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DrP
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 06:50
Split from "FBI Call: Need to Vent"


Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  

Quote:
How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway?


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish. I hope I helped you understand how your most basic rights work. You're welcome.




Your 'fundamental' rights? They stop somewhere. You don't have any fundamental right to rape another human being for example. Or to murder or steal. If you get caught doing so you get locked up and your freedom is taken away. So why do we have fundamental rights to make bombs? Are you sure that's a fundamental right?... Only - I am sure it isn't.... especially as it is against the law.



Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish.




No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?





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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:06


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?



The problem here, is the use of recreational drugs doesn't have any victim like torturing or hanging people, etc. If I grow some pot in my basement, who exactly did I victimize by this act? Big pharma or tobacco? Christians?

I just don't buy this.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:10


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?



The problem here, is the use of recreational drugs doesn't have any victim like torturing or hanging people, etc. If I grow some pot in my basement, who exactly did I victimize by this act? Big pharma or tobacco? Christians?

I just don't buy this.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]


Irrelevant though - it IS illegal (regardless of whether you or I think it should be or not)... so therefore NOT a fundamental right. Like making explosives is illegal and thus NOT a fundamental right as someone above claimed.





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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:15


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?



The problem here, is the use of recreational drugs doesn't have any victim like torturing or hanging people, etc. If I grow some pot in my basement, who exactly did I victimize by this act? Big pharma or tobacco? Christians?

I just don't buy this.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]


Irrelevant though - it IS illegal (regardless of whether you or I think it should be or not)... so therefore NOT a fundamental right. Like making explosives is illegal and thus NOT a fundamental right as someone above claimed.



What's illegal and what is a "right" are two different things under US law. Rights aren't conferred by the government.
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:20


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?



The problem here, is the use of recreational drugs doesn't have any victim like torturing or hanging people, etc. If I grow some pot in my basement, who exactly did I victimize by this act? Big pharma or tobacco? Christians?

I just don't buy this.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]


Irrelevant though - it IS illegal (regardless of whether you or I think it should be or not)... so therefore NOT a fundamental right. Like making explosives is illegal and thus NOT a fundamental right as someone above claimed.



What's illegal and what is a "right" are two different things under US law. Rights aren't conferred by the government.


Are you agreeing with the poster above that said you have a fundamental right to build a bomb in the peace and quite of your own home? I think the law would disagree with you. I am not disagreeing with you about what is legal and what is right - I am saying that you do not have any 'fundamental right' to build a bomb. It is illegal, so how is it a fundamental right?




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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:25


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?



The problem here, is the use of recreational drugs doesn't have any victim like torturing or hanging people, etc. If I grow some pot in my basement, who exactly did I victimize by this act? Big pharma or tobacco? Christians?

I just don't buy this.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]


Irrelevant though - it IS illegal (regardless of whether you or I think it should be or not)... so therefore NOT a fundamental right. Like making explosives is illegal and thus NOT a fundamental right as someone above claimed.



What's illegal and what is a "right" are two different things under US law. Rights aren't conferred by the government.


Are you agreeing with the poster above that said you have a fundamental right to build a bomb in the peace and quite of your own home? I think the law would disagree with you. I am not disagreeing with you about what is legal and what is right - I am saying that you do not have any 'fundamental right' to build a bomb. It is illegal, so how is it a fundamental right?


No, I didn't say that. Building a bomb in ones home obviously puts other people at risk (detonation, fires, hazardous materials, etc.).

And I think a "bomb" is different than fireworks.

Growing a plant in your house isn't equivalent to building bombs - that's why I thought your use of this example was not well thought out and I challenged it.


[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:31


Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  

Quote:
How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway?


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish. I hope I helped you understand how your most basic rights work. You're welcome.






Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Growing a plant in your house isn't equivalent to building bombs - that's why I thought your use of this example was not well thought out and I challenged it.
[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]




It was in reply to this statement about it being a fundamental right to make a bomb in your own home. It clearly isn't - regardless of how anyone feels about it. What is you point?




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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:37


I'm very confused now, because I wasn't part of that "bomb" conversation.

I gave my opinion when you equated the use of drugs to causing harm to people in various ways such as torturing or hanging people. TOTAL BUNK!!

No it isn't. Not in the USA anyway - you have not the right to take recreational drugs that are deemed illegal by the government. You have no right to hurt others etc... Therefore you do NOT have the fundamental right to do with your time and property as you wish. You can't torture people in your house. You can't hang people in the garden whilst wearing a white sheet over you with holes in the eyes whilst burning a wooden cross. There are many things that are illegal which most normal people wouldn't consider an infringement of their rights. What are you trying to say?

