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Author: Subject: The Origin of Consciousness & Conscience

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[*] posted on 8-12-2003 at 16:27
a raving lunatic bangs on the keyboard, results below


And most scary and rational is this one: We are aware only because evolution/nature bred as to be be so, it is an individual thing that rises and declines with death.
You, as your own reference of awareness, only ever exists once, to witness the universe and once dead everything is gone from that individual.... for there is noone to even perceive that loss (as you are dead)... without awareness, no perception of loss!!!
Hence, once dead, the universe is nonexistant for that individual.

I know in large part this particular fear is a cultural thing, but I don't find it scary at all. In fact, I can think of many reasons why I would not want to exist eternally, but I am extremely thankful for the time I am given.


*A dog that steels food displays certain body language signals that show guilt, trained or not. To feel guilty, dont you think that requires a certain level of consciousness? Is guilt linked to awareness of oneself, else how could you perceive guilt? A bird wont show it, neither a reptile, but a dog does!

I think that it'd be kind of hard to detect guilt from an animal with a face that has no eyebrows and is made of scales. Likewise for the bird made of feathers. Drooping one's head or other macro-motions aren't necessary to express guilt either. Of course we don't have the luxury of direct communication with most species like we do with dogs.


Almost every animal responds to outside stimuli, a dog will sit if it's master says "sit" (we hope) This doesn't reach the level of self awareness. Could we theorize that self awareness is when the animal tries to PREDICT what will happen in the future, without a direct stimulus. As you sit at your desk, you ponder the meaning of evolution, the future of the human race, and what will happen tomorrow. You are self aware, of your place in time, space and other variables. What do you think?

If we assumed that an animal does indeed do the things you mentioned, how would we ever know for sure? We can't communicate with them efficiently enough to find out.


Does the monkey use the tool because it was taught that using this tool for that reason will solve this problem? Or does the monkey actually invent the tool because it saw a need and desired a solution?

Man invents tools, not just uses them. Man changes man's environment to improve man's future. Man most definately is conscious.

So consciousness is the ability to... create technology that will give the species a competitive edge, allow them to create a habitat within many enviroments, communicate with any other over virtually any earth-distance insantly, and eventually maybe even have the ability to control evolution (or atleast engineer and introduce specific new variants of species at an unprecedented rate), all of this essentially done to improve the life of the species and reproduce (something all species do)?


2) I believe that sooner or later science will prove the existence to an entire level of reality based upon interactions of energy to which humanity in general has not fully appreciated before because we have always concerned our beliefs of existence to be that which is defined as having matter or having influence upon matter. As such notions like 'gods' may end up being proven as beings which do exist, but exist in states that are intrinsicly non-material. At such a point in time whether or not such beings are truly 'gods' will then of course become the point of debate instead of merely debating their existence. And as such the world will continue to turn without missing a beat.

I think that's basically where the world is at now. Nobody in science tries to come up with a theory for the origin/creation of energy, for that is religion. Even material ideas still retain their element of magic. Of course, religion must allow for the compliance with science or lose credibility, and any and all that survive eventually will, or science won't. Any religion that still tries to claim the sun rotates around the earth better be waiting for their next chance to be picked up by hale-bopp, or else the society must exist in isolation and make sure they successfully censor all of it's budding scientists.


most christians don't really understand Theological theory much at all.

It seems like many christians say this. Isn't that why seperate denominations were created within christianity, because they disagreed about how to interpret it?


Isn't it impossible to define a definition that really has no starting point???

to put it more understandably

Is it not futile to apply scientific reasoning to the ART of psychology.......?

Yes. While I think scientific reasoning can still have application (it is, after all, logic) here, the title of this thread has constrained it to non-scientific conclusions only. At least at present.
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[*] posted on 9-12-2003 at 04:03

[Edited on 9-12-2003 by AngelEyes]
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[*] posted on 9-12-2003 at 20:10


most christians don't really understand Theological theory much at all.


It seems like many christians say this. Isn't that why seperate denominations were created within christianity, because they disagreed about how to interpret it?

end quote

Actually gritty cyst....I sorta meant that most "christians" were ignorant on a more basic level.

For an example, let me take my little brothers girlfriend, while driving to school one day (we all go to the same university)I asked her if she was religious, she replied YES! I am a Lutheran.

I says"Well that's a respectable religion", "Western Civilization has never been the same since Martin Luther nailed his theses to the door of the church at Wittenburg"

she says..."Martin Who?"

I says, "Y'know...Martin Luther...the guy your religion was named after....?"

she says...."oh...ah...oh ya....."

I say ignorant because I know she isn't stupid, she's got a poli-sci degree, a year in Law school and is now working on her degree in Kinesiology.

This is just one example, but it illustrates a point. Most churchgoers (even some of the faithful) go because it's simply something they have been doing since childhood.

They spend church looking at the ceiling, singing songs and dropping a few dimes in the collection plate. They leave feeling a little better, so it's time well spent I guess.

and its amazing to see the paralels between most of humanities different faiths.

Having been raised strict baptist, and then reading about/discussing and participating in many different faiths, Judaism, Islam, a couple of the Hindu sects, Zoroastrianism, Bhuddism etc.etc...

I have learned a fair bit about different world religions, and how little most adherents actually know about their various faiths. Force of habit is a powerful motivating force for a lot of people.

p.s. lately I have been exploring Nihilist thought....disturbing, but neat!!! :cool:

[Edited on 10-12-2003 by Hermes_Trismegistus]

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
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