Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Most potent smokescreen chemical?

coppercone - 21-6-2018 at 08:52

What kinds of things are used in atmospheric sounding rockets and stuff? I know the military likes to use red and white phosphorus for screening, and that the HVAC industry is fond of using warm ticl4 in vent testing, but what else is there?
Both those options are kind of nasty too, i guess a rocket injecting ticl4 into its exhaust to make a trail is ok..

Not sure how you would deploy phosphorus linearly though or if its even a good smoke screen rather then just being easy to weaponize (i.e. good smoke density etc)

[Edited on 21-6-2018 by coppercone]

OldNubbins - 21-6-2018 at 16:18

Solvent dyes, potassium chlorate, sugar, and if I remember right, some magnesium carbonate to cool the reaction mix to keep the dye from decomposing. There might be a couple other little additions but those are what I remember.

VSEPR_VOID - 21-6-2018 at 16:30

I talked to a guy who's job in the military was just managing smoke screens. They design their smoke to drift at different rates, block different sensors, stay at different elevations.

I would recommend sugar and potassium chlorate.

Tdep - 21-6-2018 at 18:15

Apparently a smoke composition that has some use is hexachloroethane (HCE), aluminium and zinc oxide. The smoke screen effect comes from the hygroscopic nature of anhydrous ZnCl2, in the same way that P2O5 helps build a good smoke screen.

https://www.nap.edu/read/5582/chapter/7

Still nasty though, but at least chemically interesting, not often that organic synthesis finds a role in pyrotechnics

coppercone - 21-6-2018 at 19:39

I think I have made some kind of composition using parlon (maybe), zinc oxide and aluminum to make smoke. I got scared because I read that the HCE smoke can produce phosgene and other nasties, I think that the ones that use chloroorganics have a bad reputation. I don't remember what happened because it must have been over a decade and a half ago.

The most impressive I seen personally is aluminum chloride or titanium chloride smoke but I wonder if you can do better. I found they produce alot more smoke then sugar based stuff. The chlorine smokes also tend to hug the ground more then the super hot smokes produced by nitrates etc. The wax/nitrate/combustible one where you just boil the wax is decent but still does not really compare to hot AlCl3 or TiCl4 being dispersed. It does smell completely delicious though, compared to caustic shit.

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]

coppercone - 21-6-2018 at 19:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_EdgP57l1Q

Bert - 21-6-2018 at 19:56

The highest VISUAL obscurement per weight of smoke product deployed comes from the smokes that pull water vapor out of the AIR and create a fog of tiny droplets. These are not entirely dependant for effect on the weight/volume of the smoke composition, as are such smoke producers as the dye/pyrotechnic heating to vaporize mixture family of smokes. Kind of analogous to a pyrotechnic mixture with an oxidizer vs. a flammable substance which uses air to burn (like thermobarics. Or gasoline)- You get a lot more punch per weight out of the one that doesn't need to bring everything to the party within itself, but grabs some constituents out of the atmosphere.

Obviously, these same chemicals can also pull water out of your mucous membranes- and that will be quite unpleasant.

woelen - 21-6-2018 at 22:44

A very good smoke producer is SO3. This matches well with Bert's remarks above. Even a single drop of 65% oleum can cause an increadible amount of smoke. Never seen any other compound which produces so much ultrafine smoke from a small amount. The smoke is very bad though, it is a very fine mist of H2SO4.

Foeskes - 22-6-2018 at 02:36

Wikipedia mentions that SnCl4 SiCl4 and TiCl4 were used in WWI as a smoke screen.

DrEvidence - 22-6-2018 at 03:04

If I ever decide to make any smokescreen in a large scale, when i start planned actions, that will be H2O. I've seen natural fog prevents me from seeing ~ 5 meters anything in front of me. It's non-toxic, cheap, available, legal... If right proportion of electric current and water is used in some device, it can be instant fog maker. There are actually currently advertisements all over tv about instant hot water, instead of boilers. They all talk how boilers are bad, stupid, inefficient, slow, huge loss. Best to use for evading/avoiding, running away, concealing... I mean if i wanted to run away from police, i would not let them chase me, but put much fog on their car, something like that... I like natural fog because it increases privacy of property and no reason to be scared of somebody holding sniper and watching me from hills 24 hours per day.

Herr Haber - 22-6-2018 at 05:35

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  

Obviously, these same chemicals can also pull water out of your mucous membranes- and that will be quite unpleasant.


Those smokes are also very likely to be effective in the IR range from what I've read here and there (Conklin I think on HCE smokes).

coppercone - 22-6-2018 at 08:24

Dr evidence are you from the ukrainian warfront or what? Why are you worried about snipers targetting you? Man you need to move to a better area that kind of thinking is not good for you at all

Also is white phosphorus soluble in SO3 or any of the liquid metal chlorides?

I wanted smoke for rocket exhaust btw . like for determining stratification of air currents

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]

JJay - 22-6-2018 at 08:34

I know very little about smoke bombs, but Wikipedia says that zinc chloride makes an effective smoke screen. Aluminum seems to produce a lot of smoke when it burns.

AJKOER - 22-6-2018 at 09:11

Try adding easily prepared NH4Cl to your fuel source.

One home prep for NH4Cl, first make (NH4)2SO4 from say 5% ammonia water and Epsom Salt (a MgSO4 hydrate).
Filter out the Mg(OH)2 or just last stand for several days. Next, add NaCl and freeze out the Na2SO4 hydrate.

Reactions:

2 NH3 + MgSO4.7H2O + n H2O --> Mg(OH)2 (s) + (NH4)2SO4 + (n-7) H2O

(NH4)2SO4 + 2 NaCl + n H2O --Freeze--> Na2SO4.10H2O (s) + 2 NH4Cl + (n-10) H2O



DrEvidence - 22-6-2018 at 11:23

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
Dr evidence are you from the ukrainian warfront or what? Why are you worried about snipers targetting you? Man you need to move to a better area that kind of thinking is not good for you at all

I wanted smoke for rocket exhaust btw . like for determining stratification of air currents


No, i am talking about random individuals (criminals or psychos). For example few years ago somebody was shooting me 20 bullets with sniper from hill in front of me. How do i know it's sniper? First it is far enough, second i could not see who it was (have not noticed even a dot on that hill). I only heared bullets stopping close to me. And i think i was on somebody elses or public property, but i am sure it was not property owner (his property extends behind me, not in front of me), but somebody who noticed my weakness or insecurity or who know what. Like they are reading my mind and whole life.

I mean i noticed whenever somebody attacks me in any way, they are 100% sure i don't have weapon or anything to defend myself in any way. They are extremely sure. The only logic that makes sense is that they've been following me for long time before that.

Then one guy 5 years younger than me was shot and killed few months ago in close area. Then burglars entered my home and demanded weapons, money, gold. They first observed us for 1 year to lear of our habits.

