Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: A word to amateur chemists
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 12-8-2020 at 23:43
A word to amateur chemists


I've been doing amateur chemistry for ages. I recently got into organic chemistry. I stored my chemicals well, not perfect, but well. I planned out every single experiment for days and always worked outside. I wore all of the appropriate PPE and did everything right.

Why am I writing? Well, I absolutely hate to say it and I know I will be yelled at for this but it needs to be put out there as a solid warning. Learn from me and not your own mistakes. I love chemistry, it's my passion. That's why it's so damn hard to quit for me. But I think I've hit that point now. Maybe I just have to spend ages trying to find 100% safe chemistry and live with the boring reactions and no multi-step synthesis.

I used to be into explosive chemistry but I had done everything I could think of with it. I was semi safe and no one ever got hurt. I was always stressed about having explosives pop up at the airport and me not being able to fly to visit my family or getting in huge trouble. So I finally gave up on that. I moved on to organic chemistry instead for which I have a huge love for. I decided on making benzocaine from toluene that I got from a carb cleaner bottle.

The most toxic substance I'd have to work with was mononitrotoluene. Toxic and carcinogenic. I did everything right to keep me safe, worked outside full PPE, etc. I made a single mistake that I thought was negligible after having made and handled this stuff for a few days. I turned off the fan that was supposed to right away disperse vapors.I was outside, it was safe, right?

Well, one of my family members was on the balcony (about 30 feet away which I thought was adequate) and was exposed to it. They smelled something weird and reported a sweet taste in their mouth and slight burning sensation. I was exposed to negligible levels as well but never had a sweet taste in my mouth from it or a burning feeling meaning they were exposed to a decent amount. So, this was the second time in years that I exposed someone I loved to chemicals. I am done. I quit and if you don't have proper ventilation you should too. Or work with really safe stuff which is often boring and very very limiting. Since the isomer separation went terribly and I recovered less than 500mg of the target isomer (out of an expected 15-20 grams), it was all for nothing anyway. I lacked some equipment which was my downfall in the end.

I thought about just buying the p-nitrobenzoic acid so I don't have to work with nasty chemical again but realized that the reduction I wanted to do used HCl. Even if done outside and if I neutralized vapors through a trap, I could still have something go wrong like something as stupid as turning off the fan despite being outside.

I spent days planning for explosions, runaways, ventilation, PPE, storage, making sure I have the chemicals and equipment (I thought I could get away with gravity filtration like others but since I didn't have a lab freezer and there was no way in hell I'd put it in the food freezer I didn't have a choice. I had a vacuum filtration set up but I didn't want to destroy my pump since the nitrotoluene was semi corrosive to plastics and maybe metals), etc. yet despite days of planning and thinking that all was well, it still went wrong. Last time I exposed someone to something a bit worse was when I left the distillation on its own and just watched through a window. The greasing fluid (fluid was required for this) evaporated and leaked the vapors. I was inside and didn't know. I hate myself for that until this day even though besides some coughing they were just fine. It's still not right and could've ended wayyyy worse.

I changed everything on how I do things and thought I was super safe. I was far from it. Home chemistry just can't be done safely unless you have a proper fumehood and are a lot further away from people.

As much as I love this hobby (this seriously feels like my purpose in life) I have to give it up. I was always able to keep myself safe but not others around me. It just can't be done unless you use non volatile and safe chemicals. Stick to crystal growing I guess.

I'd also like to add that I am absolutely ashamed of what happened and it punches a hole in my heart everytime I think of it. While the person was just fine and the exposure was honestly nothing to really worry about (had they been outside longer, it'd probably be different), I still exposed them to nasty chemicals. Not to mention the neighbors too! I put their life at risk. This can happen with seemingly normal chemicals like acids as well. Solvents, gases, acids, some bases, etc. it's just too uncontrollable and basically all of the chemistry I like doing can't be done without them.

So I feel like I may be torn apart for this but instead of just hiding this like most do, I feel like people just need to know and learn from my foolishness. If I can prevent someone else from having this happen, that makes it all worth the bashing and such.

