Sciencemadness Discussion Board - SM Challenge - thoughts?

SM Challenge - thoughts?

Vosoryx - 26-4-2018 at 16:27

So this was mentioned in a recent thread, and I think that another SM challenge would be a great way to help build the community, as well as promote some decent science to be going on here on the forum.
Indeed, a challenge on this site (that I gave up on) is the reason I went from a lurker to a poster, and I hope that it might do the same for other new members.
I would be glad to help this by organizing another challenge, and though I don't have much, I might be able to throw something into the pot for a winner.
Does anyone have any ideas for a decent challenge? Ideally, we'd want to make it both challenging enough to encourage a lot of members and useful to our community.
Perhaps, we could also make multiple challenges to appeal to different types of chemists - Perhaps both organic/inorganic?

Any ideas? I'd love to engage in a discussion to better flesh out these plans.
I can't think of any compounds that would really work well for this, as well as the fact that I doubt i'd be able to organize such an event on my own.

Let me know if anyone's interested.

walruslover69 - 26-4-2018 at 16:30

I'm somewhat new to the forum, what were the previous challenges?

DrEvidence - 26-4-2018 at 17:02

I don't care what's the challenge, but what's the reward? Something large like car, or something small like teaspoon?

j_sum1 - 26-4-2018 at 17:12

There have been a few in my time.

Before I arrived was a challenge to make fire without matches using novel reactions. Numerous posts to youtube -- some quite interesting but they are scattered all over the place.

Then was a challenge to synthesise a compound (non-polymer) with the highest molecular mass. It suffered due to having definition problems. But there was a result.

There was challenge to synthesise TEMPO from otc reagents. I did not follow that one.

aga issued a challenge to make nitric acid from otc/natural reagents excluding nitrates.

There was a copper carnival -- synthesise a sequence of copper compounds reacting from one to the next in a linear fashion. There were five submissions eventually, all with good write-ups. They are worthy of downloading and adding to your lab library -- there is some good stuff there.

I hosted a competition to have a versitile and interesting lab with five otc compounds. Only one submission; from volanschemia (and a pretty nice prize -- I think four people contributed to the prize pool.)

I think maybe a good way to go would be to have a weekend challenge. You announce the competition date and some details of what reagents and equipment might be needed. Then on Friday (by some definition of Friday) you give all the details and everyone starts work. On Sunday they give their submissions.
This would be easy to participate in since anyone interested would know ahead of time what their commitment would be and be able to apportion their time accordingly.

I won't dig up the links to all these comps just at present but can possibly add them later. And I may have missed one or two.

walruslover69 - 26-4-2018 at 17:40

Creating the most colorful compound sounds like a very fun challenge, with the potential for a wide range of different approaches. Colorfulness might be defined as highest molar absorptivity within the visible range. There is the problem of quantitatively verifying results without a UV-Vis but i think we could find some way around that, or by simply comparing lit values.

violet sin - 26-4-2018 at 17:40

DrEvidence, wrong approach yo. No offense, but the reward is usually donated by a member or members here. As such it's not usually too flashy. Aga did offer a NICE sum for the nitric acid idea, and also made some trophies for a past challenge though. They were super cool looking, and much appreciated by those that received them. I have not competed in any. No time. Copper carnival would have been fun.

I assume there will be a chip in pot for those that can share something with winners, or donate a couple bucks. You won't be getting a new car, unless some one donates a toy as a gag now, lol. Certain chems can't cross certain borders which could make donations for items limited, based on the winners locations. Cash travels nicely in the form of PayPal or such. But who has too much of that? Not I, that's for sure.

Perhaps there could be an ante of sorts. Every contestant could donate to the pot, and winners take a share. I'd be in favor of also having a small sum go to who ever manages the beast. Spare time isn't free. I mean I know of an abundance of things I could be doing right now with mine, and none of them included managing an online chemistry contest .

as far as ideas, it would be nice to have some use come of this contest, we agree on that. Perhaps we could have one on cobbling together labs equipment too. It's been a long day for me, ideas are thin right now. Ask again when my 30oz coffee cup is full, and my bullshit meter is empty ...