Also I noticed that at exact moment that i get most worried about those snipers from hills, i receive thunderbolt sensation in brain (or stuck knife or needle sensation) that lasts for 500 ms max. After investigating this on google, concluded it is common symptom of anxiety and similar disorders. Psychiatrists and various doctors confirmed my diagnosis. They tested all my chemistry and organs, and could not find anything. Most of them say and complain actually that they have it too, and much worse sensations/symptoms. Actually all those online anxiety cures like linden method or mc2 method talk about such symptoms. All of them say "you're not gonna die". Also I get headache and toothache with people, and as soon as they dissappear, so do all those pains. According to spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle this is all caused by some mental processes (thoughts) where emotions become so real that they become physical, and turn into pain etc. Something related to rejection of everything...

And that is entirely different, then if you wanna use smoke close to people of course. Then you have a huge choice.

Herr Haber - 22-6-2018 at 11:40

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  


Also is white phosphorus soluble in SO3 or any of the liquid metal chlorides?

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]


Ok, with questions like that I'll assume that you're not likely to do anything else more complex than a black powder rocket.

Stick to crayons.

Seriously. Wax and color in the same package. Grind to fine dust, mix with black powder, adjust % to reach acceptable burnrate and smoke.

Smoke, without getting dissolved to a puddle.


Bert - 22-6-2018 at 12:37

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
I wanted smoke for rocket exhaust btw . like for determining stratification of air currents


Are you making your own rocket fuels?

Ammonium perchlorate leaves HCl as a gas in the rocket exhaust. On a humid day, this appears as white smoke. Several of the above mentioned military smokes ALSO release HCl, which augments with water droplets any white solids they may emit as well, such as Zinc oxide.

Aluminum in rocket fuel leaves Aluminum oxide in the exhaust. Quite visibly, see video of a space shuttle launch for both ammonium perchlorate and Al fuel produced rocket exhaust smoke, plus water vapor from the liquid fuel shuttle engines, once at an altitude cold enough to condense.

Some have added powdered gilsonite (Carbon rich natural mineral, like hard tar) or even powdered rubber to composite rocket fuels for a black smoke trail, similar to the smoke from TNT or other Oxygen deficient explosives which release clouds of fine soot.

coppercone - 22-6-2018 at 17:27

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  


Also is white phosphorus soluble in SO3 or any of the liquid metal chlorides?

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]


Ok, with questions like that I'll assume that you're not likely to do anything else more complex than a black powder rocket.

Stick to crayons.

Seriously. Wax and color in the same package. Grind to fine dust, mix with black powder, adjust % to reach acceptable burnrate and smoke.

Smoke, without getting dissolved to a puddle.


I have the tools, knowledge of electronics and cryohydraulics to make a liquid fueled rocket if I want, what kind of thought process do you have if you think well established engineering guidelines for aerodynamical/mechanical design and well established guidelines for use in propellants and rocket control electronics have to do with solubility laws? Perhaps you can make some kind of suspension if cold, etc

The idea is to direct a spray injector with whatever in it into a rocket exhaust.

You need basically no knowledge of chemistry to make a complex rocket unless you want to experiment with different seldom used propellants and stuff, and that still comes down to basically being an issue of thermodynamic design. The practice is over 100 years old and unless you are trying to push some kind of performance metric you can basically follow a rule book to make some thing decent. You need to know reaction rate and heat output to correctly design your nozzle and control flow rates and dispersion patterns and make sure it does not melt, but this would largely be a experimental process for a amature involving something like a force tester or even rocket sled, and I do not intend to do any experimenting with unpopular or experimental propellant mixtures.

You probably wont get anything more then very rough ball park numbers using any kind of calculable knowledge with the reaction front speed or internal pressures generated.

How about some respect? You are pretty rude. You can literarly get books on oxy/hydrogen rockets that leave your perceived need for complex chemistry knowledge in the dust because they will have simple differential equations you can use for your propellant designs.

Same for solid fuel rockets, NASA did a good job figuring out how to do it over the last 70 years with total spending in the trillions....
not to mention the military and general aviation

You do know there is a major field called 'aerospace engineering' right?:mad:

i think maybe you wanna take that crayon out of your brain

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

coppercone - 22-6-2018 at 18:01

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
I wanted smoke for rocket exhaust btw . like for determining stratification of air currents


Are you making your own rocket fuels?

Ammonium perchlorate leaves HCl as a gas in the rocket exhaust. On a humid day, this appears as white smoke. Several of the above mentioned military smokes ALSO release HCl, which augments with water droplets any white solids they may emit as well, such as Zinc oxide.

Aluminum in rocket fuel leaves Aluminum oxide in the exhaust. Quite visibly, see video of a space shuttle launch for both ammonium perchlorate and Al fuel produced rocket exhaust smoke, plus water vapor from the liquid fuel shuttle engines, once at an altitude cold enough to condense.

Some have added powdered gilsonite (Carbon rich natural mineral, like hard tar) or even powdered rubber to composite rocket fuels for a black smoke trail, similar to the smoke from TNT or other Oxygen deficient explosives which release clouds of fine soot.


I am scared of making my own fuel mixture because it might be unstable or have some kind of parameters that cause issues. That would take something I have a firm idea will work into the experimental region that I don't want to deal with. If you use a fuel that is popular like perchlorate or liquid oxygen based fuels that tons of people used, you can be fairly confident it will not explode or do something funky like be unstable with time, require special design procedures, become corrosive, etc.

I think it would be safer to design a injection system into the exhaust.

I feel that something like a rocket fuel is complicated enough that you basically need alot of people to test it alot and mess with it in various ways to determine if its reliable and safe. What if small cracks deemed harmless in regular established fuel mixtures cause this reformulated fuel to detonate?

I fell that it is the number one thing that can go wrong with a rocket other then poor workmanship like welding/bonding... control electronics are fairly reliable compared to the pyrotechnics since you can test them a bunch, the pyrotechnics you can only test once, and you need to make big batches to do all your required tests with something new. Of course you can have a bond wire in a transistor break from the factory or something, but the reliability of their manufactured designs is extremely high, and you can design in redundant systems and harden your nerve center.

In this case it would just be required to MAYBE steer it slightly to ensure it goes strait up, its not like you need a high performance complicated radar or infrared tracking system on it.. and in most cases you won't even need electronics rather then maybe a altimeter and radar beacon especially if you go solid fuel, with liquid fuel you would need some kind of basic control system. A simple timer might work well enough for dispensing smoke. A pyrotechnically actuated CO2 or nitrogen cylinder can pressurize your storage tank for the smoke chemical and open a pressure valve to dispense it in a controlled manner. You would design it to restrict the peak pressure as not to perturb the rocket.

