorry for posting without checking... Very careless of me.

[Edited on 24-9-2022 by Sulaiman]

Texium - 23-9-2022 at 15:40

The blue dot just means there’s been new uploads since last time you looked at the channel. I don’t think I see your point.

arkoma - 24-9-2022 at 12:47

Your Benzaldehyde 1st attempt video popped up in my youtube dashboard today :)

Unbugger

j_sum1 - 24-9-2022 at 16:35

Yeah. I saw it too. And all the comments are restored: the ones I could not see earlier.
I watched it again and am pleasantly surprised with how the hand-held phone shots came out.

I will do a backup of the comments later.