Metacelsus - 26-4-2018 at 18:30

Quote: Originally posted by violet sin

Perhaps we could have one on cobbling together labs equipment too.

I like that idea. I suggest doing something related to building analytical equipment. Perhaps an automated TLC system of some sort?

I can contribute some prize money (at least $50, possibly more depending on what we decide as the challenge).

Edit: I could also manage the challenge (I graduate college in about 2 weeks and I will have more free time this summer).

[Edited on 4-27-2018 by Metacelsus]

Vosoryx - 26-4-2018 at 19:18

Well, a couple of points to address here:

I'd be more than happy to be atleast the main organizer of these - it was my idea after all. I wouldn't request anything. However, depending on the scale of this, I might need some help in judging/organizing it.

1. The "weekend challenges" sound like an absolutely awesome idea! That would be really great. My only concerns are:
i. Wow would that be a pain to manage. Not saying I couldn't do it, but if I did it would be a big job - i'd probably get a couple other people to help out if it were weekly.
ii. Sending out the winnings to the contestants, especially if it's weekly, would mean that each participant would get less, which might result in not as much participation. My main goals here are to grow the community and have fun.

2. If we were to do an ante, then I would be concerned that it might drive off participants. Indeed, if there was an ante for the challenge that I did, (or more accurately didn't do) then I likely wouldn't have partaken in it. Not because I wouldn't have coughed up the small amount of money for it, but because I don't have a paypal (<18) and thus couldn't pay it. I have a few useful bits and bobs lying around that I could send out to winners if it were a big competition, as well as some exotic chemicals that I found by chance.

3. I like the idea of the equipment too, that sounds like it would be a fun experiment, and probably appeal to most chemists.

I feel as though I could organize a large challenge, (possibly if I got some prize donations from members) but I might want some help on judging it if it's not a "first to the finish line" kind of challenge. If it's the weekend challenges idea (which, again, I love) then I think that multiple people would have to be in on organizing that.
There'd have to be perfect planning as not to divulge too much information but enough for people to want to participate. Also, every challenge would have to be pre-completed to get a time estimate, and to solve any problems that might come up.

This is great - i'm hopeful this will go somewhere.

Edit: Just thought of this - would people be okay with me judging/organizing it? I've only been around for a short while, and people might feel more trustworthy if it were put on by someone with more seniority.

[Edited on 27-4-2018 by Vosoryx]

j_sum1 - 26-4-2018 at 19:30

From experience, managing a competition was not at all onerous. It took less time than competing.
One of the reasons that I did it was to keep me in the loop chemistry-wise at a time when I was not able to do any experimentation. I counted it a privilege to have some input into others and to discuss some cool ideas. And it does not need to be that big a prize for it to be special. I am sure that for most of us, a 500mL RBF direct mailed from deschem (for example) would be very welcome. But it is not that expensive.

Let's have a discussion via U2U, Vosoryx. We can thrash out some ideas and I can give you some assistance with running the show.

VSEPR_VOID - 26-4-2018 at 19:40

We need an announcement thread where a moderator would post the official challenge and the rules. I have seen this done on reddit (example KSP challenges )

TLC Challenge Idea

Metacelsus - 26-4-2018 at 19:48

Here is my idea for a challenge:

Quote:

The Sciencemadness TLC Apparatus Challenge
Rules:
The prize money goes to whoever submits an entry first, with sufficient proof that the criteria have been met for the prize.
Device schematics, pictures, source code (if applicable, including .stl files for any 3D printed components), and statistical data must be publicly available.
Detailed instructions must be provided on device construction and use.
All challenge submissions will have a CC-BY-SA 4.0 license.