I feel like there is some safer chemistry I may do just to not have to give up on chemistry but after seeing how even the most common chemicals can also cause similar if not worse effects, I may just give up. I'd like to make biodiesel with methanol being the worst thing but I'm still hesitant. Benzocaine from PABA is a maybe. but too simple for my taste. I really wanted to be able to just do a multi step synthesis for once but look at what happened. Just doing the esterification seems too boring and simple. But the simple and almost 100% safe chemistry is what it seems must be limited to at home. I had reactions that challenged me and used the awesome advanced equipment I had acquired over the years but most of those reactions just can't be done anymore.

I'd love to make chloroform and distill it but what about the vapors? Toxic and carcinogenic. Not something that should be released at all. See, lots of projects (chlorobutanol, thymolphthalein, just using it as a solvent in general) are all out of the window already. No volatile acids, nitric acid , HCl, gone. Super useful but vapors can't be controlled properly even outside as indicated by previous accidents and this one. It really limits what you can do.

So yes, I know what I did was horrible and I hate myself for it. I really do. Amateur chemistry keeps me going and it is truly a passion. I feel like the "love" blinded me from the danger. So while I hope you guys won't be too harsh on me, I just hope this makes other amateurs rethink the projects they have planned.

Thanks.



I should also mention my waste disposal was all planned out from head to toe too but theoretical is always far from practical. The washing water was only supposed to have 0.04% of MNT. As you can imagine, it was far from that percent. There was even the oily liquid on the bottom of the jug. My entire waste management plans were completely thrown out as EVERYTHING went completely the opposite of what was supposed to happen. I had no other choice at this point but resort to non ethical ways. I hate myself for that even more. Waste disposal is really something that is shockingly lacking in the amateur chemistry community and it's something that needs to be talked about as well.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
karlos³
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 926
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline

Mood: verrückt & wissenschaftlich

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 00:22


Uhm... I am not yelling at you.
But... I get the impression you aren't used at all to organic chemistry.
It almost sounds like a chemophobic reaction from an outsider, to be honest.

I do almost only organic chemistry(and to add that, specialised on drug synthesis), so I am pretty well versed on organic reactions and their usual smells, vapors, etc, whatever.
Organic chemistry simply is smelly and all.
Carcinogens are ubiquitous too... I have to say, every day in the home lab, I work with at least a single one of them.
Occasionally I might get some on my skin too, but so what?
Thats organic chemistry.
Don't be so overly scared.
Hundred-150 years ago, it was usus to taste things that were made.
Those guys didn't died gruesome deads either.

I think it is important to find a middle between responsible caution and overly exaggerated fear... without drifting into being careless.
After a good portion of time and experience this will set in by itself.
Try to live until then, without dying from a psychological shock! :o
You seem to be at great risk of this, reading your report.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Tsjerk
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2249
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mood

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 00:34


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Yes, I refuse to bring anything into my home lab that has a health rating of 4 on the NFPA diamond. Nitric acid is the only exception only because I know it inside and out and have lots of experience with it and it's decomposition products. It would've been 1/4 pound of dichromates. I don't have proper disposal for chromium products. The reaction should work with KMnO4 anyway, but yea I refuse to do high risk experiments in my home lab.


That is perfectly fine, but you don't have to tell everyone every time you see someone talking about something toxic. Unless someone wants to make dimethyl mercury or clearly doesn't know what they are dealing with, it is fine to assume they will not eat or inhale the stuff.


I didn't mention it everytime. I mention it here because um, I'm not sure if you read his post, but he is making a potentially explosive mix. So, while you won't see it under my fdnjj6 profile, I used to be heavily into energetics and I can tell you that when things go boom unconfined, it tends to send shit everywhere, making it very easy to inhale and expose yourself to it and expose the entire area around you to it. While I know this place isn't super good on safety, this was something that definitely needed a good word of caution. And to be blatant, there are a LOT of people, especially kids, on here who do not know what they are doing. So it's fair to assume so.

He also commented on me saying that I just refused to order the dichromate so I figured I'd elaborate.

