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Author: Subject: Xylitol Pentanitrate (question)?
Rich_Insane
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[*] posted on 6-6-2009 at 13:31
Xylitol Pentanitrate (question)?


Has anyone had experience with Xylitol instead of Erythritol or Pentaerythritol? I did a quick search, and couldn't find anything. Where I live, xylitol is a popular replacement for sugar, and is more accessible than Erythritol.

Apparently Xylitol Pentanitrate is a highly viscous liquid energetic, so it wouldn't hurt to use the same nitration process used when preparing ETN.

This thread has a good preparation of MHN (Mannitol Hexanitrate), which I'd think to be similar, and a failed XPN synthesis: http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=4437

Perhaps an ETN-style nitration would work, or an NG one (which is posted lower). Basically I'd say it's the same synth as ETN.

[Edited on 6-6-2009 by Rich_Insane]
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 6-6-2009 at 13:52


I'm in Europe and got my erythritol from a US company whose name I forget.
It could be Nutrasweet!
I got mannitol on ebay from a UK seller and I'm not a UK resident. . .
Viscous energetics are maddeningly awkward to handle especially when they're sticky!


[Edited on 7-6-2009 by hissingnoise]
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Rich_Insane
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[*] posted on 6-6-2009 at 21:06


I can imagine :)

But wouldn't they be a little easier to plasticize?

For me, I may not have searched hard enough, but most health stores (one close to me) sell Xylitol in 5 lb sacks, which is good.

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[*] posted on 7-6-2009 at 01:10


If iam not mistaking xylitol penta nitrate is a crystalline solid, but only if it is pure enough.
The trouble with these things is that they are not easy to fully nitrate so a sticky mixture is found.So crystallisation is an absolute must.
I believe this is the reason for bad MHN yields only the lower nitrates remain in solution.

Besides this stuff makes runaway like dropping acetone in NA/SA.
Just like a sucrose and friends.




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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 7-6-2009 at 04:23


Nutrasweet sell erythritol in 5lb bags---the coarse crystals need to be powdered before nitration. . .
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Rich_Insane
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[*] posted on 7-6-2009 at 09:36


Hm. I will give a 10 g - 20 g a try sometime using the same Synth as used with ETN.

Unfortunately I don't have a ball mill, and cannot afford one, so I will either grind the crystals with a coffee grinder or with a mortar and pestle.
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MWRAY236466
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[*] posted on 12-6-2009 at 09:40


Im from florida, does anybody know where can I get some Xylitol, Erythritol or Mannitol???

No info on web about Xylitol pentanitrate.... But has a good OB!

Did somebody try to get MHN by nitration of mannose??
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 12-6-2009 at 10:11


This is from COPAE, mannitol is prepared by reduction of mannose; nitration of mannose gives mannose pentanitrate, a compound with good OB but poor stability.
It melts at 81*C and it decomposes rapidly at temperatures as low as 50*C. . .


[Edited on 12-6-2009 by hissingnoise]
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Rich_Insane
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[*] posted on 13-6-2009 at 17:25


Yea, I was worried about preparing this kind of explosive, because I've heard that the stability is poor. I was looking into more liquid explosives, especially very viscous ones that I can plasticize fairly easily.

Unfortunately I cannot do an ETN style nitration just yet, since I have yet to wait for my equipment and chemicals to arrive.

The link I posted had a good synthesis of MHN, however the XPN synthesis there ended up as a failure.
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[*] posted on 17-6-2009 at 06:11


I think XPN is s very good HE.... But i didnt hear about someone that finished the nitration. A man posted a video about "XPN" but it was crystals. XPN is a liquid exp.
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[*] posted on 20-6-2009 at 14:29


Apparently there's been a lot of failure when it comes to XPN. I will give it a shot once my supplies arrive. Make sure it stays ultra-cool though.
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[*] posted on 22-10-2009 at 21:48


If MHN is indeed a viscous liquid, could you mix it readily with something like ETN for a pliable clay? The ETN should be easily soluble in MHN. Not to mention the properties of said solution. Could you safely mix together (by hand, like sugar and shortening) the two components without risking detonation?
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[*] posted on 23-10-2009 at 03:24


MHN, mannitol hexanitrate is a solid explosive m.p. >100*c!
Its stability is less than that of ETN and both are more easily detonated than PETN.
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[*] posted on 23-10-2009 at 03:41


Still i wouldnt really be scared of unplanned detonation.
Do watch out for the nitro headaches you could get by absorption through the skin, they could be very severe if one would kneed such a mass.
MHN is a fluffy crystal (without recrystalization).
SHN is somewhat liquid as well as the sucrose/fructose etc.
Liquid is not really the right word, its more like a sticky mess :)

[Edited on 23-10-2009 by User]




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[*] posted on 23-10-2009 at 04:40


Quote: Originally posted by User  
Still i wouldnt really be scared of unplanned detonation.