After an entry is submitted, there will be a one-week public comment period before the award becomes official.
Even after the main prize in a category has been awarded, users can still submit entries for bonus prizes.

Prize money will be sent via PayPal within one month of official award announcement. Alternate payment methods may be allowed upon request, but there are no guarantees.
The challenge closes September 1. No entries will be considered after then.

Note: It is quite likely that the prize money will be less than the cost of creating the devices, but remember that you will still have the device for your own use after you finish building it for the challenge. A working device is its own reward. Of course, other users are free to contribute additional money to the prize pool if they want.

Category 1: Spotting
Make a device to automatically spot a fixed volume of liquid (in the range of 1 to 10 µL) onto a TLC plate, with coefficient of variation less than 10% over at least 20 spots. Prize: $50
Bonus: Have the amount of liquid spotted be adjustable by the user: $10
Bonus: Be able to spot multiple (at least 5) spots a fixed distance apart on the same plate: $10
Bonus: Quantify spot areas and retention factors using open-source image analysis software: $5

Category 2: Elution
Make a device to automatically elute TLC plates and stop elution when complete. Elution must be even (no wavy solvent fronts allowed!) The device must be tested with at least five plates, each of which having at least three spots. Coefficient of variation in retention factors must be less than 10%. Prize: $50
Bonus: Make your own TLC plates and successfully demonstrate their use in your system: $20
Bonus: Automatically apply stain to plates after elution is complete: $5

Does this sound like a good challenge? I intend it to be difficult but still possible. It would also benefit the Sciencemadness community by helping people with TLC. I could run it and fund the prizes. Of course, I would be open to letting someone else run it if they want to take this on.

[Edited on 4-27-2018 by Metacelsus]

j_sum1 - 26-4-2018 at 20:02

That sounds awesome, Metacelsus. It is however outside my league -- I simply don't have the electronics skills to participate in that one.

@VSEPR VOID
In the past, the organisers have worked out the details and posted conditions and dates in a dedicated thread. It does not really need moderator input or official announcements. With my last competition there were two threads -- one for discussion before and during the competition and the other for posting submissions at the due date.

j_sum1 - 26-4-2018 at 20:43

List of past competitions:
Good stuff to read and consider if you are thinking of running a challenge.

Oxalyl chloride challenge
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=74...
kind of faded into nothing -- I think it ended up being too hard

Chemical conflagrations challenge
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=61...
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=61...
Nice simple finite competition. Small prize pool. Voting to decide winner. This format worked well.

Dollar Store challenge
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=56...
This one fizzed. It had some merit but needed organisational refinement.

High Stakes High Mass
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=45...
This proved to be a fun exercise for all who participated. I don't think it worked well as a competition since the submission and discussion were intermingled. But it is a good read.

Lab from 5 OTC items
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=64...
I made the time frame way too long here which meant that enthusiasm waned. I think the format in terms of instructions, discussion, submission and prizes worked well -- if anyone wants to use this as a template. It was after this that I began to think of a weekend challenge with a more restricted and finite time frame.

Copper Carnival
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=62...
IMO, the most successful competition we have had. There was some really good stuff here. Bottom line is that the concept was very accessible and able to be done by both newbies and experts.

Drunken Aga Challenge #3 -- Nitric Acid
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=48...
This was somewhat protracted and the terms were not absolutely clear at the start. What this one did do is provoke a lot of good discussion. This is the thread that helped me to transition from noob to somewhat competent. It also gave me a couple of bucks to buy some glassware. Ever grateful to aga for starting this one.

Fire without matches
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=15...
This was a collaborative YT video. I have not gone through it all -- there is much reading and watching. What I have seen looks like a lot of fun.

Electrochemistry Challenge.
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=62...
This one tanked. Shame.

otc TEMPO
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=45...
This one seemed technical to me at the time and way beyond my skills. I believe it was a successful comp and enjoyed by those who got involved.