Routing plumbing to the back of the rocket to utilize the engine heat to vaporize it would unbalance it some, depending on its total size.. but if you use something like 1/8th inch stainless tube it wont be much, and you can design in unused proxy tubes to balance it out mechanically. Steered fins would add requirements for drive hydraulics. I am imagining a cage of stainless tubes built into the body of the rocket, which could be from carbon fiber for ease of manufacture, so you don't need to bond steel to aluminum (hate this shit, supposedly high silver braze works but still), guess copper could work since it only needs to work once?

I don't think I would design it for reuse since the parachute system is complicated and you basically want something with potentially hazardous chemicals on board to defiantly work, no room for any cost saving gimics.. plus the airframe is stressed after launch so you want peak performance.... no one at home can do grain structure inspections and shit to make sure mechanical parts like fins did not get over stressed. Leave that to people who like to play that game and develop their own confidence intervals and shit, also better if something like that gets destroyed on impact so if it flies off some idiot does not find it later and take it home to have it leak etc

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

Bert - 22-6-2018 at 19:59

You're erudite.

You have been exposed to a lot of the concepts related to rocketry, engine and propellant design. But you have not actually worked in the field. Or you are deliberately playing dumb. All the claimed knowledge of cryo fueled devices, mastery of sophisticated design tools, so sure of the triviality of using established technologies- Oh my God. I DO this kind of stuff, and the simplest idea may be a nightmare to devise effective, reliable implementations for without a trained, experienced person as a mentor.

You do ask interesting questions. That, so far, is all you do.

Then you find reasons why the answers aren't sufficient. Almost as if your motive is to keep your thread going, not accept a workable jumping off point for an actual implementation, experiment, finalize a plan- And DO SOMETHING.

You don't have any work to report.

This is all so familiar.

I think I'm done here. The real world has stuff I need to do.

AJKOER - 23-6-2018 at 03:36

Do not make sensitive mixtures with KClO3 for safety reasons!!!

However, I did employ by accident an excess of Mg(ClO3)2 in a route to an energetic compound only to have a damp product that was only good at making a lot of smoke!

So just substitute in whole or part, the hygroscopic magnesium chlorate (Mg(ClO3).nH2O where n=2, 4 or 6, see https://books.google.com/books?id=AnnVAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA349&... ) for KClO3 and get a safer and better smoke producer.

Note, mixing 2 KClO3 + MgSO4 (aq) followed by freezing out the K2SO4 hydrate yields magnesium chlorate per my experience. Or, without cooling, try using magnesium tartate with KClO3 per a related reaction in Mellor, page 344.
-----------------------------------------

Per the Mellor reference, I would recommend the compound Zn(NH3)3(ClO3)2.H2O as a likely candidate to produce white smoke given the decomposition into ZnO,....

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by AJKOER]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 05:12

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
Do not make sensitive mixtures with KClO3 for safety reasons!!!


I've heard somewhere that wet mixtures are not nearly as dangerous or unstable as dry ones. Also I would not keep anything mixed ever, it's easy to mix when needed to use. Same is true for batteries (cells). When I start making my batteries I will never keep electrodes and electrolyte mixed, except when in use. Actually even electrolyte alone can be considered dangerous, for example it's better to keep Nitrogen and Oxygen in air than to keep Nitric Acid, although that sound too extreme or perfect. But trust me, it's better to have some device that can work constantly to produce anything, than to keep large amounts of acids, oxidants, whatever. I would talk now about some more life ideology but that would turn into another topic (electrochemistry).

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

XeonTheMGPony - 23-6-2018 at 05:24

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
Dr evidence are you from the ukrainian warfront or what? Why are you worried about snipers targetting you? Man you need to move to a better area that kind of thinking is not good for you at all

Also is white phosphorus soluble in SO3 or any of the liquid metal chlorides?

I wanted smoke for rocket exhaust btw . like for determining stratification of air currents

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]

[Edited on 22-6-2018 by coppercone]


They are a troll who came back despite promising never to return, all the pseudoscience garbage they post gives it away.

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 06:14

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
They are a troll who came back despite promising never to return, all the pseudoscience garbage they post gives it away.


I never used word "promise" in my life. It is only your interpetation of my words in your brain. Your perception. You see, it's relative only, even if i promised. I noticed almost all or all things in this life are relative. For example when somebody says that some girl is enjoyment or beautiful or good, they can't be so sure. Although word enjoyment is more absolute one. She can be enjoyment partially or for specific people or specific time...unfortunately most girls today try to be enjoyment for everybody and realize it's impossible. For example Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt are enjoyment for mose people but never for all people or no longer for each other. :(

Also definition of peudoscience is unclear. All alternative medicine, spirituality, alternative anxiety cures can be proven and used. Maybe not so precisely as some other things. But you don't need to know all pathways or details of some food or device or organ to benefit from methods. After all it's important is it true or false. Truth or lie. Practical, repeatable, useful...

Yesterday i drunk my 6th out of 10 tablets which is 10 mg loratadine (and lactose and crosspovidone and magnesiums stearate). Although 1st 5 ones did drastically reduce my sneezing, tears, mucous...this one didn't work at all. I don't know why and what happened. It was rainy day and definitely there was 0% pollen in air. Rain lasted at least 6 hours. Plus lower temperature than usual and lack of sunlight, which would even without rain at least reduce pollen in air.

Then i watched movie in which one guy got sick and I got sick too. I think I got sinusitis, because it can't be prevented by antihistamines. Actually I am sure it was. Then I got extremely tired, there was literally mucous and tears all over my eyes.

Then i slept 8+4 hours. I say +4 because that day when i got sick I got 4 hours earlier than usual. Then today, all my hay fever and sinusitis dissappeared. This is just evidence that toxemia and enervation are cause of disease, as Herbert Shelton defined. No more tiredness or mucous or unclear picture in eyes or anything like that.

Well, when I say I have no hay fever, I don't mean 100%. But at least 80% is prevented/reduced. Meaning still those antihistamines can't reduce completely. If I overeat or overdo or skip sleep now, I risk gettings sinusitis again. Any excess, loss of energy, lack of sleep or rest, bad or excess of food can quickly make a disease.

Oh, and I once few years ago started fasting, without even drinking water, and succeeded for 4 days. There were some symptoms like diarrhea, dizziness, light appearing before eyes every few seconds, tiredness...but I was not worried as Shelton all explained this and is to be expected. Same would occur with somebody giving up drugs or alcohol or any other habit of ingesting what we do not need (we need food, but ONLY when hungry and natural/balanced/normal/restricted).

On end of my 4th day I decided to start eating only what Shelton said: fruits. Of course I was not so patient or stable, so I overeat on bananas and peaches. Immeadiately I got sinusitis for first time in my life. I called ambulance but they didn't cared, they say you can come, that's nothing. It was extreme pain and suffering like hay fever but 1000 times worse. Unlike hay fever it can't be reduced or stopped by any medication, including antihistamines. That is just evidence that hay fever has nothing to do with pollen or medications. Hay fever is only degree of sickness, if we increase it it turns into sinusitis....and into death in the end.

