Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1    3  4
Author: Subject: DIY Atom Smasher
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 18:23
DIY Atom Smasher


Well I've been working on a home made cyclotron for some time and I'm far enough along with the project that I figured I could start to document my progress on here.
I just aquired a Cyber Research touch screen computer for $45.00. I will be rack mounting this and this will be part of the cyclotron controll system. I plan on using it to store diagnostic information from the cyclotron and eventually I plan on using it to help controll it.
I will also be hooking a Digital Storage Oscilloscope up to the unit.

IM001724.jpg - 75kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Twospoons
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1286
Registered: 26-7-2004
Location: Middle Earth
Member Is Offline

Mood: A trace of hope...

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 18:25


I'd be interested to see the rest of your progress. What sort of energies are you aiming for?



Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 18:49


I'll get a few more pictures on here shortly.
I'm aiming for energies in the 600Kev range possibly higher. I think 800Kev will be the max and that's pushing it. I'd preffer higher energies but there's only so much you can do at home on a budget and limited resources. I should be able to conduct all kinds of experiments with this unit though. For starters I wouldn't mind running it at really low energy levels to bombard/ dope silicon substrates with heavy metals.
Here is a picture of some of the vacuum pumping lines.

IM001728.JPG - 135kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 19:56


Yours already looks fancier than Lawrence's original double-D (that's two capital-D-shaped metal plates, thank you very much) cyclotron, which was made of blown glass. Thought lost, it was found a few years ago in an old desk of Oppenheimer's when cleaning out his office.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 20:27


Well I've been trying my best to make a good research grade machine that is easier to use. Hear is a picture of the cyclotron cavity.

s706295003_753240_8829.jpg - 6kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
12AX7
Post Harlot
*****




Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline

Mood: informative

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 20:43


I hope you have applied for a license. It would be a shame if your beautiful apparatus produced unshielded radiation and gave people (not the least yourself) cancer.

Tim




Seven Transistor Labs LLC http://seventransistorlabs.com/
Electronic Design, from Concept to Layout.
Need engineering assistance? Drop me a message!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 21:06


I am currently building, assembling, and testing the parts at home but I will actually be moving the machine over to my local university (St. Cloud State University) when all of the parts are finished and it's ready to to be turned on for the first time. I have several professors over there that have been involved in helping me build this machine. The chamber was made over at St. Cloud State University under one of my professors direct supervision. In fact he helped me machine it. He is also going to help me machine the pole faces too. I also had a nuclear chemist that teaches at St. Cloud State lend me a high vacuum diffusion pump. He also said that he has plenty of geiger counters and radiac meters for monitoring the cyclotron.
I've got a nuclear chemist, nuclear physicist, chemist, machinist, and the Dean of students for the universities science and engineering dept that fully support this project. I plan on giving a presentation on this at the university once the machine is up and operating.
The main reason that I am building and testing most of the parts at home is because I don't have to drive back and forth to and from state just to work on this unit which would be hard with my work schedule.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
12AX7
Post Harlot
*****




Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline

Mood: informative

[*] posted on 20-8-2008 at 21:54


Ah, sweet deal. But then that leaves this: it's a shame you can't test it on the spot once you've finished all the parts! :D

Tim




Seven Transistor Labs LLC http://seventransistorlabs.com/
Electronic Design, from Concept to Layout.
Need engineering assistance? Drop me a message!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Arrhenius
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 282
Registered: 17-8-2008
Location: US & A
Member Is Offline

Mood: Stochastic

[*] posted on 21-8-2008 at 11:07


Looks excellent! I had dreams of building one of these when I was younger. Started gathering parts for the magnet, and some vacuum stuff, but ended up in college... and hobbies went out the window :( . Would you mind talking about the planned ion source? I don't really know much beyond hot filaments to produce protons, and would be interested to know how one can practically accelerate larger metal ions. What do you get by bombarding silicon like this?

12AX7: you really need a license to accelerate small masses? I'd doubt you're going to run into any legal issues, as i'm not aware of any way to make anything too dangerous with a cyclotron (other than some bremstralung radiation for yourself).

[Edited on 21-8-2008 by Arrhenius]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
12AX7
Post Harlot
*****




Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline

Mood: informative

[*] posted on 21-8-2008 at 16:25


Mass doesn't matter, energy does. Past a few hundred keV (I forget if it's 200 or 500, and it probably varies) it needs to be licensed with the NRC or whatever.