[Edit]
Added TEMPO
Fixed link

[Edited on 27-4-2018 by j_sum1]

Vosoryx - 26-4-2018 at 20:52

jsum, thanks for that. I'll be sending a U2U soon.

Just so you know, the "High stakes High Mass" link is in both "High stakes high mass" and "Lab from 5 otc items"
This is the link I think you mean to put under that heading.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=64317

j_sum1 - 26-4-2018 at 20:58

Darned cut and paste. I will fix.

Some more thoughts on competitions posted after my last one:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=64...

[Edited on 27-4-2018 by j_sum1]

VSEPR_VOID - 26-4-2018 at 21:48

Some more ideas for possible challenges

"How low can you go?" - Create the lowest temperature environment possible
Notes: Must maintain the temperature submitted for at least 5 minutes and use only amateur materials and equipment

"Get there first" - Prepare a chemical compound that has yet to be produced and documented

"Chemical Art" - Just as the title describes, produce a work of art using your skills as an amateur chemist

As for prizes I think that a customized "Science Madness Award" in the form of a trophy, engraved beaker, or certificate would be better than cash. Most of us do this sort of stuff for fun and fame, not a few bucks.

[Edited on 27-4-2018 by VSEPR_VOID]

j_sum1 - 26-4-2018 at 22:26

Ooh. I like those.

Vosoryx - 26-4-2018 at 22:32

Same. All of those are good suggestions.
I suspect that an award might be a good prize, but i'd rather something I could use in the lab, such as jointed glassware or whatnot.

LearnedAmateur - 26-4-2018 at 22:37

Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID

"Get there first" - Prepare a chemical compound that has yet to be produced and documented

That would be a good idea except there have already been instances of that (anywhere on the Internet after a frivolous Google search), including one by myself, tetraphenylethylammine copper nitrate.

VSEPR_VOID - 27-4-2018 at 02:43

Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur

Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID

"Get there first" - Prepare a chemical compound that has yet to be produced and documented

That would be a good idea except there have already been instances of that (anywhere on the Internet after a frivolous Google search), including one by myself, tetraphenylethylammine copper nitrate.

It must be quite the rush to do that sort of work. I hope of doing the exact same thing as soon as possible (it would look good on my resume as well).

Metacelsus - 27-4-2018 at 04:31

I will post the TLC Apparatus Challenge in its own thread, and we'll see if people are interested.

LearnedAmateur - 27-4-2018 at 04:40

I just had a phase where I was really interested in complex ions, especially based around Cu2+, and I had quite an amount of phenylethylamine so I thought I’d have a play around. I’ve also synthesised the copper ion of dimethylaminoethanol since I also used that as a supplement, which forms a bidentate complex. They form nice colours, the PEA ligands create a forest green insoluble salt whereas the DMAE is soluble and is a very dark blue-purple solution depending on whether the light is reflected or transmitted, respectively, but I haven’t attempted to crystallise it out and can’t remember whether I used the nitrate or sulphate so I don’t want a potential explosive on my hands.

VSEPR_VOID - 27-4-2018 at 06:14

Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur

I just had a phase where I was really interested in complex ions, especially based around Cu2+, and I had quite an amount of phenylethylamine so I thought I’d have a play around. I’ve also synthesised the copper ion of dimethylaminoethanol since I also used that as a supplement, which forms a bidentate complex. They form nice colours, the PEA ligands create a forest green insoluble salt whereas the DMAE is soluble and is a very dark blue-purple solution depending on whether the light is reflected or transmitted, respectively, but I haven’t attempted to crystallise it out and can’t remember whether I used the nitrate or sulphate so I don’t want a potential explosive on my hands.