I quickly grabbed my pdf "Complete Handbook of Nature Cures" and searched for words "sneeze", "mucous", "pain", "headache", "toothache" which were symptoms i was experiencing. At that moment I did not know what is sinusitis, all i knew was what is hay fever and what are my symptoms.

And I found this text:

"Sinusitis refers to an inflammation of the mucous membrane lining the paranasal sinuses. It often follows the common cold, influenza and other general infections. Germs which are usually eliminated from body sometimes find their way into these sinuses or chambers on either side of the nasal passage, leading to sinus trouble. The sinuses consist of cavities or chambers contained in the bones situated in the head and face region. The frontal ,maxillary, ethmoid and sphenoid sinuses are the paranasal sinuses which communicate with the nose. The frontal sinuses lie on the frontal bone directly above the eyes. The maxillary sinuses are located one on each side of the nose under the cheekbone. The ethmoid and sphenoid sinuses are situated behind the nose or either sideof it. These air sinuses lighten the weight of the skull and give resonance to the voice.

Symptoms:
The symptoms of sinusitis are excessive or constant sneezing, a running nose, blockage of one or both nostrils, headaches and pressure around the head, eyes and face. Sinus headaches are usually felt in the forehead and in the face just below the eyes. The patient may suffer from a low grade fever, lack of appetite, loss of sense of appetite, and toothache. He feels miserable because of difficulty in breathing. The voice is also affected because of the blocked nose.

Causes:
Sinusitis results from the congestion of the sinus passages due to catarrh. It is caused by over-secretion of mucus in the membranes lining the nose, throat and head. This over-secretion is due to irritation caused by toxins in the blood. A faulty diet is thus the real cause of sinus trouble. When a person consumes certain types of foods or drinks regularly, these, in due course, have a conditioning effect on the entire system. As a result,some persons become more sensitive to certain allergens, whose reaction ultimately turns into sinusitis."

I reacted with "WOOOW". It immediately made me calm/reassured. I can't believe this book so fast diagnosed my disease, and gave me solution. Yet it is a bit old book. I immediately believed and everything made sense. I realized it is truth because it listed exactly all symptoms and lifestyle i had. The same book which i first found to offer cure for hay fever. So I didn't eat for 1 day more, and really all my suffering dissappeared. Later I kept overeating and eating bad food like before, and got many diseases (influenza...) each year, because I can't stop myself. Habit just like from drugs and many more. Later I learned about it more and figured out something:

FASTING IS NOT STARVING.
APPETITE IS NOT HUNGER.
FASTING DOES NOT EXIST.

Although no author mentioned that 3rd one, that's the truth i figured out by comparing some books...

And Polverone banned Doctor of Orthotrophy or Doctor of Orthopathy, whatever, for no logical reason, but personal:

1.) Because it sounds too good to be true. Huh, hay fever and diabetes and many diseases are incurable. I don't like it.

2.) It sounds too bad. I can't stop eating mainstream food and other habits. What would I enjoy?

My answer to this guy is: What would you suffer? Disease is much worse than anything else you could do to prevent or reduce it.

It is true that i did not try curing hay fever using these makes-sense methods. But that is because authors only offered solutions to diseases, for which causes are let's say overeating and eating. They did not explain cause of cause. Cause that lead us to eat bad or too much, to use drugs, to drink alcohol, to overdo anything.

I identified one cause is boredom and other bad feelings. But what is cure for boredom? Eckhart Tolle and mc2method explained and offered methods, but maybe i am not trying enough, maybe something is missing...maybe they don't work?

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 06:51

I will not be shaken down for data, I am not your or this forums adjunct or graduate student.

If you post something useful anyone can use the thread. I don't understand why you are making demands.

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 06:55

Quote: Originally posted by DrEvidence  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
They are a troll who came back despite promising never to return, all the pseudoscience garbage they post gives it away.


I never used word "promise" in my life. It is only your interpetation of my words in your brain. Your perception. You see, it's relative only, even if i promised. I noticed almost all or all things in this life are relative. For example when somebody says that some girl is enjoyment or beautiful or good, they can't be so sure. Although word enjoyment is more absolute one. She can be enjoyment partially or for specific people or specific time...unfortunately most girls today try to be enjoyment for everybody and realize it's impossible. For example Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt are enjoyment for mose people but never for all people or no longer for each other. :(

Also definition of peudoscience is unclear. All alternative medicine, spirituality, alternative anxiety cures can be proven and used. Maybe not so precisely as some other things. But you don't need to know all pathways or details of some food or device or organ to benefit from methods. After all it's important is it true or false. Truth or lie. Practical, repeatable, useful...

Yesterday i drunk my 6th out of 10 tablets which is 10 mg loratadine (and lactose and crosspovidone and magnesiums stearate). Although 1st 5 ones did drastically reduce my sneezing, tears, mucous...this one didn't work at all. I don't know why and what happened. It was rainy day and definitely there was 0% pollen in air. Rain lasted at least 6 hours. Plus lower temperature than usual and lack of sunlight, which would even without rain at least reduce pollen in air.

Then i watched movie in which one guy got sick and I got sick too. I think I got sinusitis, because it can't be prevented by antihistamines. Actually I am sure it was. Then I got extremely tired, there was literally mucous and tears all over my eyes.

Then i slept 8+4 hours. I say +4 because that day when i got sick I got 4 hours earlier than usual. Then today, all my hay fever and sinusitis dissappeared. This is just evidence that toxemia and enervation are cause of disease, as Herbert Shelton defined. No more tiredness or mucous or unclear picture in eyes or anything like that.

Well, when I say I have no hay fever, I don't mean 100%. But at least 80% is prevented/reduced. Meaning still those antihistamines can't reduce completely. If I overeat or overdo or skip sleep now, I risk gettings sinusitis again. Any excess, loss of energy, lack of sleep or rest, bad or excess of food can quickly make a disease.

Oh, and I once few years ago started fasting, without even drinking water, and succeeded for 4 days. There were some symptoms like diarrhea, dizziness, light appearing before eyes every few seconds, tiredness...but I was not worried as Shelton all explained this and is to be expected. Same would occur with somebody giving up drugs or alcohol or any other habit of ingesting what we do not need (we need food, but ONLY when hungry and natural/balanced/normal/restricted).

On end of my 4th day I decided to start eating only what Shelton said: fruits. Of course I was not so patient or stable, so I overeat on bananas and peaches. Immeadiately I got sinusitis for first time in my life. I called ambulance but they didn't cared, they say you can come, that's nothing. It was extreme pain and suffering like hay fever but 1000 times worse. Unlike hay fever it can't be reduced or stopped by any medication, including antihistamines. That is just evidence that hay fever has nothing to do with pollen or medications. Hay fever is only degree of sickness, if we increase it it turns into sinusitis....and into death in the end.