Wtf---if you're being serious, you're an idiot!
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[*] posted on 23-10-2009 at 12:37


Basically what I was trying to get at, is if I can use a binder that's also HE, then the detonation would be that much more powerful.

If ETN and MHN are crystalline, I wouldn't expect XPN (the 5-carbon analog) to be either. I may play around with energies in chem 3d to get a better idea.

[Edited on 10-23-2009 by LabRatNW]
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[*] posted on 23-10-2009 at 17:56


Yes well what i meant was that it isnt going to explode just by looking at it.
Although it is considered a sensitive substance one still needs a firm hammer blow to actually set it off.
I dont believe that by simply kneading it anything will happen.
From experience i can say that it just isnt That sensitive.
Still it is powerful and needs to be treated with respect.
Clear?

XPN is a sort of liquid sticky mass which evaporates quite quickly.


[Edited on 24-10-2009 by User]




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[*] posted on 24-10-2009 at 03:30


Thanks for clearing that up!
It did appear that you were more concerned by a nitrohead than the possible loss of digits, limbs or organs.
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Rich_Insane
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[*] posted on 26-10-2009 at 15:17


I know this has been mentioned here, but what are some good places to get xylitol, mannitol, or erythritol for very low prices (like $4/lb). I want to make a small batch of ETN first (I'm a newb to nitrate esters).

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[*] posted on 27-10-2009 at 06:17


Short reply---ebay

[Edited on 27-10-2009 by hissingnoise]
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[*] posted on 28-10-2009 at 08:49


Quote: Originally posted by Rich_Insane  
I want to make a small batch of ETN first (I'm a newb to nitrate esters).

Your first batch should really be very small, <1gm and noting its behaviour will give you some confidence but bear in mind that you're dealing with a solid form of nitro, more or less. . .
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[*] posted on 28-10-2009 at 15:59


I'm actually a fairly experienced chemist, I was planning on my 1st batch being about 5g. Energetic materials are a whole new game for me, so I gotta be super careful. Any recommendations for solvents?
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[*] posted on 29-10-2009 at 03:38


All these sugar nitrate esters are can be dissolved in (warm) acetone.
It is wise to neutralize while in solution to prevent acid remains to be get trapped withing the crystals.
By adding water and cooling one can recrystallize the product.
Look up the table for PETN solute ability acetone/water/temp in urbanski , I found that at least some of his brothers act in a similar way (sorbitol/mannitol/sucrose).




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[*] posted on 4-11-2009 at 13:49


*** Xylitol is a lot like mannitol in that one needs very high quality white - HNO3, 1.50 or better, then use the H2SO4 drop by drop technique that MHN methods employ - and you should have no problems.

Frankly, Erythritol is getting to be sold quite a bit now through a great deal of standard commercial outlets in the US & EU. Start reading brand labels and you'll see! I can think of one of the top of my head in the US called "TRUVIA" that's Erythritol and sold right near where the "Splenda" is sold.

Mannitol is tough to find on occasion & so is Sorbitol but eurythritol is a darn good sugar substitute & is being used more and more xyitol is pretty good but doesn't dissolve in tea or coffee as fast and for cooking in a batter is really tough to get an even sweetness.
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[*] posted on 4-11-2009 at 15:32


All three compounds can be be nitrated in good yield using a mixed acid as is used for glycerol; obviously dissolved NO2 poses some risk of runaway so low temps and slow addition of the finely-ground crystals is recommended. . .
Conc. HNO3 with a slight excess volume of 98% H2SO4, cooled to ~5*C bypasses the need for strong white HNO3.
In each case a large volume of ice-water should be used in drowning!
For efficient mixing of the thickening mixture, a teflon spatula of some sort is a good idea.

[Edited on 4-11-2009 by hissingnoise]
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