That could be another challenge, "make a new energetic compound"

Texium - 27-4-2018 at 06:33

I think challenges about making new compounds are too vague. First of all, it can be very difficult to determine whether you are actually the first person to synthesize and document a new compound. Second of all, it's not that hard to tweak an existing compound a tiny bit to make something that maybe hasn't been made before even if it doesn't exhibit any interesting and unique properties. Would that count? Where would you draw the line? What sort of characterization would be required to know that a new compound has actually been made?

Σldritch - 27-4-2018 at 07:01

Some thoughts:

1. One week is way too short, especially when the participation is already low, i suggest monthly.

2. Avoid challenges that just turn into; "Who has the most chemicals?" or, "Who has the best equipment?", to increase participation and fairness.

3. And i do not think linear challenges are likely to be very interesting such as "Make chemical X" although there are some exceptions such as nitric acid which has lots of interesting and accessible pathways.

Some good examples of this i think are the copper carnival challenge, the nitric acid challenge and the five OTC items challenge and more of course.

Im not sure how many challenges i can participate in but doing this would greatly increase both my interest and chance i can participate.

LearnedAmateur - 27-4-2018 at 07:17

Maybe one synthesis idea could be to create a chemical rainbow? Whoever can make the required complex ions/transition metal salts/azo dyes/etc. for the seven rainbow colours? Although again it wouldn’t be fair if people can easily buy certain reagents and others cannot, so it’s probably a crappy idea on the whole.

Amos - 27-4-2018 at 08:52

The challenges I like the best are those that establish something that helps the amateur community. The OTC tempo and nitric acid ones were designed to that effect. Oxalyl chloride might be something I take a stab at someday (I have some ideas), but maybe is a little tough. I'd like to see someone devise a high yield procedure for getting tetrahydrofuran out of a consumer product. Or maybe demonstrate a way to skirt high-temperature or pressure requirements of a well-known reaction. Depends on what we need most, I guess.

VSEPR_VOID - 27-4-2018 at 11:45

Maybe even create challenges designed around limiting chemicals and equipment. For example, not saying this idea is original, but who can make the best mineral acid with a ten dollar budget and household equipment.

aga - 27-4-2018 at 14:12

Think of something, put up the Prize/Money and post the Challenge.
It's as simple as that.

The Nitric thing i had to close for three reasons:

1. Nobody got close to a solution, despite lots and lots of time (alternate nitrate sources were also boring)
2. I had less money lying around than when i started that "Challenge"
3. Turned out that the solution had already been posted on SM years ago.

It is very important to quickly pay out if anyone actually solves a Challenge that you post.

violet sin - 27-4-2018 at 19:08

There could be store specific challenges, such as home depot, dollar store, Wall-Mart or even hippy health food stores... It would be more region specific for some of those, but you get the idea. It narrows down some of the players, but also opens the field in some ways.

Dollar stores have some really random crap in there, I'm sure something could be built from their stock, I know I've use them manny a time for sources of household items my wife wouldn't kill me for using. Could call that one "the marriage saver challenge" lol. It would basically allow one to have a very discrete bill.

Just one of many mediocre, after work ideas. Discard if you will, but I thought It might be a novel idea.

RogueRose - 27-4-2018 at 19:52

I support this and maybe we could take some kind of pool or collection where we donate $ and then give it away or split it. Also another idea is to give lab gear or chems away. I've accumulated some extra pieces that IDK if I will use.

I'm thinking a good contest would be an easy way of making Chlorates without expensive anodes/cathodes.. It could be broken up into a few parts, making/finding power supply, power control, electrodes & process.

I think electrolysis in general has a lot of misinformation on this site and others where things are stated to work and they seem to most certainly not.

Also, I think it would be a great idea to always have some kind of competition going on in the forum. This would be very beneficial to inspiring people to have a direction in which to focus even if it is just reading the threads. If it is a matter of cost, I'd be happy to donate to the competitions if there were good effort put into it as I'd prefer to read interesting experiments (successes or failures) than watch a bad movie at the theatre (for $20 for ticket and food) - meaning, I'd pay for the contest instead.