I quickly grabbed my pdf "Complete Handbook of Nature Cures" and searched for words "sneeze", "mucous", "pain", "headache", "toothache" which were symptoms i was experiencing. At that moment I did not know what is sinusitis, all i knew was what is hay fever and what are my symptoms.

And I found this text:

"Sinusitis refers to an inflammation of the mucous membrane lining the paranasal sinuses. It often follows the common cold, influenza and other general infections. Germs which are usually eliminated from body sometimes find their way into these sinuses or chambers on either side of the nasal passage, leading to sinus trouble. The sinuses consist of cavities or chambers contained in the bones situated in the head and face region. The frontal ,maxillary, ethmoid and sphenoid sinuses are the paranasal sinuses which communicate with the nose. The frontal sinuses lie on the frontal bone directly above the eyes. The maxillary sinuses are located one on each side of the nose under the cheekbone. The ethmoid and sphenoid sinuses are situated behind the nose or either sideof it. These air sinuses lighten the weight of the skull and give resonance to the voice.

Symptoms:
The symptoms of sinusitis are excessive or constant sneezing, a running nose, blockage of one or both nostrils, headaches and pressure around the head, eyes and face. Sinus headaches are usually felt in the forehead and in the face just below the eyes. The patient may suffer from a low grade fever, lack of appetite, loss of sense of appetite, and toothache. He feels miserable because of difficulty in breathing. The voice is also affected because of the blocked nose.

Causes:
Sinusitis results from the congestion of the sinus passages due to catarrh. It is caused by over-secretion of mucus in the membranes lining the nose, throat and head. This over-secretion is due to irritation caused by toxins in the blood. A faulty diet is thus the real cause of sinus trouble. When a person consumes certain types of foods or drinks regularly, these, in due course, have a conditioning effect on the entire system. As a result,some persons become more sensitive to certain allergens, whose reaction ultimately turns into sinusitis."

I reacted with "WOOOW". It immediately made me calm/reassured. I can't believe this book so fast diagnosed my disease, and gave me solution. Yet it is a bit old book. I immediately believed and everything made sense. I realized it is truth because it listed exactly all symptoms and lifestyle i had. The same book which i first found to offer cure for hay fever. So I didn't eat for 1 day more, and really all my suffering dissappeared. Later I kept overeating and eating bad food like before, and got many diseases (influenza...) each year, because I can't stop myself. Habit just like from drugs and many more. Later I learned about it more and figured out something:

FASTING IS NOT STARVING.
APPETITE IS NOT HUNGER.
FASTING DOES NOT EXIST.

Although no author mentioned that 3rd one, that's the truth i figured out by comparing some books...

And Polverone banned Doctor of Orthotrophy or Doctor of Orthopathy, whatever, for no logical reason, but personal:

1.) Because it sounds too good to be true. Huh, hay fever and diabetes and many diseases are incurable.

2.) It sounds too bad. I can't stop eating mainstream food and other habits. What would I enjoy?

It is true that i did not try curing hay fever using these makes-sense methods. But that is because authors only offered solutions to diseases, for which causes are let's say overeating and eating. They did not explain cause of cause. Cause that lead us to eat bad or too much, to use drugs, to drink alcohol, to overdo anything.

I identified one cause is boredom and other bad feelings. But what is cure for boredom? Eckhart Tolle and mc2method explained and offered methods, but maybe i am not trying enough, maybe something is missing...maybe they don't work?

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]


Ok so in addition to a data shake down attempt I got a parasitic holistic preacher or some shit. Where is the clown car?

I think they should make you take a drug test for amphetamines before you can post on this forum. Or maybe you have bad attention disorder and you should look into a psychiatrist or the organic chemistry forum to help you stay on track.

I give you something like a 2.5/10 for relevance because you posted something about mucus membranes which was marginally interesting and relevant to smoke inhalation. Maybe if one of us is poisoned we can look into your ramblings as alternative treatment if we dont have insurance or common sense.

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 07:14

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
I give you something like a 2.5/10 for relevance because you posted something about mucus membranes which was marginally interesting and relevant to smoke inhalation. Maybe if one of us is poisoned we can look into your ramblings as alternative treatment if we dont have insurance or common sense.


I've done drug test in psychiatric hospital. Released, smart, happy. Have you done it ever?

Eckhart Tolle theory is that emotions are caused by thoughts, so I do not see that even mainstream psychologists have doubt in it. I talked with many psychiatrists and psychologists and they confirmed his ideas.

Is that your way of saying I do not believe? Most people get cancer on places where they are most clean, and areas which are not exposed to carcinogenic materials. Nobody almost gets cancer of hands. Are you one of those nonsense believers who believe that body gets attacked from outside and you can eat almost whatever you want and nothing will happen to you. Or those who believe hay fever can't be cured, cause is unknown (or cause is pollen :o) and hopefully cure will be found for few hundred years?

Linden method also talks how nobody can cure us, like we can't find a cure for cut skin, but cut skin heals by itself.

Huh, I know wery well what I am talking about, and in detail. And I know what already doesn't work.

When people get sick from most common diseases and experience symptoms like coughing, sneezing, mucous, pains...the first stuff that is indicator of disease are mucous membranes (in throat, nose, whole digestive system, around eyes...) and lymph nodes. For example when somebody is caughing from disease he has inflammed mucous membranes of lungs. Us with hayfever have inflammed mucous membrane of nose. Although it is more or less connected, so who has hayfever has also coughing, like me today. Shelton talked about this in specially dedicated chapter. Food causes blood to be toxic, and blood causes all organs to be toxic.

I've done surgery of tonsils. But now there are all inflammed lymph nodes, and am i supposed to now do surgery of lymph nodes, LOL?

It's simply too much poisons, excesses, whatever taht can't exit through bowels, normal breathing, sweat, urine...that it must go through mucous, coughing, tears, pus...

I already studied those 20 books from 5 authors, and they all made sense. They didn't makes sense at first. But as soon as I started going in more deeply they did, better than anything.

Even few MDs confirmed my theory, although they consider it extreme. I say nothing is extreme like disease. Every disease has cause, at least that's what i am sure for those not so rare diseases like hay fever, inflinza, diabetes, headache, and you know what.


