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Author: Subject: Ammonia from cyanuric acid??
tahallium
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 12:37
Ammonia from cyanuric acid??


Hey
I've found 1kg sodium dichloroisocyanurate and 1kg trichloroisocyanuric acid for less than 20 TND (6 USD) very cheap right?
I don't need to make chlorine, electrolysis is so much easier for me buT I NEED AMMONIA
And I really don't want to boil urine and sodium hydroxide AGAIN!
Can I make ammonia or ammonium salt using pool chemicals instead??

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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 12:42


Can't get ammonium sulfate from a hardware or garden supply shop?
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tahallium
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 13:18


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Can't get ammonium sulfate from a hardware or garden supply shop?

I need a license..
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 13:44


Cyanuric acid sounds problematic to me.
Might be some way to reduce it to ammonia but I bet you'd get nitrogen instead. (a guess).

Can you buy fertilizers? They don't use nitrates as much as they used to and you might find some fertilizer for garden use with a fair amount of ammonium salts in it. Check the labels.

Basifying and heating would release the ammonia.

Some soldering flux is made from ammonium chloride. Check hardware stores and places that sell supplies for welding and metalwork.
Ammonia would also be released from these materials by basifying and heating.




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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 13:57


Ammonium sulfate is a dirt cheap fertiliser and very widely available. Where did you get the notion that you need a license.
Ammonia can also be made using urea. Again, very cheap and accessible.
I suppose isocyanuric acid might be another starting material. (Pool stabiliser). I don't know why you would choose the chlorinated acid or salt.

Ammonia is a bit nasty to work with. And famous for suck back if you are dissolving in water. Attempt small scale first. Make sure you have good ventilation and an evacuation route. If you grab a lungful it will feel like you are gargling steak knives and you will be coughing for quite a while.
I would be more cautious with making concentrated ammonia than handling lead metal with trace amounts of contaminants (your previous concern). This is even more true if you are lacking good glassware.
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tahallium
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 14:10


Thanks everyone
I didn't find isocyanuric acid just trichloroisocyanuric acid and sodium dichloroisocyanurate
Well I asked for ammonium sulfate but here in Tunisia nobody cares about chemicals they call ammonium nitrate ammonitre -_-
And the seller said that I need a license to buy it
Btw I stopped working with lead it's extremely toxic and I don't want to stay nervous all the time
But I think ammonia is so much safer cuz I work outside all the time :) the weather is good right here
I think ammonia is corrosive but not toxic like hydrogen cyanide
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 14:20


Ammonium nitrate is regulated in a lot of places because it's an explosive, however ammonium sulfate is not an explosive so it is much less regulated. However, on Wikipedia it does say it is banned in Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan, so maybe there are some other countries that have regulated it. You can get ammonia from urea and sodium hydroxide, which forms ammonia and sodium carbonate.

This video mostly focuses on getting ammonia from ammonium sulfate, but mentions urea a bit and the procedure is fairly similar for both: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh4gGkk74iU

You might be able to get ammonia from TCCA but urea is likely to be much easier to get, cheaper, and easier to work with, so it is much more practical than using TCCA.
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 15:24


Isocyanuric acid is likely to be on the next shelf.
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RedDwarf
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 15:37


What about Adblue - the Urea solution used to reduce diesel engine emissions - can you get that?
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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 16:06


Quote:
And I really don't want to boil urine and sodium hydroxide AGAIN!


The worst thing about this reaction is that it smells like... ammonia. Every preparation of ammonia has this flaw.

Anyway you first need to reduce the TCCA/DCCA to isocyanuric acid and then probably use an acidic hydrolysis because I don't see OH- adding to the (-3) cyanurate ion. This sounds very inconvenient.

Although it does inspire the idea of preparing simple primary amines from trialkylated cyanuric acid... here alkali hydrolysis would be suitable.

Quote:
What about Adblue - the Urea solution used to reduce diesel engine emissions - can you get that?


Agreed, I think some form of urea (or possibly oxamide) should be available almost anywhere, so look for that.

[Edited on 7-3-2020 by clearly_not_atara]




Quote: Originally posted by bnull  
you can always buy new equipment but can't buy new fingers.
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[*] posted on 6-3-2020 at 16:44


0.18 mol/liter NaOH at 170C for 50 min was giving good results according to this guy.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311694993_Reaction_...




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tahallium
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[*] posted on 8-3-2020 at 09:16


I just noticed that cyanates can be easily made from cyanuric acid and can be hydrolyzed (somehow) to ammonium carbonate! I really need ammonium salt that'll make everything Soooo much easier for me. I need AMMONIA GAS

[Edited on 8-3-2020 by tahallium]
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[*] posted on 8-3-2020 at 13:28


Quote: Originally posted by tahallium  
I just noticed that cyanates can be easily made from cyanuric acid and can be hydrolyzed (somehow) to ammonium carbonate! I really need ammonium salt that'll make everything Soooo much easier for me. I need AMMONIA GAS

[Edited on 8-3-2020 by tahallium]

Beautiful video on Doug's lab on ammonia. Look it up. Follow his practice.
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