Vosoryx - 27-4-2018 at 21:46

I'm working on some challenge ideas right now, some for the "Weekend Challenge" idea and some for regular challenges.

One thing that I want to be conscious of is making it useful. Challenges for the sake of challenges are fun to be sure, but I want to be thinking about how the products might help us amateurs. Meta's TLC challenge is a good example of this - it'll be useful. However, i'm concerned that, just like the oxalyl chloride, it will fade into nothingness after a while. Currently, I have no way of figuring this problem out. I guess the solution would be to make the challenge not to hard that people give up but not so easy that it serves no real use or research to amateur chemistry.

I'm also, as I imagine is the case for a lot of others, not exactly made of money. What money I do make, I try to save for university. I would be glad to spend a bit as a prize for someone discovering a pathway to a useful chem. But spending it as prize money for short challenges that I've already done, as much as i'd like to, might bankrupt me.

The larger competitions seem to fail more often than not, sadly. I don't have any way around this - anyone?

j_sum1 - 27-4-2018 at 22:00

Awesome, V.
Remember that skill-building is also useful. As is something dramatic or illustrative that attracts people to chemistry and helps them understand.
At the close of the copper carnival was the question of "shall we do this next year?" followed by resounding approval. It didn't happen but there is no reason not to do a simple repeat of that one.

As for prizes -- they are nice. But they don't need to be big. And current trends are for other members to voluntarily chip in as well. Everyone breaks beakers and needs new ones. No one is going to turn down a good chem text, a few grams of Hg in some tilt switches or some vanadium pentoxide. A nice inexpensive prize is easy to arrange.

Metacelsus - 28-4-2018 at 04:46

Quote: Originally posted by Vosoryx

Meta's TLC challenge is a good example of this - it'll be useful. However, i'm concerned that, just like the oxalyl chloride, it will fade into nothingness after a while. Currently, I have no way of figuring this problem out. I guess the solution would be to make the challenge not to hard that people give up but not so easy that it serves no real use or research to amateur chemistry.

I've also been concerned about this. If I see a lack of interest in the main TLC challenge after a few weeks, then I will probably add some additional categories related to making TLC plates, which should be easier to complete.

JJay - 28-4-2018 at 07:18

The oxalyl chloride challenge didn't actually fade into nothingness; it was ended when the deadline was reached. I might start it up again after a while, but I'd want to be assured of receiving at least one entry (there is a patent route that looks like it might work).

Melgar - 28-4-2018 at 15:53

Ooh, I have an idea. See who can build the most interesting continuous-production catalytic system for producing a chemical that's difficult to obtain from one that's easy to obtain. Like say, air oxidation of naphthalene to phthalic anhydride or something along those lines.

diddi - 28-4-2018 at 23:11

the chemical art idea appeals to me as being something highly open ended and hence subject to many interpretations. i think that the easier it is to bend a challenge to ones own skill set, the more people are likely to engage. the less rules the better imo. some constraints (obviously) but not too prescriptive. perhaps categories (eg 3d sculptural and 2d) or whatever. just thinking out loud

nitro-genes - 29-4-2018 at 13:52

Production of synthetic precious opal seems like an interesting challenge. Basically, opal consists of nearly uniform (same size) silica spheres, arranged in an orderly fashion forming a diffraction grating (photonic crystal), resulting in a stunning play of colour when held in the light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55IrVwFUrrY

Touches upon chemical and physical aspects of nano materials, a hot topic at the moment with lots of applications. It might be possible to use very cheap and mostly non-toxic chemicals and virtually no glassware, so amateur friendly. I've gathered some literature and ideas on the subject already, if there is any interest here I'll post them here.

DavidJR - 29-4-2018 at 13:58

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar

Ooh, I have an idea. See who can build the most interesting continuous-production catalytic system for producing a chemical that's difficult to obtain from one that's easy to obtain. Like say, air oxidation of naphthalene to phthalic anhydride or something along those lines.