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:59



Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
I gave my opinion when you equated the use of drugs to causing harm to people in various ways such as torturing or hanging people. TOTAL BUNK!!
[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]


I didn't equate them as similar severities and you know it (or are just dumb). I said that they were illegal and you have no 'fundamental right' do them as the guy above was suggesting. He was saying we had a 'fundamental right' to make bombs or do whatever you want in your own home - you do not - what is your problem? Did you just fail to understand my point? How was it not clear?

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
TOTAL BUNK!!


TOTAL MORON




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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 08:06


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

I didn't equate them as similar severities and you know it (or are just dumb). I said that they were illegal and you have no 'fundamental right' do them as the guy above was suggesting.


Again, I think you're confusing a "right" with a "law".

Hint -- It was against the "law" in 1950 for a black person in the US to use the same water fountain as a white person.

I'll bet you have **no issue** with me stating that same black person had a "right" to use that water fountain.

See the difference?
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 08:25


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  

Again, I think you're confusing a "right" with a "law".

Hint -- It was against the "law" in 1950 for a black person in the US to use the same water fountain as a white person.

I'll bet you have **no issue** with me stating that same black person had a "right" to use that water fountain.

See the difference?


At the time they had no right to use it. The law forbade it and the general view was that they did not have the same rights.

We both know it is illegal to make explosives under the law - that we can clearly agree on. The other chap said he had the right to..... Are you saying you have the 'right' to break the law? Do you have the rights to make a bomb in the USA? (I thought the answer was no - but I stand to be corrected).

It was learning chem - Here:
Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  

Quote:
How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway?


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish. I hope I helped you understand how your most basic rights work. You're welcome.


I was arguing against this point (Which is why I quoted it in my reply and commented directly to it) - Do you agree with him? You have been arguing his point for the last page or so.




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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 08:33


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  

At the time they had no right to use it. The law forbade it and the general view was that they did not have the same rights.


They certainly *did* have that right (and incidentally, the Supreme Court of the US agreed). "Rights" aren't something conferred by governments -- they're social constructs based in Natural Law. Drinking from water fountains or smoking pot doesn't cause harm to others, and are therefore in alignment with Natural Law.

Building a bomb in one's house isn't equivalent to drinking out of a white water fountain or smoking pot.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 08:38


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  


Building a bomb in one's house isn't equivalent to drinking out of a white water fountain or smoking pot.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]


I used the pot, the murder and the rape as example of things that are illegal. You do not (as far as I am aware) have the right to do illegal things in the USA.

Make it clear - answer it plain - 'Do you have the right to build a bomb in the USA'? I would say no.


Building a bomb, raping another person, smoking pot, injecting heroin, storing stolen goods are all illegal in the USA and by normal definition of the word - you do not have the right to do any of these things. (Whether you do or not is up to you - if you get caught you pay the price).




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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 09:03


Quote:

I used the pot, the murder and the rape as example of things that are illegal. You do not (as far as I am aware) have the right to do illegal things in the USA. Make it clear - answer it plain - 'Do you have the right to build a bomb in the USA'? I would say no.


No, you don't have a right to build a bomb in the USA, because doing so will potentially deprive others of their right to life (and would violate Natural Law).

Quote:
Building a bomb, raping another person, smoking pot, injecting heroin, storing stolen goods are all illegal in the USA and by normal definition of the word - you do not have the right to do any of these things. (Whether you do or not is up to you - if you get caught you pay the price).


I have a right to smoke pot and inject heroin.

I don't have a right to store stolen goods (or build bombs in my home or rape people). The difference is, storing stolen goods (or building dangerous offensive weapons, or rape) deprives others of their right to property or life or liberty, and would be in conflict with Natural Law.

My grandfather was a prisoner in Dachau. They built all kinds of makeshift weapons and build up a clandestine resistance and eventually escaped, killing several Nazi guards in the process. I would argue they not only had the ***right*** to do so, but they had a ***moral imperative*** to do so.

I can almost guarantee they violated Nazi law when they made this escape, but I'm not an expert in Nazi law so I can't be sure of this.... All of them were conferred the Silver Star w/Valor.

If they followed your narrow legalistic view, they would have remained compliant and would end up in a gas chamber.

[Edited on 13-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]
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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 10:37


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  

I have a right to smoke pot and inject heroin.


OK - I'm talking legal right - maybe a communication error beween us. I didn't mean to call you a moron - I never thought you were - I was being childish in responding to you calling my statement bunk - sorry.

I hope all goes well for the OP and I am sure he isn't doing anything wrong - I have never implied anything of the sort. I ike the guy. I was just trying to play advocate in the thread with the idea that it is the job of the police to investigate certain things. idk - maybe my ignorence of life in your country is showing.





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[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 11:03


I'm going to split off this tangent since it really derailed the point of the thread but seems to be somewhat resolved now.



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