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Author: Subject: Det Cap Strategies
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[*] posted on 9-12-2022 at 09:18


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Casting is much more laborious and the output brisance is no better. When pressed into a solid cavity using a small vise, the density of ETN reaches 1.7g/cc or higher. It's the easiest and fastest. Usually 300 - 400 mg of ETN is pressed. This is followed by manual compression of 100 mg of ETN with hand pressure of approx. 2 - 5 Kg. This is followed by a primary mixture, usually 200 mg. NHN has proven to be an unreliable substance. The most reliable is 200 mg of SA-DS. In its own plastic case together with a resistance bridge. The use of plastic shrink tubing has been proven. SA-DS is poured loosely and secured with a piece of nitrocellulose cotton wool.

The side with the wires is completed with baking soda. And drips 4 drops of instant glue. This results in a very strong plug made of a relatively inert and cheap and available material. And it holds immediately.


I saw your video on double salts. I also read about them. They are interesting (especially your use of an olive jar exactly like the improvised munitions guide!) but in all honesty I really believe that the NHN should have worked. I will add more next time.

And while melt-casting isn't much better than hard pressed ETN, I don't have a press to press it with, so I cannot get the 1.7cm3 density by pressing by hand. Melt-casting in the detonator as I have been readvised again is much easier and I can do it. I will try that, add more ETN on top after it cools down and then 0.4 or 0.5g of NHN pressed in by hand as hard as I can. Melt-cast ETN is pretty much the easiest way to get the density to 1.7 or 1.8. ETN is brisant enough on its own, I don't need more! 1.3 or so grams of ETN in a detonator is powerful enough for almost anything.

I also did make some CHP BTW. But the copper oxide I ordered is probably BS which is why I have a LOT of containmation. I've also seen some that burned super fast while others didn't. I ordered more copper (II) oxide that I hope is more pure so I can use it, since I have lots of ammonium perchlorate left (around 100 grams, or a little less. Either way it is enough for a good amount of CHP to make) I just need to make or buy more ammonia to make it as well since my 28% supply is scant at the moment.
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[*] posted on 4-2-2023 at 03:47


I read about Bi2O3+Al (maybe with PETN) as potencial mixture for blasting cap.
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[*] posted on 4-2-2023 at 05:59


Quote: Originally posted by specialactivitieSK  
I read about Bi2O3+Al (maybe with PETN) as potencial mixture for blasting cap.


Dragon Egg composition as an initiator ? Why not...
I've always wondered what would happen if the beads in commercial compositions were bigger but never dared try :)




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[*] posted on 4-2-2023 at 19:11


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  

I've always wondered what would happen if the beads in commercial compositions were bigger but never dared try :)


Although the dragons egg granule comps behave quite snappy, they have a limitation in effective sizes- The amount of comp which has reached the temperature for effect to occur GOES. The interior of any oversized chunk of comp DOES NOT go. The under heated, unreacted ballance gets broken into crumbs and flung about- Some of it MAY smolder and go "bang" later- a great deal of it generally will not.




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[*] posted on 5-2-2023 at 16:16


What if I add neutron reflectors ? /joking
Thanks Bert for that very interesting information. I understand what you mean. I read a couple of threads on the mixture but may have missed some.
My friends are going to be so dissapointed. Some asked if I could do something "bigger" than store bought crackling fountains...

Anyway, sorry for the off topic.




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[*] posted on 6-2-2023 at 21:01


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  

I've always wondered what would happen if the beads in commercial compositions were bigger but never dared try :)


Although the dragons egg granule comps behave quite snappy, they have a limitation in effective sizes- The amount of comp which has reached the temperature for effect to occur GOES. The interior of any oversized chunk of comp DOES NOT go. The under heated, unreacted ballance gets broken into crumbs and flung about- Some of it MAY smolder and go "bang" later- a great deal of it generally will not.


But what about confined in a metal tube? I saw some mixture on Russian YouTube… that was similar and it DDT in the open.
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[*] posted on 7-2-2023 at 17:52


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  

But what about confined in a metal tube? I saw some mixture on Russian YouTube… that was similar and it DDT in the open.


Both of the common lead oxides (litharge, minium) when used as oxidizers in pyrotechnic compositions or unthinkingly mixed with fuels in the lab have surprised a few people with how violent they can be- I've no idea what you saw, could you find it and post WHAT the mixture was/what it did to make you think it was a primary?

[Edited on 2-8-2023 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 8-2-2023 at 04:57


Has anyone tried the initiation properties of Bi2O3 + Al...? In a solid cavity...?...Or do only I have to try ..?...A like usually first in whole world...?....:cool:



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[*] posted on 8-2-2023 at 18:17


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  

But what about confined in a metal tube? I saw some mixture on Russian YouTube… that was similar and it DDT in the open.