How about hydrogen peroxide via the anthraquinone process?

VSEPR_VOID - 29-4-2018 at 15:56

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar

How about hydrogen peroxide via the anthraquinone process?

I like that idea. Maybe also the production of nitric acid from air or ammonia. That could benefit the community a great deal!

symboom - 29-4-2018 at 16:00

Nitric acid from ammonia with transition metal salts

Make concentrate hydrogen peroxide

These projects alone would be a great much needed challange

Side note i set a challange for my self to compact the chemicals i need

Extraction with p-cymene

http://www.prepchem.com/synthesis-of-hydrogen-peroxide/

80-90% hydrogen peroxide obtained by mixing 30% hydrogen peroxide solution with twice its amount of p-cymene.
Sulfuric acid absorbed on silica solidified sulfuric acid
AlCl3 for making hydrochloric acid
Nitrogen dioxide absobed on solid catalysis for nitric acid
Calcium chloride for storing ammonia gas
And

VSEPR_VOID - 30-4-2018 at 01:34

Make organic compounds from inorganic starting materials. The person with the most useful, complex, or interesting results wins

j_sum1 - 30-4-2018 at 02:21

There are some good ideas being floated, and judging by some U2Us I have seen, there are more ideas being considered.

We have two competitions running right now - both related to equipment design and construction.
I think there is space for a practical chemistry challenge of some kind. Does anyone want to actually run with one of these?

VSEPR_VOID - 30-4-2018 at 03:54

Links to the existing challenges please?

j_sum1 - 30-4-2018 at 04:12

Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID

Links to the existing challenges please?

Both stickied -- I assumed links were unnecessary.
But here ya go:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=82...
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=82...

fusso - 4-5-2018 at 13:10

Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur

Maybe one synthesis idea could be to create a chemical rainbow? Whoever can make the required complex ions/transition metal salts/azo dyes/etc. for the seven rainbow colours? Although again it wouldn’t be fair if people can easily buy certain reagents and others cannot, so it’s probably a crappy idea on the whole.

Wonderful idea! I think that could be a great challenge if only allowed to use otc chemicals and/or extractions using otc solvents.

But should mixing 2 colours to make another colour be allowed?

fusso - 4-5-2018 at 13:18

Another idea:

Crystal growing challenge?

JJay - 4-5-2018 at 19:03

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Another idea:

Crystal growing challenge?

That is one challenge I would have no chance of winning. It's almost mind-numbingly easy to purify substances by recrystallization, but when it comes to growing crystals, I am just awful at it. I think a lot of people would like that idea, though. What would be the aim of the challenge?

Oh and for the record, no proposal of a Total Synthesis of Lysergic Aldehyde challenge was actually made, and it was mentioned only in jest. While it is actually possible to carry out such a synthesis, it would be extraordinarily difficult in an amateur lab, and I think it is better for a challenge to try to achieve more useful results with broader appeal.

Vosoryx - 5-5-2018 at 07:43

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

Oh and for the record, no proposal of a Total Synthesis of Lysergic Aldehyde challenge was actually made, and it was mentioned only in jest. While it is actually possible to carry out such a synthesis, it would be extraordinarily difficult in an amateur lab, and I think it is better for a challenge to try to achieve more useful results with broader appeal.

Yeah, and not to mention that any self respecting cop would nail you on trying to make LSD with such a similar compound.
So, it would be all the risk of cooking acid without the possible reward of having any.

