Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2329
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: busy and in love
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What is worse
Sauron wrote:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8649
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The Endless Procession of Aspiring Criminals Aw, not another clueless wannabe trying to make phenyl-2-propanone. O3, drop this guy like a hot
rock. He's not interested in enolates other than as a way to make stuff with which to cook fucking meth.
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In the lead acetate thread he basically admitted to have cooked speed in 1977. (He edited his post later to make it look more legalistic but come on
thats obvious. Already in 1977 P2P was controlled for being the main ingredient in biker speed).
What is worse? Somebody who has interest in the chemistry surrounding the production of illegit substances or somebody who actually cooked speed?
(this assumption is better founded then the assumption that Hopeless wants to make speed, it follows the same logic though which is of course not
valid)
Lets think about it.
I personally regard Saurons post in the enolate thread as slander. The member has never expressed his interest in making amphetamines. The member
must not even be from the USA and in Europe P2P is NOT similar scheduled as amphetamines.
For if Hopeless wants to make speed then Sauron is an old speedcook. Same logic, more substance.
Sauron ows the member an apology and the thread should be treated as it is good tradition on this board: Interesting chemistry.
[Edited on 17-6-2007 by Organikum]
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Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2329
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: busy and in love
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Looked this quickly up: Here where I live, a country in the EU, making P2P, owning P2P, is not illegal at all. Making it or possessing it for the
purpose of making amphentamines would be illegal. But this would have to been proven first.
Thats going to far now.
Explosives are as illigal as drugs.
Most members of this board doing chemistry are criminals by definition.
And the poor guy got flamed and accused just for expressing interest in the chemistry of a compound which is not illegal in the bigger part of the
world?
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Mood: metastable
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First of all you misrepresent what I said. I said I produced P2P in the mid 1970s, at a time when it was NOT a Controlled Substance. I said nothing at
all about cooking meth. That is your surmise.
I actually prepared both phenylacetone and phenylacetyl chloride for a totally different purpose, at a university laboratory where I was a research
assistant, in connection with authorized work which resulted in a publication in Journal of Organic Chemistry. I could furnish you with the citation,
but then you would have my name, and it is not in my interest for a "clandustrial priest"like you, Organikum, to have that.
Honi soi qui mal y pens.
I could really care fucking less what you consider slander.
Hopeless posted asking about PRACTICAL METHODS TO MAKE ACETONE ENOLATE WITH OTC BASES AT HOME.
He exhibited zero interest in the mechanism, or keto-enol equilibrium. He was not interested in the optimum bases like LDA, everything he asked about
was geared toward making the enolate under primitive conditions.
Still no problem till he whipped out his reference to rxn of iodobenzene and acetone enolate.
Now, TELL me that this newbie was not asking how to MAKE phenylacetone. Of course he was.
And phenylacetone is controlled in a lot of countries besides the US. That includes the EU, and anywhere under the UNDC.
Those controls sis not exist in 1977, and I broke no law in making the stuff at that time, nor did I use it to make anything that did break the law of
that time. I used it to prepare some harmless unsymmetrical acetophenone pinacols with ring substituents. Big fucking deal. As I said in the thread
you are misquoting, all that stopped while Jimmy Carter was still president.
I am tired of being your personal punching bag, Orgie, and if you persist I am going to punch back.
Orgie unwisely and inaccurately states "Most members of this board doing chemistry are criminals by definition."
This is as stupid and arrogant a staement as I have seen. It is a disservice to every member of this forum and it is an insult to Polverone and to the
forum. This is an AMATUER CHEMISTRY forum. It is not The Hive, where Organikum hung out. Most members of this forum doing chemistry are NOT criminals,
de jure, de facto, or in any other way. I vigorously object to this characterization by Organikum, and I say he ought to be censured for it and
receive nothing but well deserved oprobrium from the members he calls criminals. He judges all by his own self. What do you think a "clandustrialist"
IS? That is his self-description. He wears it with pride. I say it is an albatross around his neck and now he seeks to drag everyone else here down to
his own murky illicit level.
If there are criminals in our midst it is high time we purged them. The Hive is no more and Rhodium is no more and there's a reason for that. If the
same fate befalls this forum it is the dopers and meth cooks we will have to thank for the loss.
[Edited on 17-6-2007 by Sauron]
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Waffles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 196
Registered: 1-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Sauron's personal history is as irrelevant as Hopeless' personal intentions for the reaction products.
The thread was not a 'cook' thread. I don't think Sauron should have jumped down the guy's throat- if you're suspicious of what he MIGHT do with the
reaction, just don't help him.
At the same time, I don't think Sauron's overeagerness in protecting the long-term survival of this forum justifies this thread that is actually one
large personal attack.
In other words- chill out.
\"…\'tis man\'s perdition to be safe, when for the truth he ought to die.\"
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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Nothing new. Organikum has been making ad hominem attacks on me publicly and privately for seven months, often peppered with oscenities.
I am not particularly upset as I have a thick skin and have been undere fire from far worse than witless barbs from a pompous fool.
I am quite upset about his thoughtless and detrimental description of most members of the forum as "criminals by definition".
And apparently he never read the FAQ in which the importance of explosives technology is explained. His statement that "explosives are just as illigal
as drugs" (with or without his misspelling of illegal, is fatuous. Are Dynamit Nobel or Dupont or Hercules a pack of criminals? No. But many
illegal drugs have little or no remaining legitimate medicinal use. A tiny amount of cocaine gets used in dentistry and an even tinier amount of
heroin in treatment of intractible pain (in oncological cases usually.) If any medicinal use remains for methamphetamine I am unaware of it. The
overwhelmingly vast majority of these substances are simply a scourge on mankind.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
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Consider the consequences of your actions, however those consequences may come to pass, and act accordingly.
The legal ramifications of chemistry are generally off-topic outside of Legal and Societal Issues. As a matter of general policy we don't encourage
"cooks" of any sort, but that is because lazy members who won't use chemists' terminology are a nuisance to everyone, not because of an expressed or
implied endorsement by the management of any particular legal code.
If someone starts what appears to be an obnoxious cooking thread, report it and mods will decide if the chemistry content is too low for it to live.
If it's left to live, you may certainly decline to participate, but don't drag it off-topic with accusations or legal warnings. I wouldn't tolerate
threads in the energetic materials subforum being derailed with legal/ethical discussion and I don't want it to happen elsewhere either.
I gave Organikum the "clandustrial priest" title and I bestowed it with admiration; he didn't pick that for himself.
I'd like to remind everyone in this thread, as well as anybody in the audience, that political discussion -- and this is what drug law discussions
always turn to unless people are seeking specific legal information -- has proven to be a persistent nuisance on this board and is no longer welcome.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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