First hit on Google comes from Pennsylvania:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/brp/Radiation_Control_Division/Ac...

Tim




Seven Transistor Labs LLC http://seventransistorlabs.com/
Electronic Design, from Concept to Layout.
Need engineering assistance? Drop me a message!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-8-2008 at 18:10


In minnesota a license isn't required until the device is ready for operation. So basically the cyclotron can't be fired up until a license has been gotten. This unit is quite small though and I doubt that it will pose any health hazards. I believe Rutgers university has a small 1Mev cyclotron and the ionization radiation is pretty much absorbed by the magnet and the chamber.
That being said there is always a potential danger and that is why all appropriate radiation signs, rf interlocks, Lockout switches, emergancy shut of switches, dosimeters, and radiac meters will be utilized once the unit is ready to run and is re-assembled at St. Cloud State University.
Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
Mass doesn't matter, energy does. Past a few hundred keV (I forget if it's 200 or 500, and it probably varies) it needs to be licensed with the NRC or whatever.

First hit on Google comes from Pennsylvania:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/brp/Radiation_Control_Division/Ac...

Tim
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-8-2008 at 18:19


I have one 120vac outlet running into my garage and no running water. There is no way that I could even possibly bring the unit into full operation. It would draw too much power and pop the circuit breaker. Not to mention the fact that the electromagnet would start on fire.
I can test the individual components and control systems for proper functioning. In otherwords I can test the vacuum system and the controls separately. Once I get my 7inch cyclotron finished then I can bring the parts over to SCSU and set it up.


Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
Ah, sweet deal. But then that leaves this: it's a shame you can't test it on the spot once you've finished all the parts!

Tim
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-8-2008 at 21:01


The cyclotron is currently set up to produce ions through impact ionization using a heated filament. Heavy ions could be produced by simply evaporating or sputtering a metal source and then ionizing the gas that forms. You can also produce ions from high density plasmas that are formed in a multicusp rf driven ion source that uses permanent magnets and an rf coil to strike the plasma which can then be shot into the cyclotron.
If heavy ions are shot at low energies towards silicon they can be lodged into the silicon matrix. They can also destroy the silicon matrix and crystaline structure if they have to much energy.
Quote:
Originally posted by Arrhenius
Looks excellent! I had dreams of building one of these when I was younger. Started gathering parts for the magnet, and some vacuum stuff, but ended up in college... and hobbies went out the window :( . Would you mind talking about the planned ion source? I don't really know much beyond hot filaments to produce protons, and would be interested to know how one can practically accelerate larger metal ions. What do you get by bombarding silicon like this?

12AX7: you really need a license to accelerate small masses? I'd doubt you're going to run into any legal issues, as i'm not aware of any way to make anything too dangerous with a cyclotron (other than some bremstralung radiation for yourself).

[Edited on 21-8-2008 by Arrhenius]


[Edited on 21-8-2008 by Trifluoroacetic]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Arrhenius
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 282
Registered: 17-8-2008
Location: US & A
Member Is Offline

Mood: Stochastic

[*] posted on 26-8-2008 at 12:15


Cool. Mind talking about the oscillator and amplifier?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
gregxy
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 421
Registered: 26-5-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 26-8-2008 at 12:36


Look at the legal troubles that the "Ghost Busters" got into
for having an unlicensed atom smasher.
You don't want that to happen to you!

For my PhD research we used the 88" cyclotron at Berkeley.
I remember that before I went to Berkeley I expected it to be
this little 88" box sitting on someones desk. In reality it
takes up a whole building and has 3 foot thick concrete walls for shielding. The only part that would fit on a
desk was the RF oscillator.

We used 100MeV ions to simulate cosmic ray upsets in chips.



Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
Mass doesn't matter, energy does. Past a few hundred keV (I forget if it's 200 or 500, and it probably varies) it needs to be licensed with the NRC or whatever.

First hit on Google comes from Pennsylvania:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/brp/Radiation_Control_Division/Ac...

Tim
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 26-8-2008 at 13:21


Right now I am just using a low voltage rf signal generator. I will be using a 200W ENI HPG-2 Rf signal generator to amplify the signal. The ENI rf generator has an internal adjustable frequency generator but it only goes up to 375khz; I plan on disconnecting the internal frequency generator and bypassing it. I will feed in my own signal from an external source.
The ENI unit is capable of generating high voltages and is used for the generation of rf plasmas.


