| Pages:
1
2 |
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
I don't see why any of this stuff would warrent such anger and name calling. Sauron and LSD25, these are just words, please let it be. Shall we just
discuss the issues?
"Because no such law would be held to be constitutional."
Sauron, I don't know too much about law but I do know and feel that in many instances this may no longer be true. Without naming them I can think of
several instances where things that would normally be considered unconstitutional were allowed if security or swift prosecution of a prominent
criminal (one that the govt. REALLY doesn't like) is needed. It is getting worse, too. We all know that.
So, maybe all of what LSD25 is saying is not likely, today. Is it wrong to think that this might be the case in the near future? At least on drug
and terrorist issues that are "pertinent to national security".
I just think you put too much faith in this country's ability to hold to it's founding principles in the face of greed, corruption, anger, insecurity
and general adversity. I think things like this could indeed, in certain circumstances, be held to be "constitutional". I mean, hell, the PATRIOT
Act is law, is it not? How many of the abuses in that act would have been thought of as constitutional 200 years ago? I suspect very few.
It's the same with the current trend of firearm regulation since 1934, but I shall not get into that particular no man's land.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
Pulverulescent
National Hazard
Posts: 793
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!
|
|
Having recovered, I'll try being serious!
As I said on Entrapment, though the depressing picture LSD25 painted at the outset mightn't be a reality yet, chances are that's the way things are
heading.
9/11 changed everything and measures legislators might have balked at previously, are now seen as necessary somehow, to counter the threat of this
(new) terrorism.
Law-abiding hobby chemists will be affected wherever they live.
I can't get AA, but if I could, I wouldn't be excited about putting some kind of ketene generator together manana.
Adversity isn't always a bad thing!
P
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
I see constitutional problems with RICO, which is a product of a Bobby Kennedy protege.
Many see similar problems with parts of the Patriot Act.
I am not a fan of civil property forfeiture (used to finance the WOD.)
But I do not see erosion of the First Amendment and that is what we are talking about.
And of course you don't see reason for vitriol, but I assure you MJP, if this down-under dunderhead had called you a ladyboy lover and/or a pedophile,
you's be out for his scalp, too, scabrous and infested though it may be.
I have had formal schooling in constitutional law and the history of the Supreme Court and what impressed me and had been retained all these years is
the extent to which the Supremes are really independent of the Presidents, even those who appointed them. Time and again a justice who one president
or another placed on SCOTUS to implement that president's agenda, turned on him as soon as his jurisprudential rump warmed to the leather of his comfy
judge's chair. James Madison was frustrated by John Marshall, FDR failed to pack the Court, Nixon failed to pack the Court. No president since has
fared any better. Make no mistake about it, the defense of the Constitution rests with those nine justices and not with what MacArthur called "the
temporary occupants of the WHite House" nor with that rabble of scalliwags and drunks on Capitol Hill. That is the institution I have more faith in.
I think LSD25 knows about zip about American con law, and less than zip about Supreme Court history. I've seen sharper legal scholars scurrying around
barnyards with their heads cut off, and brighter legal analysts floating on their bellies at the bottom of scummy ponds. In short he is pathetically,
relentlessly, almost magically half-witted, legally speaking. "Sodding dim" does not begin to convey the depth and breadth of his inadequacy in that
regard. He does not enlighten, he obscures, like a giant squid emptying its ink-sack. Day becomes night. Fiction is proposed as fact. Down is up.
Wrong is right. False is true. Dogs and cats lie down together. Madness reigns. Arabs and Jews set up light housekeeping.
The end of civilization as we know it.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
|
|
|
Pulverulescent
National Hazard
Posts: 793
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!
|
|
Whew!
Anyway, a few years ago I'd half-seriously considered supplying smallish quantities of very cheap, slightly impure NH4N03, by post, to people
anywhere, who either couldn't get it, or would be ripped off if they did.
In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't follow up on it, knowing now how Ireland's political classes like cosying up to US admins.
If I had though, I wonder would I have faced extradition proceedings if I'd been caught redhanded, let's say.
The answer, I think, is probably, yes! (cold shiver!)
P
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
| Quote: | | And of course you don't see reason for vitriol, but I assure you MJP, if this down-under dunderhead had called you a ladyboy lover and/or a pedophile,
you's be out for his scalp, too, scabrous and infested though it may be. |
True, but others would still be saying what I said, trying to "make peace". I still can't believe he took it to that level, though.
I do see erosion of the First Amendment. IMO, the Second Amendment was/is first to go out the window. All it is going to take is for people to
tolerate it and turn an apathetic, blind eye. I mean as long as we have our SUVs, money and hunting rifles, who cares (that is the opinion of many, I
know this for a fact)? It is almost the natural order of things for a government to assume as much control as possible. Give it one inch... And
we've been giving inches for decades.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
Gun control is a topic regarded as anathema by Polverone, so let's stay off it. We could go to U2U but you are preaching to the choir on that one. You
know full well I suffered at the hands of the ATF and was more or less forced into exile. But it's a non-topic here, so, fuck it.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
|
|
|
Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
|
|
I'm closing this. LSD25, bring it up again and you will be banned. You're apparently incapable of rational or civil discussion of the topic.
EDIT: Actually, that goes for everyone else too. As expected it's turned into another broad and vitriolic argument and I don't see why it would fare
any better in the future.
[Edited on 5-7-2008 by Polverone]
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