More of Linden Method professional explanation:

You cannot have therapy to cure hunger. You cannot cure cut skin with hypnosis. You cannot close cut skin with drugs. You cannot 'reason' with your internal systems. You cannot adjust or control emotional responses using thought. You cannot stop hormone release through talking therapy. Do you see why that is? Because the body has to 'do its thing' itself. OK, you can dress a wound to keep it clean but the dressing is NOT the solution, it just prevents infection... it aids healing but your body closes cuts without your conscious help. Anxiety is SYSTEMIC - just like breathing, digestion or circulation it happens whether you are asleep or awake... YES it's become maladjusted in anxiety disorders, but it's 'normal bodily function'... it's just not appropriate to your environment. It THINKS you're fighting a tiger! By adding medications and 'chat', exposure therapy or any substance or counselling, you are just making things worse... you are confusing your mind and when this happens it doesn't send the correct signals to your body. To recap: ‍ Hypnotherapy - Cannot and will not erase or change your autonomic responses. Talking therapy - Cannot reset fear levels. It cannot make you less anxious. Tapping - The science of tapping doesn't exist. It is not a therapy. EMDR - The eyes cannot change emotional responses. This is not real science. Medication - At best a sedative or placebo. It can't mend inappropriate emotional responses. To demonstrate that the science they use is bogus, just try this... Slow your heart rate. Stop digesting your last meal. Stop producing adrenalin. Increase your blood sugar levels. Decrease your sadness. You can't consciously control these subconscious responses... so what on earth would make anyone believe that 'therapy' can do these things... no amount of therapy, reasoning, talking, tapping or drugs will stop your mind being 'anxious'... in fact, if anything at all, it will make it far, far worse... at best, you'll stay the same as you are now because doing these things is 'practising' being anxious.

And Linden also talked how medications for anxiety disorder don't affect anxiety directly. Only some small almost unrelated part (percent) of it. So called beta blockers and similar nonsense.

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 07:33

my point is why are you posting this in a thread about smoke/fog/rockets?

I made a thread about smoke and sounding rockets or whatever you want to call them

ok

you said smoke feels safe and said something relevant about smoke

ok

then you started talking about medical issues maybe kinda related to smoke

maybe you should make a thread about the lungs at this point? maybe on a different forum because it will probably be assaulted on this one

I would consider a hard end to your off topicness would be symptoms caused by smoke, not symptom management. You can manage symptoms for any kind of lung aliment not related to smoke. You could make your own thread and make a single post advertisement here in this thread since about lung treatments but going on further is ridiculous.

my point is that you lose focus in a rapid and crazy way, you are a hijacker. Its like someone saying cooking pans make smoke and then started talking about fried chicken recipes that have nothing to do with smoke. :mad:

its not even amature science related at this point, it belongs on bodybuildiers forums or medical forums or some shit

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 07:40

Well I am worried about people getting sick, and I think it deserves to jump into any thread. Like warning or cure. I mean most people die today of cancer, tobbaco, various flu's, heart attacks....... Although even I am sick and have to try my own method. But have to start from something that will enable me to solve boredom and other psychic causes. Psychiatrists don't treat boredom or common bad feeling like anger.

OK, I will experiment with my health/body/methods and post specific topics with evidence hopefully.
Maybe you too should experiment more and come with pictures, results, data, calculations, experiments, evidence.

Well science and chemistry is everywhere even in body or food. And survival is everywhere. We all have to be healthy and survive at least in order to do something more. I mean you can't play with smoke if you can't stop coughing or vomiting... That is related to topic smoke...

I mean we all risk getting banned otherwise :D

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 07:41

maybe you should make a separate thread about chemists lung health because its not really an issue that can be explored here ?

I don't know of another way to make your posts to be considered on topic by the majority of this forum to my understanding.

It is somewhat interesting because we are exposed to a plethora of different chemicals and the immune response might be different if you get exposed to a bit of this and a bit of that whereas normal workers would just be exposed to one thing that might cause some kind of weird response from the body. I don't know if it belongs in this forum but it certainly does not belong in this thread unless you can pin point something like some particular gas mixture being particularly hazardous in a way that's not obvious to someone that just looks at a SDS sheet or LC50.

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 07:43

Well there is one thing about gas. All these doctors say that most meat eaters get cancer of colon because of their meat. And cause is ammonia produced by decomposition of this meat. Ammonia directly attacks bowels, through direct contact, slow one with long time exposure.

Dietary fibre increases the bacteria in the large intestines which require nitrogen for their growth. This in turn reduces the chances of cancerous changes in cells by reducing the amount of ammonia in the large bowel.

Many well-known biologists and naturopaths, however, believe that a faulty diet is the root cause of cancer. Investigations indicate that the cancer incidence is in direct proportion to the amount of animal protein, particularly meat, in the diet. Dr. Willard J. Visek, a renowned research scientist explained recently a link between excessive meat-eating and cancer. According to him, the villain is ammonia, the carcinogenic by-product of meat digestion.

Well I am sick and poor now so can't even post anymore. So goodbye from me for this summer. See you all in fall when i hopefully get healthy and rich and solve other plethora of problems in my own life. :cool:

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 07:45

unless you actually take some kind of action all this information will be deleted by moderators most likely so you are basically just wasting my time and irritating people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_marketing

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 07:50

Well looking at Bert's last reply to this topic, you're not far away from ban too. And as I said no more mumbo jumbo from me until fall. Have to solve my own shit first :mad:.

unionised - 23-6-2018 at 07:56

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
Try adding easily prepared NH4Cl to your fuel source.

One home prep for NH4Cl, first make (NH4)2SO4 from say 5% ammonia water and Epsom Salt (a MgSO4 hydrate).
Filter out the Mg(OH)2 or just last stand for several days. Next, add NaCl and freeze out the Na2SO4 hydrate.

Reactions:

2 NH3 + MgSO4.7H2O + n H2O --> Mg(OH)2 (s) + (NH4)2SO4 + (n-7) H2O

(NH4)2SO4 + 2 NaCl + n H2O --Freeze--> Na2SO4.10H2O (s) + 2 NH4Cl + (n-10) H2O



Holy S***!
Ajkoer said something sensible and useful (and, obviously, not dependent on impossible free radical chemistry).

JJay - 23-6-2018 at 08:41

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
unless you actually take some kind of action all this information will be deleted by moderators most likely so you are basically just wasting my time and irritating people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_marketing

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]


This has absolutely nothing to do with marketing guerrillas.

aga - 23-6-2018 at 08:44

Awesome.

I got a bag of ammonium sulphate fertilizer and definitely some table salt.

Also have a pot of aqua regia which might have a teeny bit of Pt in it.

Some ammonium chloride will come very much in handy.

Great timing AJ (and unionised) !

AJKOER - 23-6-2018 at 08:48

Thanks Unionised for the rare compliment!
------------------------------------------------------------

You must be just the right person to contact all those journals that are all clogged up with advanced oxidation processes (based largely on radical chemistry) to remove pollutants and god knows what else!

And, don't forget all those biochemists claiming that transition metals engaging in redox reactions can even attack DNA and lead to cancer. Pure nonsense!

There is even a radical (ClO) claimed to part of a reaction chain that removes ozone and may be responsible for the ozone hole (which obviously does not exist).

I pretend to love my polluted water especially if I get my in-laws to indulge!