Both of the common lead oxides (litharge, minium) when used as oxidizers in pyrotechnic compositions or unthinkingly mixed with fuels in the lab have surprised a few people with how violent they can be- I've no idea what you saw, could you find it and post WHAT the mixture was/what it did to make you think it was a primary?

[Edited on 2-8-2023 by Bert]


I cannot. It was a bismuth based thermite. Nonetheless those tend to be sensitive. Obvious step would be mixing with ammonium perchlorate. Anyways, I have yet to find anything that is better than my nano mixtures except some stuff explosive laboratories did with partially nitrated organics mixed with Iodates. I was not able to duplicate. Ammonium perchlorate and aluminum is still in my mind the safest DDT mixtures. I have seen detonation with only micron aluminum in the correct ratios. But nano is really needed, although low order detonations of these mixtures will kick secondaries, period. Even flash will set off ANNMAL mixtures with full force.

People miss the forest for the trees in these DDT mixtures. Either use flash, or use a very engineered nano mixture.
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[*] posted on 8-2-2023 at 18:17


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Has anyone tried the initiation properties of Bi2O3 + Al...? In a solid cavity...?...Or do only I have to try ..?...A like usually first in whole world...?....:cool:


Mix it with ammonium perchlorate, we need some gas generation. Yes. You do :))
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[*] posted on 8-2-2023 at 18:38


Anecdotally, have NOT tried this- I prefer not to use lead in fireworks mixtures:

Red thermite (lead tetroxide/elemental silicon) is pretty shock sensitive, made with fine enough mesh ingredients, explodes rather than burns.

Might this be what the Russian YouTube guys were playing with?

I think there is some Bismuth oxide around here, was looking at the non lead dragon eggs mixture years ago but then got too busy, then I got licensed and REALLY got too busy, stored it away and never made any crackle with it.

I recall the bismuth oxide dragons egg mixture calling for a few % of black copper oxide as well. I think I found that one published in a PGI Bulletin, perhaps 20 years back. Where DOES the time go?

[Edited on 2-9-2023 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 8-2-2023 at 21:44


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Anecdotally, have NOT tried this- I prefer not to use lead in fireworks mixtures:

Red thermite (lead tetroxide/elemental silicon) is pretty shock sensitive, made with fine enough mesh ingredients, explodes rather than burns.

Might this be what the Russian YouTube guys were playing with?

I think there is some Bismuth oxide around here, was looking at the non lead dragon eggs mixture years ago but then got too busy, then I got licensed and REALLY got too busy, stored it away and never made any crackle with it.

I recall the bismuth oxide dragons egg mixture calling for a few % of black copper oxide as well. I think I found that one published in a PGI Bulletin, perhaps 20 years back. Where DOES the time go?

[Edited on 2-9-2023 by Bert]


May have been copper oxide, bismuth oxide and magnesium. I can’t remember. All these thermites are too sensitive. Nano thermites were the rage… till we realized they are more sensitive than primaries. It’s hard to beat wax coated aminoguanidine nickel perchlorate. There are exotic insensitive primaries that are immune to friction and impact (more so then PETN ). But they are exotic. Anyways. The issue with primaries is one batch may go off with a tap another won’t start all. Nano engineered ammonium perchlorate mixtures are, something else. It’s an engineering marvel. Burns like a sparkler, cannot catch in the open but ddt confined :) what other primary self extinguishes in the open???
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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 09:23


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  


I recall the bismuth oxide dragons egg mixture calling for a few % of black copper oxide as well. I think I found that one published in a PGI Bulletin, perhaps 20 years back. Where DOES the time go?

[Edited on 2-9-2023 by Bert]


Doesnt seem to be any copper in those.
I crushed a couple of them, added a few others full in a bit of water then added a few drops of H2SO4.
Initially there were a lot of bubbles, a cloudy suspension I attributed to Al or Bi2O3 reacting with the acid but no blue.


IMG_3722.jpg - 106kB




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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 11:16


If you don't have metal or aluminum tubing to make det-caps I have a solution and it's much cheaper. :)

get some 1/4 inch vinyl tubing, the stuff that I got was called rain-drop tubing or something like that.
next, you're going to cut off around 3-4 inches of the tube.
clamp one of the ends in a wrench and melt it with a lighter or something. While hot, press the end on some glass or a metal pan to seal the end well.
now if you did everything correctly you should have a cheap yet well-functioning det-cap.
I like to fill the end with around 1cm of well-packed ETN and the rest with TATP or HMTD.
having the 1/4 inch tubing allows for little room between the edge of the tube and the fuse I was using.
I use the visco fuse from cannon-fuse.
if you're going to be using store-bought electric fuses then they should fit perfectly with little to no room.
however if your going to be using DIY eclectic fuses your going to have to make them quite small to be able to fit in the tubing.
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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 12:21


I believe this is the mixture I'm recalling.