Quote:
Originally posted by Arrhenius
Cool. Mind talking about the oscillator and amplifier?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-8-2008 at 16:46


Well I'm temporarily fitting the cyclotron parts together in order to get the correct placement of holes and brackets. I am still working on the roughing system below the table and building parts for it. Once I have finished building and buying the parts then I will be able clean all of the high vacuum parts and assemble them and begin testing the sytem.
I still need to machine the pole faces for the electromagnet yet.
The blue and red magnet is a compact experimental unit that is being used as the main magnet until I can save up enough money for a larger more powerful magnet. When I get a larger magnet I will use that as the cyclotron magnet and the blue and red magnet will eventually be used for analyzing the ion beam that is extracted from the cyclotron.

IM001740.JPG - 159kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Arrhenius
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 282
Registered: 17-8-2008
Location: US & A
Member Is Offline

Mood: Stochastic

[*] posted on 29-8-2008 at 12:42


Cool. Depending on the high voltage feed throughs to the Dees, you may be able too hook up a high voltage transformer from a neon sign or something like this to get a big plasma going in the chamber in order to boil off contaminants and get a lower vacuum. Just a thought, I've seen it done with vacuum coating techniques. Perhaps the oscillator itself will serve this purpose. What sorts of manual valves have you got on there?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-8-2008 at 13:21


The manual valves are high pressure valves but I found them for $5.00 so I figured I'd give them a try. If they leak then I'll need to replace them with MDC high vacuum valves which are very expensive. These valves look quite sound. I don't think they will be a problem. The big one was about 45.00 originally but the place that was selling them was liquidating all of they're inventory so they could close. These were made for high pressure gas and steam applications.

I've been thinking about possibly hooking an nst transformer up to the chamber and dee just to remove excess water vapor as I pump the unit down.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-8-2008 at 13:28


I also have a swajelok shutoff valve on the gas administering line with a NuPro metering vave. There is also a Nupro valve on the vacuum roughing line.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
atomicproject
Harmless
*




Posts: 12
Registered: 4-4-2006
Location: Livermore California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Thermonuclear

[*] posted on 29-8-2008 at 20:49


Excellent Work!! I have plans to build one as well. Attached is a picture of the magnet I plan on using. Got it for a "steal", just $400. All tested and certified to work. My chamber will be made of heavy borosilicate as opposed to one of metallic orgin.

Specific to your design, I do have a question. Usually the pole faces have to be of at least the same diameter of your chamber. If not, the field will not be homogenous to the proposed orbital path causing a diffuse beam spread coupled with problematic focusing and diminished output. How will you resolve this issue?

Mark
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-8-2008 at 13:40


I'm going to start out with a two large 7in X 4 inch peices of low carbon steel and taper the pole faces down to about 6in. Will also taper the other side of the pole face down to about 2.5 in; this side will mate up to the magnetic core and also support the red coils. I plan on also installing two shim coils. This magnet will only be temporary. I plan on buying a much larger electromagnet to replace it. This magnet will eventually be used for ion beam analysis.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-8-2008 at 13:43


I don't think your attatchment showed up. I'd like to see your magnet.
Quote:
Originally posted by atomicproject
Excellent Work!! I have plans to build one as well. Attached is a picture of the magnet I plan on using. Got it for a "steal", just $400. All tested and certified to work. My chamber will be made of heavy borosilicate as opposed to one of metallic orgin.

Specific to your design, I do have a question. Usually the pole faces have to be of at least the same diameter of your chamber. If not, the field will not be homogenous to the proposed orbital path causing a diffuse beam spread coupled with problematic focusing and diminished output. How will you resolve this issue?

Mark
View user's profile View All Posts By User
atomicproject
Harmless
*




Posts: 12
Registered: 4-4-2006
Location: Livermore California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Thermonuclear

[*] posted on 30-8-2008 at 19:47


Sorry about that, my original file was too large.

Here it is. The adjustable pole faces are just over 4 inches.

Magnet.jpg - 38kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Trifluoroacetic
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 128
Registered: 6-8-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 31-8-2008 at 12:43


Well (Atomic Project) That is a beautiful magnet. So what are the diameters of the pole faces? How much does it weigh, and is it fairly easy to move arround. I am planning on purchasing a magnet arround that size too sometime in the future in order to make my machine more powerful. Have you built your chamber yet? When you do feel free to post some pictures. I would love to see them.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1    3  4

  Go To Top