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by AJKOER]

Tsjerk - 23-6-2018 at 09:01

DrEvidence is a troll

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by Tsjerk]

aga - 23-6-2018 at 09:08

No shit Sherlock.

Same M.O. as the very recent D.Orthp.

I'd like to respond to the cancer thing, but this thread is supposed to be about Smoke Stuff, not Health.

Tsjerk - 23-6-2018 at 09:22

You can check out dodgy looking links anytime by right clicking them and copy the link-address and paste them in any text-editor.
.
AJOEKER is just wrong on the radical stuff, not wrong on the chemistry, just completely pulling the chemistry completely out of context. I would love to see a peer-reviewed review of his hand published in any paper with a impact fact higher than 1. Although managing the maximum amount of words could pose a problem.

Edit;
Quote:
There is even a radical (ClO) claimed to part of a reaction chain that removes ozone and may be responsible for the ozone hole (which obviously does not exist).

Dude, that is text book stuff

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by Tsjerk]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 09:25

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
You must be just the right person to contact all those journals that are all clogged up with advanced oxidation processes (based largely on radical chemistry) to remove pollutants and god knows what else!

And, don't forget all those biochemists claiming that transition metals engaging in redox reactions can even attack DNA and lead to cancer. Pure nonsense!

There is even a radical (ClO) claimed to part of a reaction chain that removes ozone and may be responsible for the ozone hole (which obviously does not exist).

I pretend to love my polluted water especially if I get my in-laws to indulge!


Depends on what do you mean polluted water. Water polluted with bacteria aka natural water is OK. Water polluted with chemicals used to clean those bacteria is NOT OK. Again it's only relative, depends on quantity, type of bacteria and chemicals. But in most cases. At least that's naturopathic view. In book Orthotrophy:

Drugged Waters Health (?) Boards no longer permit the drinking of pure water. They drug the drinking water of cities with iodine, chlorine, lime, alum, etc. This compulsory wholesale and indiscriminate drugging of the people is made possible by reason of the fact that we have state medicine in America. Just as examples of the wholesale drugging of our water supply the small city of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., uses 40,000 pounds of alum in three months in its city water supply, or a little over a pound per capita per month; while Columbus, Ohio, purchased for use in its water in 1933, 8000 tons of lime, 3000 tons of soda ash, 1200 tons of sulphuric acid, 500 tons of bauxite (an aluminum ore compound), 500 tons of coke and 8 tons of liquid chlorine. I shall not discuss each of these poisons separately. Iodine will be discussed elswhere. At this point I shall confine my remarks to chlorine. Chlorinated water is water that has had chlorine, an "inorganic" acid-forming mineral, added to it, to destroy "typhoid germs." Chlorine is a poison and if enough of it is put into the water to destroy germ life, it will also destroy animal and human life. Chlorinated water is more to be feared than the "typhoid germs." All poisons are cumulative in their effects, if they are habitually used. If there is not enough chlorine placed in city water to kill outright, it will produce its effects in time. Sprinkling the lawn with chlorinated water kills the grass and flowers and impairs the soil. In Toronto, Canada, where chlorinated water has been used for a period of years, there has been no reduction of typhoid. During the five-year period from 1921 to 1925 there were more deaths from typhoid in Toronto than in the combined cities of Kingston, Cobourg, Cornwall, Brookville, Belleville and Hamilton. These later cities all used the same water and it was not chlorinated. So much for its failure; now for its damages. Some authorities state that even the steam escaping from radiators supplied with chlorinated water has been known to cause death. The victims were gassed with the same gas that the soldiers were killed and injured with in World War I. Boiling this water may fill the room, day after day, with this gas. There is also a greater concentration of the mineral left in the water, which goes into the foods cooked in it. Mr. Harter, president of the Defensive Diet League, says: "The worst feature of all is the slowness with which the darned thing works and the absence of symptoms until the trouble has reached an incurable stage." Clarke, of London, author of a medical dictionary, and a good authority, presents a long list of diseases which have resulted, in human beings, from repeated and long-continued doses of water containing the approved percentage of chlorine. Among these diseases are colds, catarrh, acute rheumatism, inflamed and ulcerated mouth, malignant pustules, acne, carbuncles, nettle rash with fever and dry, yellow, shrivelled skin. Dr. Clarke seems to have proven his case. Even if the chlorine does not produce these troubles outright, it does not kill the germs that are held responsible for them.

Drugged Waters

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 09:33

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
No shit Sherlock.

Same M.O. as the very recent D.Orthp.

I'd like to respond to the cancer thing, but this thread is supposed to be about Smoke Stuff, not Health.


If you wanna mention Sherlock, mention it in smart example, even he thought some sense, as I am quoting 3rd time text by Ross Horne (who also often mentions Herbert Shelton and is just continuing his ideology, and mentions Shetlock Holmes):

That is simple-but there are pitfalls, the main one being that the world is full of conflicting advice, most of it either only half right and a lot of it totally wrong, which means you must sift all the information you are offered regardless of its source. Remember: opinions only become facts when they are proven. To demonstrate this point, the chapters which follow describe just how mistaken many of our traditional beliefs are--beliefs about nutrition, germs and viruses, disease and medicine--which misconceptions, while held on to, prevent any chance of a full comprehension of our subject. Other information follows as well, of course, and as Sherlock Holmes said to his friend Dr Watson (or words to the same effect): "When you have eliminated all that is false then whatever remains must be the truth."

More makes-sense scientific theory about all diseases like cancer (unlike on wikipedia):

As toxemia can occur in countless different forms and degrees, not only through improper diet but through stress, lack of fresh air and sunshine, etc, once the limits of "body wisdom" are exceeded the resultant effects may vary widely, which explains why there are so many different diseases listed in the medical textbooks and why doctors, not realizing the true nature of the problem, sometimes have so much difficulty deciding which disease is "attacking" their patient and which drug to "fight" it with. When the usual blood tests are made for chronically sick people, the blood is assessed for various chemical compounds and elements and a count is made of the red blood cells (erythrocytes) and white blood cells (leucocytes). A more thorough inspection of the blood under a microscope, however, reveals a lot more. Such an inspection of the blood of someone chronically ill shows that the blood is polluted with sludge and that the red cells and blood platelets tend to stick together (aggregate), so that the blood becomes sticky (high viscosity); it cannot carry oxygen properly and it cannot circulate properly. This, of course, is a demonstration of a diseased milieu interieur, reflected in medical tests by increased blood pressure, high sedimentation rate of red cells (ESR) and high platelet adhesion index (PAI). It is common knowledge among doctors that these poor blood conditions accompany the various chronic diseases, but their conventional drug-oriented medical training does not permit them to see that the impure, high viscosity, sludged blood is the disease itself, and that what they think is the disease is only a symptom of disturbed homeostasis.

I mean even everybody agrees that tobbaco at least causes cancer of lungs, tongue, if not of all organs. That is same theory as of naturopathy.

