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chloric1
International Hazard
Posts: 1070
Registered: 8-10-2003
Location: GroupVII of the periodic table
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Mood: Stoichiometrically Balanced
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Another way to stop terrorism is to stop being terrorists.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
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Mood: crystalline
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The point is, the data is only threatened to be copied because it is so easy.
They are not threatening of copying or analysing every book or letter, photograph that enters the country, right?
Thus I think it is done for reasons other than counterterrorism. It's a matter of the US wanting to stick its finger into possibly every citizen that
lives on this planet and has means to travel- a global database of all humans alive or somesuch, their interconnections and their patterns, with the
US pulling all the strings. I simply mistrust the data hunger of the US - becuase it seeks it solely for the purpose of more power. Again it is the
only country that takes prints of all ten fingers, and a photograph (Brazil does now the same as retaliation). What right do they have to do this?
I agree the Euros are weaklings because they don't retaliate in a similar fashion, to insist on 40 datasets on personal information on american
citizens, take fingerprints, photographs, and arbitrarily confiscate laptops, copy and analyse data. Becuase after all they might have child porn,
plot an attack or whatever. Nevermind the 99.99% that don't. But if every country started behaving in a similar way - do you really think that this
would help the world community - guess don't need to answer that. 7 years later, the bottom line of 9/11 is its shameful abuse of power for more
power, the shameful introduction of a new 1984.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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This from a citizen of a country which has no real press freedom (D-notices cannot exist in USA), no right to keep and bear arms, and antiterrism laws
that are far more draconian than anything the US has, and which have been in place far longer than the mere 7 years since 9/11.
The British have been torturing prisoners in Ireland for centuries. The Americans subject three, only three, terrorist leaders to the very mild
technique of waterboarding, which if you ever read a detailed descripotion of it, is laughable, and we get all this high moral tone from the
Europeans, including the British.
Waterboarding involves restraining the subject face up on an inclined board so that the feet are raised and head is lowered, covering the face or at
least the nostrils and mouth with clear plastic (like saran, cling wrap) and slowly pouring water over the plastic. No water enters the sinuses or
lungs or anywhere else. It is entirely psychological duress, not torture. Yes 2 of the three terrorist leaders including Khalid, ops chief of Al
Quaeda, started spouting information within a few seconds. Valuable operational information that helped prevent major attacks.
This is another of the few things I am really proud of as an American.
The French of course would have just handed them to their famous Service Action aka Action Direct and used electricity on them.
The Israelis, much the same.
I'm sure detailed firsthand accounts of British Army interrogation techniques from Belfast and the rest of Ulster are available on the net.
HYPOCRITES!
[Edited on 12-9-2008 by Sauron]
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
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| Quote: | The point is, the data is only threatened to be copied because it is so easy.
They are not threatening of copying or analysing every book or letter, photograph that enters the country, right?
Thus I think it is done for reasons other than counterterrorism. It's a matter of the US wanting to stick its finger into possibly every citizen that
lives on this planet and has means to travel- a global database of all humans alive or somesuch, their interconnections and their patterns, with the
US pulling all the strings. I simply mistrust the data hunger of the US - becuase it seeks it solely for the purpose of more power. Again it is the
only country that takes prints of all ten fingers, and a photograph (Brazil does now the same as retaliation). What right do they have to do this?
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I do not see the connection of your last post to the above. I smell a strawman.
I also do not see how my nationality (or from other members, as you repeatedly smell hypocrisy based on the place of birth?? ) does come into play with respect to the extraordinary measures the US is
single-handedly undertaking in the name of 'national security' (I'm referring to my first post, and the post prior to your last one). My
criticism and worry thereof is again unrelated to the country I might live in or have grown up in.
But I very much see the tendencies of today's world, particularly of those countries that think they 'can': More control, more monitoring, more direct
infringements into privacy, and so on. The US is the worlds forerunner for a country so explicitly democratic and 'free'. Followed by China and
numerous others, but at least they don't claim the former.
And the question is, what right do they have, to invade your thoughts, your life, your space just because you enter a country, buy certain goods,
read certain information or news? This is a question that baffled several Chinese I asked, I imagine this is becoming a strange question on the other
side of the Atlantic, too.
You are correct, the solution is to not travel there. Oh, believe me, other countries, in particular some European ones, think it's fashionable to
follow the American lead: Online monitoring & data storage, text messaging surveillance, introduction of government Trojans to check out your
computer - the list goes on. But I grant you that, without the steps taken by the US in the first place, this wouldn't happen here (Western Europe). I
have in fact about as much scorn for some European politicans or governments. I certainly include Britain too.
It is beyond me why someone who endorses removal of all restrictions to drugs (to which I might even agree) is so happy to restrict personal privacy
and freedom and personal space so readily; to go beyond, and endorse potentially arbitrary searches, detainment and torture, whilst taking pride in
it. Particularly, given that this very policy of privacy enchroachment, enacted abroad in the form of missiles and wars, serves ultimately only to
perpetuate the cycle of more freedom infringements back at home (or in the West at large).
To quote Benjamin Franklin:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
What more is there to be said?
[Edited on 13-9-2008 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Mood: metastable
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Boring and argumentative.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
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Mood: informative
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
Boring and argumentative. |
So no rebuttal = concede the point?
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Mood: metastable
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I did not discern any point worth anyone's attention. Certainly not mine.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
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Good.
In this case let's get back on topic and in the future keep your wild off-topic rantings and cheap provocations to yourself.
Edit: | Quote: | | Boring and argumentative. |
Now that you remind me - that certainly applies to a good fraction of your average 6 messages per day. I'll be keeping an eye out.
[Edited on 13-9-2008 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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Here we have a so called Moderator abusing his ill-granted petty authority to censor someone who he has repeatedly proked.
You really are a hypocrite, chemoleo.
Go ahead and abuse your petty officialdom some more. The wole world is watching.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
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Scoff all you want - posts WILL be edited or deleted if you fail to keep your tone civil, and if the sole purpose is to insult or have the last word.
You are no exception to any other member.
Edit: Thread closed, it is not a repository for insults. Threads leaning political here really are impossible. Apologies for raising the subject.
[Edited on 13-9-2008 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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