Screenshot_20230209-141709_Samsung Internet.jpg - 67kB




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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 15:13


Quote: Originally posted by Raid  
If you don't have metal or aluminum tubing to make det-caps I have a solution and it's much cheaper. :)

get some 1/4 inch vinyl tubing, the stuff that I got was called rain-drop tubing or something like that.
next, you're going to cut off around 3-4 inches of the tube.
clamp one of the ends in a wrench and melt it with a lighter or something. While hot, press the end on some glass or a metal pan to seal the end well.
now if you did everything correctly you should have a cheap yet well-functioning det-cap.
I like to fill the end with around 1cm of well-packed ETN and the rest with TATP or HMTD.
having the 1/4 inch tubing allows for little room between the edge of the tube and the fuse I was using.
I use the visco fuse from cannon-fuse.
if you're going to be using store-bought electric fuses then they should fit perfectly with little to no room.
however if your going to be using DIY eclectic fuses your going to have to make them quite small to be able to fit in the tubing.


Yup, your ban is over and name isn't "PINKBOII" any more.

I strongly suggest you do not play with explosives, above and beyond that, I suggest you (and everyone else) never play with explosive organic peroxides.

Why not?

https://youtu.be/0Et-fyyBqyE

That kind of thing seems to happen to people who make organic peroxides. A lot.

[Edited on 2-9-2023 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 15:36


I don't "play" with them. I only use it because its cost effective.
I've also seen that video before, I feel bad for the guy.

[Edited on 9-2-2023 by Raid]
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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 18:47


Quote: Originally posted by Raid  
I only use [organic peroxides] because its cost effective.


:o :o :o

"penny wise and pound foolish" seems an understatement here.




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[*] posted on 9-2-2023 at 23:34


I agree. If you are serious about experimenting with energetics, you should transition to more predictable primaries as soon as possible. I'm sure many of us have started out with peroxides, but those of us that are still around quit them long ago.
The economic aspect is only relevant if you use them for other things than just primaries and if that is the case, you are almost certainly going to kill yourself with it.
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[*] posted on 10-2-2023 at 06:08


I use NHN now, much better and safer.
although when I make organic peroxides they seem to be much less friction and shock sensitive than what people on YouTube make.

[Edited on 10-2-2023 by Raid]
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[*] posted on 10-2-2023 at 14:22


Yes, peroxides are not necessarily extremely sensitive, the problem is the unpredictability. TATP, for instance, can sublimate and grow more sensitive, large crystals in whatever container you store it in. In the threads of a screw-on cap maybe...

It is good to hear that you have switched to NHN, that is an excellent choice.
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[*] posted on 11-2-2023 at 12:24


yeah, I've heard about TATP detonating due to the sublimation of it on a screw-cap. Luckily I have never had the problem, probably because I don't use screw caps, I only use plastic bags.
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[*] posted on 12-2-2023 at 06:34
Raid, what is the outdoors temperature where you are at right now?




Quote: Originally posted by Raid  
Luckily I have never had the problem, probably because I don't use screw caps, I only use plastic bags.


Non static plastic bags, of course. In a sufficiently humid environment, with ESD protection bleeds through a hefty resistor to ensure any generated potentials dissipate slowly.

You DO know about primary explosives sensitivity to explosions from electrostatic discharge (ESD), of course. And can post here a table (or SEVERAL tables) showing the joules/uf@kV of ESD capable of causing common primary explosives to explode. In some cases, the energy required to cause an explosion wouldn't even be noticed by you if you if a spark with that energy discharged from your fingertip to a grounded surface.

That information is on this site and in many other places. I'm sure you will research it and post it to this thread by tomorrow.




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[*] posted on 12-2-2023 at 07:08


Quote:
Every year, several thousand researchers grow up in the world. Of these, several hundred will visit sciencemadness. Of these, most follow the advice and experience of the wise. And of these, several individuals do not follow anything at all. And they show off in front of others as brave young male monkeys.
Conclusion: I am convinced that we are descended from apes.


No arguement here-

https://youtu.be/aRHqs8SffDo

[Edited on 2-12-2023 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 12-2-2023 at 09:25


Quote:
Yeah, I know about ESD. and to counter that I store in a ESD proof bag I got when I built my PC. :)
and the temp where I live is around 0-30 ish


°F or °C? Always specify units... Around here, SI units would be best.
----------

Great! I am pleased that you know all the answers, it must be an impressively large anti static bag for you to climb inside and fabricate/test your detonators.

Tommorow I will look for your post on relative ESD sensitivities of a range of primary and secondary explosives. Including some typical values for charges developed by a human body under various conditions of temperature and humidity while conducting various activities...

[Edited on 2-12-2023 by Bert]




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