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Author: Subject: European Sulfuric Acid Ban
outer_limits
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[*] posted on 17-7-2020 at 01:22


But still, well organized groups won't have any problems with manufacturing explosives.

Affected people will be those who want to refill the battery. Instead of doing it themselves they will have to pay much more to a mechanic for doing that.

And, no - government don't want your safety. They want to have control. Each year more and more. That's the only goal
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BJ68
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[*] posted on 17-7-2020 at 01:42


Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits  
But still, well organized groups won't have any problems with manufacturing explosives.


They do not need to manufacture or do you think the nice stuff (arms, munition, explosives) what was and is sold to "Moderate Rebells" will stay at the place where it was sold?

Or think what is lying around in the basement or attic at former Yugoslavia or is used actually in some part of the Ukraine ?
Even here in Germany you can find something in the forest for World War II what is useful....

Sometimes people get caught:

a) https://www.radioleipzig.de/beitrag/%2B%2B-update%2B%2B-am-h...

b) First paragraph https://www.pnp.de/nachrichten/bayern/Fahnder-Bilanz-Kalasch...
this incident was short before Bataclan....

bj68

[Edited on 17-7-2020 by BJ68]
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Refinery
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[*] posted on 17-7-2020 at 06:49


Quote: Originally posted by BJ68  
VAT-Number is not enough...

bj68


Afaik the VAT number is practically always handed over upon official company filing confirmation. The number translates to company registration number in some countries. I've never seen this thing put in this way. Second, there are different forms of companies, from personal business entities to shared joint stock companies, etc, depending on country.

Not sure about Germany, but it sounds really bureaucratic country. The easiest types of companies require just filling form where you put your name and sign it, and the company is valid and operational within 24-48 hours.
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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 17-7-2020 at 10:46


Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits  
government don't want your safety.

True enough. It's the people that want to be safe. The politicians are like car salesmen, they will say anything to sell you whatever they have on the lot. And what they get in return is control. But that doesn't mean they're lying.

Quote:
well organized groups won't have any problems with manufacturing explosives

Sure they will. It might not be impossible, but well designed regulations can increase cost and complexity considerably. This reduces the number of successful attempts.




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[*] posted on 27-8-2020 at 09:38


Hm... So this means that filling your car or motorcycle battery will require a chemicals license of some sort? Battery acid that is sold in car parts shops seems to be 20 to 50 %.

Also, no more sulphuric acid drain cleaners to the general public... I remember that 70% stuff was sold in a local, ordinary hardware store, although not on the consumer grade chemicals shelf. :P And I think I've seen 96% acid being sold in specialized plumbing shops. Not sure if it was sold to anyone or only professionals.
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[*] posted on 27-8-2020 at 14:32


Where in europe are they even selling concentrated H2SO4 as drain cleaner?
Certainly I've never seen that in my own country, only the lye based ones.

Also, is this stuff even really effective for that purpose? I would imagine that normal people adding conc. sulfuric acid into their toilet water would probably cause more injuries from splatters than it would result in unclogged drains, no?
NaOH for that purpose is without a doubt much more effective for that, I mean only if it isn't added directly as solid as many "normies" are doing and thus causing another clogged section of the drain :o

On the topic, I just bought two liters of cheap battery acid from a discount store, just in case.
I plan to purchase a 5l canister of conc. H2SO4 this year before its too late, that will likely last a life time, while also being so much cheaper in bulk.
Think I paid more for much smaller amounts than the price of such a canister(from the latvian shop by the way, good price and also, Linards is cool).
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outer_limits
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[*] posted on 27-8-2020 at 14:54


I know at least one drain cleaner which is 96% H2SO4 according to product SDS which is available in Poland.

I have almost 4l of supply but maybe I will buy a bit more until it's easy to buy and dirty cheap.
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[*] posted on 27-8-2020 at 18:22


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Where in europe are they even selling concentrated H2SO4 as drain cleaner?


Where I live there is one product which is on the hardware store shelf and it is water white 95% H2SO4.... Hard enough to find, not in every shop, but it is available.

There is also an online electronics supply store in the city where reagent grade 96% and 98% is available to anybody but I fear all these sources will dry up when this directive takes effect.



/CJ




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[*] posted on 28-8-2020 at 06:36


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Where in europe are they even selling concentrated H2SO4 as drain cleaner?
Certainly I've never seen that in my own country, only the lye based ones.



Where I live it is rare too but I came acros it on quite a few occasions, smaller hardware shops often, not the big chains.
I also found it in a few farmer supply stores.

Also there are quite a few pool stores that have 37% sulfuric acid, if you dont mind buying 25L :)
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[*] posted on 28-8-2020 at 07:13


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

Also, is this stuff even really effective for that purpose?


Hell yes! Besides the standard things like hair (which NaOH does a good job on) it also dissolves complete roles of toilet paper! In my time as a student on multiple occasions I found a toilet clogged with a roll of toilet paper. Concentrated sulfuric eats through it like it is nothing.
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[*] posted on 28-8-2020 at 12:09


I have seen it sold at wholesale shops here in Norway that supply plumbers and similar. But those shops don't sell to the public. I have found a few retailers that list it in their webshops, but none anywhere close so I haven't had time to visit any of them yet. And there are online plumbing shops that offer it with no apparent limitations, but I prefer cash payment when shopping potentially monitored substances.



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[*] posted on 22-9-2020 at 08:45


In Italy there's a brand of almost colourless 98% sulfuric acid drain cleaner (3€/L), and many others that are dyed blue, but are sold in hardware stores only. Others are NaOH solutions, and solid NaOH (4€/kg) is being sold less and less nowadays. I'll definitely get a couple extra bottles now that I know it. Thanks for the info!




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[*] posted on 24-9-2020 at 06:43


The few days I wish I lived in italy. Perhaps someone could ship a pallet for me, because I just ordered a full canister of sulfuric acid for 8€/L.
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[*] posted on 27-10-2020 at 05:28


I did read through the new directive and the terms used make it appear quite scary. The restrictions for sulfuric acid are draconic; it is treated like it was an actual explosive material and it must be licensed and even in businesses it must be registered and a log kept to who it has been sold to. I'm not sure how seriously they consider it in reality, looking at the fact that it has been around for decades free for sale.

Thank god there is the 1 year interim period when possession is still fully legal. That's before 1st of Feb 2022.
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[*] posted on 27-10-2020 at 11:04


I havent read through it that time. Did that the last ban...

Is there anything in the text about businesses having to keep track of their stock and usage ?
Good luck to the metal industry if there is.




The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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[*] posted on 28-10-2020 at 07:44


Yes, the list 1 stuff (sulfuric and nitric acid and H2O2) must be recorded and tracked and kept for 18 months, unauthorized personnel or third parties must be prevented from getting to areas where they are used, blah blah. I don't know if this register is kept only in case, or is it surveyed regularly by some state security. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd ransack some small businesses for purcashing the stuff because it's dictated as the evil's liquor, when in reality they dip their rusty wrenches in it. Oh, and how about anodizing? EU is turning things into corporatism in good pace by banning or bureaucratizing everything to the extent it becomes impossible for a small company to follow them.

I still find it obscure that such commodity chemical like sulfuric acid is to be banned. Even our police stated in some of their articles that the ban is pretty ineffective for preventing homemade bombs, because there are various alternatives on the market. Then there is that it still can be bought up to 15% so it only merely slows down the bad guys, but annoys the hell out of good guys.

[Edited on 28-10-2020 by Fyndium]
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