JJay - 5-5-2018 at 07:55

Hah. It's not illegal and not on any lists of suspicious chemicals. Anyone who bothers doing the full synthesis is clearly interested in more than cookery; it would basically be the amateur version of total synthesis of lysergic acid (which is illegal). There is no law against making lysergic aldehyde as long as it's not intended to be used as a drug. Furthermore, it has no known pharmacological effects.

symboom - 5-5-2018 at 09:25

I vote for hydrogen peroxide synthsis
We use it alot and its quiet useful

Used to improve yield in some reactions
Caros acid clean glassware
Making iodine
Making oxygen
Making nitric acid
Making sulfuric acid
Desolving metals
Unique inorganic peroxide contaning compounds
Copper peroxide
Zinc peroxide

The hydrogen peroxide can be made by
From persulfate process
From barium peroxide
Athoquone process

The person with the highest concentrating not exceeding 75 percent. Or the first person to make it to 75 percent peroxide

Concentrating
Vacuum distill off water
Camical reaction
By Desication with sulfuric acid or any other desicant

DavidJR - 5-5-2018 at 10:51

Quote: Originally posted by symboom

The person with the highest concentrating not exceeding 75 percent. Or the first person to make it to 75 percent peroxide

Bear in mind that this would make it illegal for anyone in the EU who doesn't have an explosives precursors license. Maximum concentration allowed without a license is 12% by mass. Still, 12% hydrogen peroxide is a very useful reagent to have.

symboom - 5-5-2018 at 11:11

Damn that spoiles that competition i did not know that damn there are some restrictive laws i feel like the laws are slowly closing the freedom to experiment and invent
All i got to say is innovation happened in a garage just look at bill gates and other inventors

Sorry my coment is slightly leaning in to societal issues fourm

[Edited on 5-5-2018 by symboom]

fusso - 5-5-2018 at 12:25

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

Quote: Originally posted by symboom

The person with the highest concentrating not exceeding 75 percent. Or the first person to make it to 75 percent peroxide

Well then just don't mention that you're from EU and you'll be fine.
Nyaruko: it's not a crime if no one finds out.

[Edited on 05/05/18 by fusso]

[Edited on 05/05/18 by fusso]

fusso - 5-5-2018 at 12:37

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

Quote: Originally posted by symboom

The person with the highest concentrating not exceeding 75 percent. Or the first person to make it to 75 percent peroxide

Well then just don't mention that you're from EU and you'll be fine.
Nyaruko: it's not a crime if no one finds out.

[Edited on 05/05/18 by fusso]

[Edited on 05/05/18 by fusso]

Otherwise get out of dumb EU countries. There are definitely countries (a few if not a dozen) with better laws regarding owning chemicals. Sorry for political thoughts.

fusso - 5-5-2018 at 20:08

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Another idea:

Crystal growing challenge?

I think the winner could be the one who grew the largest (maybe stray crystals(is this the right term?) allowed if one wants an easier challenge), or the most beautiful (may be subjected to objective interpretation), or the crystal with the most exotic shape (also subjected to objective interpretation)

[Edited on 06/05/18 by fusso]

VSEPR_VOID - 7-5-2018 at 09:40

I like that idea. It takes very little equipment to grow crystals so it is dependent on a person's talent rather than their budget.

I would participate in a crystal growing challenge

Sulaiman - 7-5-2018 at 13:48

I've re-crystallised stuff a few times but never yet tried to grow a large/beautiful crystal.
Having no experience I'd like a challenge where a few substances are chosen by more experienced crystal growers.

DavidJR - 7-5-2018 at 14:35

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

I've re-crystallised stuff a few times but never yet tried to grow a large/beautiful crystal.
Having no experience I'd like a challenge where a few substances are chosen by more experienced crystal growers.

Personally I think this challenge would be most interesting if it was left open re the substances. Otherwise you'll just end up with loads of very similar pictures.

diddi - 8-5-2018 at 03:43

yes agree with unrestricted substance selection. perhaps judging could include a difficulty factor and an aesthetic factor as well as the size

Sulaiman - 8-5-2018 at 07:34

I see the benefit of free choice;
If we go ahead with a crystal growing challenge I shall probably attempt Rochelle Salt
so that I can make a microphone, or record player, or loudspeaker,
or a 'sharp whack with a heavy object' detector.