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 09:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGzAKP_HuM

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

Tsjerk - 23-6-2018 at 09:59

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGzAKP_HuM

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]


I watched the whole clip

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 10:15

I remember that song from childhood, and video is motivational for scientists. Like.

Some more experiments through which is discovered the cause of cancer (from the same book):

For a start, it has been proven that germs and viruses do not cause cancer. Present cancer research is working on the supposition that cancer is caused by toxins of various kinds which one way or another find their way into the body and in some locations cause damage to the nucleus of a cell, turning it into a cancer cell. The presumption is that a gene within the DNA structure of the cell becomes altered so that the cell begins to multiply. Such a change to the cell's DNA is called a mutation. Also suspected of being able to cause cancer in this way are various forms of radiation, and any substance or influence that either causes cancer or tends to cause cancer is called a carcinogen. This hypothesis is a simple one, and if it were true it should be easy to prove, but although it is well known that certain substances can be carcinogenic, they are not always so, and the mechanism by which they are supposed to work has never been demonstrated. The hypothesis therefore remains only guesswork, and in the minds of most doctors cancer remains a mystery. However, there is a theory on the causation of cancer which has been proven--one which accords to all known facts and biological laws and has been demonstrated in the laboratory. This theory, called the De- differentiation Theory of Cancer, developed from knowledge accumulated about how aerobic cells generate energy by the respiration of oxygen, and is best explained in the books of four of the 20th Century's greatest medical scientists: Dr Otto Warburg, Dr Max Gerson of Germany, Dr William F. Koch of the USA, and Dr Cornelius Moerman of Holland.

Although doctors Gerson, Koch and Moerman each separately arrived at the same conclusion and demonstrated the theory by their successful treatment of human patients, it was Dr Warburg who demonstrated visually in the laboratory the actual changing of normal cells into cancer cells. In fact, Dr Warburg was not the first to demonstrate that cancer arose from cells whose normal respiration had been disturbed. P.G. Seeger had proven this in 1936, 1937 and 1938 but it was F. Windisch in 1947 who succeeded in changing normal cells into cancer cells by intermittently withholding oxygen from them, an experiment repeated in 1953 by H. Goldblatt and G. Cameron. Dr Warburg's experiments, however, actually measured the degrees of respiration and fermentation involved in the transformation of cells, and actually measured the oxygen pressures inside tumors in the living body. Dr Warburg did not physically interfere with the experimental healthy cells in any way, and he did not employ chemicals, heat or radiation--he merely reduced their supply of oxygen. When he reduced the oxygen needed by the cells for normal respiration by thirty-five per cent, they de- differentiated to become cancer cells. How can cells in the human body with an unrestricted air supply be deprived of oxygen? Answer: toxemia (unhealthy blood).

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

Tsjerk - 23-6-2018 at 10:39

How you get from a catchy song to motivational to cancer is beyond me.

aga - 23-6-2018 at 10:57

Oh well, seeing as even the OP's gone 'Jokers Wild' ...

Quote: Originally posted by DrEvidence  
..., a renowned research scientist explained recently a link between excessive meat-eating and cancer. According to him, the villain is ammonia, the carcinogenic by-product of meat digestion...

According to the research and clinical trials of Dr John Beard (1908), the cause is hypothesised to be the depletion of Trypsin in the digestion of highly concentrated protein sources.

Apparently trypsin also has a role in the body's immune system enabling it to attack cancerous cells (of some types). The pancreas puts out around 2.2 litres of juicy stuff daily, and no more. If the trypsin is all used used daily in meatystuff digestion, none left.

As i recall, it is produced in the Pancreas, so it is no surprise that pancreatic cancer is amongst the most rapid and lethal (~97% mortality 6 months from diagnosis).

The FDA worked really hard to shut down some US doctor who was having remarkable success in 'curing' cancer patients back in the '70s or '80s, can't remember which.

Last i heard, it's still legal to buy injectable trypsin in Mexico as they have a huge apricot farming sector.

The dietry fibre thing is basically that we evolved to eat a lot of cellulose with our uncooked foodstuffs, creating a vastly greater surface area for our multiple species of symbiotes to live in.

Replacing that with salty fatty slime and booze wasn't the best idea.

DrEvidence - 23-6-2018 at 11:13

Exactly, I thought you'll oppose my theory. And I just quickly read wikipedia "cancer" article, and just in 20 seconds realized they do not oppose any of this theory. Well maybe they say that food is less percent of cause than naturopathy would say, but no, I thought I will come into something stupid. So: win, win, win :P

Wikipedia says already as I believed (as naturopathy or orthopathy and similar too, although they don't talk that it's possible to cure it but only prevent by bad habits/excesses). I thought I will come into opposition:

Tobacco use is the cause of about 22% of cancer deaths. Another 10% is due to obesity, poor diet, lack of physical activity, and excessive drinking of alcohol. Other factors include certain infections, exposure to ionizing radiation and environmental pollutants.

Many cancers can be prevented by not smoking, maintaining a healthy weight, not drinking too much alcohol, eating plenty of vegetables, fruits and whole grains, vaccination against certain infectious diseases, not eating too much processed and red meat, and avoiding too much sunlight exposure.

The only noticable difference is that naturopathy oposses drugs, surgery and anything artificial, because of its side effects. Naturopaths call these side-efects poisons. And mainstream/medicine theory considers some natural theories more dangerous. And alternative methods consider medical methods such as vaccination, medication, surgery more dangerous. And mainstream medicine talks less about natural cure but only talks about prevention with such methods.

Well, body is affected every day, either for better or for worse, and every day we are either reducing or increasing our (or chances for) cancers. Dynamic life and stuff. Basic law. Herbert Shelton calls many laws that affect health LAW OF THE LIFE. Meaning it works in everything, in all sciences...

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by DrEvidence]

JJay - 23-6-2018 at 11:15

Firefox suggests calcium silicide, ammonium chloride, chlorinated organics, phosphorus pentoxide (formed by burning phosphorus), potassium chloride (at high temperatures), sulfamic acid, thiourea, titanium dioxide, zinc, and zinc oxide, among others.

Apparently, mineral oil, propylene glycol, wax, terephthalic acid, powdered rubber, etc. can also be used as additives to make compositions give off more smoke.

I saw mercury (I) chloride mentioned somewhere, but that is surely a bad idea....


coppercone - 23-6-2018 at 11:50

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/939549969958051840/zs3n...

[Edited on 23-6-2018 by coppercone]

aga - 23-6-2018 at 12:24

'Cancer' is a terribly misused word.

There are so many types, causes, and variants that is impossible to say "X causes every cancer", and foolish to say "doing Y prevents all cancers".

The most popular, adenocarcinoma is likely to be related to eating habits and lifestyle. That makes logical sense.

Medical Scientists would be the people to ask about the Proof of that, not google, nor here.