bariumbromate
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The americilight
hi,
i want to make a closed spinthariscope 'tube' out of americium and silver doped zinc sulfide, to do this i am thinking of dissolving a smoke detector
button (or two) in conc hno3, Then putting the americium nitrate in a capillary tube (or any other thin glass tube) pre coated in zns:ag powder then
letting the americium nitrate dry (over p205 or calcium chloride), after that i will heat the nitrate till it ''turns'' into Americium(III) oxide.
is americium too dangerous to do chemistry with? i do have experience working with uranyl nitrate.
thanks in advance!
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bariumbromate
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Sulaiman
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from memory there is up to 300 ng of Am241 in a smoke alarm,
the capsule is commonly aluminium and the Am is sandwiched between silver and gold foils.
(it is a federal crime to disassemble an americium smoke alarm in usa)
the capsule is fairly safe to handle
but once a foil is pierced, or dissolved, take care!
the total brightness of a single Am capsule irradiating ZnS is so low that I need to dark-adapt my eyesight.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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bariumbromate
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That’s why I was thinking of dissolving multiple buttons to increase the activity and therefore brightness.
I am using “ion chambers” that contain 20 something micro curies of americium, they are way cheaper then vintage smoke detectors,
I will post pictures when done
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Radiums Lab
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Why not use the sulfate salt? In the radium watches they use simalar sulfate of Ra.
Water is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it, elemental fluorine (F₂) on the other hand is pretty tame if you know what you are doing.
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bariumbromate
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That’s why I was thinking of dissolving multiple buttons to increase the activity and therefore brightness.
I am using “ion chambers” that contain 20 something micro curies of americium, they are way cheaper then vintage smoke detectors,
I will post pictures when done
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bnull
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Why do I get the feeling that this is not a good idea?
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bariumbromate
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Of course it's not a good idea... ITS A GREAT IDEA
All jokes aside i am taking safety VERY seriously, i've got 3 large containers to catch anything, several geiger counters, radiacode and pancake tube,
+ thick vinyl gloves that resist nitric acid.
and a fume hood.
i could use the sulfate salt but you can't evaporate off excess sulfuric acid.
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charley1957
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I do believe that the Americium in a smoke detector is not in metallic form, but is an oxide of Americium, usually AmO2.
You can’t claim you drank all day if you didn’t start early in the morning.
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bariumbromate
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apparently warm/hot nitric acid can dissolve americium dioxide i am going to try that first
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Radiums Lab
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Amarecium will be pretty hot because of it's half life. The daughter products are scary. Be careful!
Water is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it, elemental fluorine (F₂) on the other hand is pretty tame if you know what you are doing.
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Sulaiman
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the above post may not be explicit enough ....
although Am is primarily an alpha emitter,
the capsules that I've had, emitted significant quantities of penetrating ionising radiation, I assume mostly gamma.
so an americium lamp should not be near people for any significant length of time, (microseconds 
it really should not exist at all - in my opinion.
Idea ....
you could make your lamp reasonably safe by completely encasing it in lead ........
(unless you drop the lamp on your feet)
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Metallophile
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I thought Am241 was used in smoke detectors because it has very weak gamma emmisions, and its daughter Np237 has a half life over 2 million years. So
the daughter products further down the chain won't even come into play on human timescales.
[Edited on 12/7/2025 by Metallophile]
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bariumbromate
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Wouldn't glass stop most of the alpha radiation? Plus isn't job of the zns:ag phosphor is to adsorb alpha radiation to be converted to light?
Before i dissolve the capsules i will first check their diameter, I may be able to get away with just slotting 1-2 capsules into the glass tube if the
diameter is small enough.
As mentioned in a previous post i am using ''ion chambers'' these were manufactured fairly recently so there are very little daughter products.
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Sulaiman
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this is what
I thought, until I used an SBM20 based geiger counter near the OUTSIDE of an operating smoke alarm.
I am fairly confident that my x10 magnifying glass protected my eye from alpha and beta,
but I never checked the energy of the penetrating radiation.
@bariumbromate
I am still concerned that the quantity of Am241 required to make a lamp,
would constitute a significant hazard even if there is no highly ionising radiation,
which I fear there would be.
and
do you have storage and disposal plans
So, rather than assuming that you will be safe, check first !
(any member that does not have at least one fairly sensitive geiger counter should not be playing with radioactive sources)
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Fulmen
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While we mostly talk about the α and ß emmisions these are usually (always?) accompanied by some gamma emissions. For Am241 it is around 60keV which
is in the same range as used in medical X-rays.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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Radiums Lab
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In Nurd Rage's radia code video he was able to show that Am emits beta too. Please rethink.
[Edited on 11-12-2025 by Radiums Lab]
Water is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it, elemental fluorine (F₂) on the other hand is pretty tame if you know what you are doing.
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Radiums Lab
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Get some Tritium tubes if you really want such lamps.
Water is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it, elemental fluorine (F₂) on the other hand is pretty tame if you know what you are doing.
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bariumbromate
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okay i won't make one if you insist.
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