I help people out all the time with toxic stuff. Mainly on Reddit, however I felt like dropping the MSDS and a good warning was very appropriate. Not sure why you felt the need to say what you said, it was unnecessary.

[Edited on 5-8-2020 by fdnjj6]


Well.... now at least you did mention it everywhere.

Organic chemistry smells and is dirty, if you can't live with that then it is indeed better to stop.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
JJay
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3412
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 00:40


I was reading this expecting to see some revelation about how you were dying of leukemia or accidentally lost your arm in a freak accident. The part where you lost me is where you referred to your family member as "they" as if you were discussing some generic relative rather than a specific person who got exposed. I think you put a lot of work into this narrative, but I don't believe a word of it, and while you're probably well-meaning, I'd suggest you do your do-gooding somewhere else on a topic you better understand.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
karlos³
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 926
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline

Mood: verrückt & wissenschaftlich

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 00:52


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  

Organic chemistry smells and is dirty, if you can't live with that then it is indeed better to stop.

Is it a fetish when I admit that this is one of the things I like more than I should on it?
I know I am not the only one of us organic chemist who takes a whiff of almost everything, right? :D

The part of it being dirty makes it feel even more like the hard work it sometimes is :)
Isolating something pure from a really dirty mixture... work for the mind and the hands, very challenging and exciting, no?
I love it!

The OP sounds like a scaredy girl coming straight from /r/chemistry in my impression :D
"uh I smelled a chemical, I am going to die, I will never do chemistry at home again because I am so scared".
We are MAD scientists here, not lame "scientists" :cool:

Being scared of chloroform vapors?
So what? I had to try a huff until I feel its effects the first time I made it twenty years ago.
Maybe you should check if you really have a peenor, sorry to say it like this, but this is what I think.
Car exhaust is cancerogenic, cigarette smoke too, hell even the dust from a laser printer.
Maybe you should get such a personal protection bubble out of plastic because you seem to have an irrational fear of everyday stuff?

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by karlos³]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Tsjerk
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2249
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mood

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 01:35


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  

Well, one of my family members was on the balcony (about 30 feet away which I thought was adequate) and was exposed to it. They smelled something weird and reported a sweet taste in their mouth and slight burning sensation. I was exposed to negligible levels as well but never had a sweet taste in my mouth from it or a burning feeling meaning they were exposed to a decent amount.


I have been exposed to not negligible amounts but never noticed a sweet taste nor a burning sensation. I have been pouring, filtering, handling etc. this stuff in a closed room with minimal ventilation. And they had these effects outside over a distance of 30 feet? Strange...

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by Tsjerk]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:04


Fuck it. Nevermind then. I am trying to help people. I'm not chemophobic but I don't like exposing people to carcinogens. Fuck Tserjerk btw. I'm trying to help bring some safety into amateur chemistry but I fucking guess not. Also I didn't fucking mention it everywhere how I run my lab so well or something. I'm giving a report on when shit went downhill. Just fucking forget it. I'm deleting this shit if I can. Assholes can't appreciate concern for other people's health. Outside does not mean fume hood.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:07


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  

Well, one of my family members was on the balcony (about 30 feet away which I thought was adequate) and was exposed to it. They smelled something weird and reported a sweet taste in their mouth and slight burning sensation. I was exposed to negligible levels as well but never had a sweet taste in my mouth from it or a burning feeling meaning they were exposed to a decent amount.


I have been exposed to not negligible amounts but never noticed a sweet taste nor a burning sensation. I have been pouring, filtering, handling etc. this stuff in a closed room with minimal ventilation. And they had these effects outside over a distance of 30 feet? Strange...

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by Tsjerk]


Not sure if they are more sensitive to chemicals but it makes sense. Also good fucking protocols you asshat. I don't know why you and I have such a problem. I know damn well that you're more of a kid anyway given the posts I've seen about your parents not letting you get chemicals and shit.

Go ahead and keep breathing in carcinogens.

Fuck man you'd think trying to help out people would be useful. I posted this on Reddit as well and actual pros gave sound advice and some kick in the balls about reality.

I love sciencemadness and all but most of the twats on here don't have regard for much safety of themselves or others.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:11


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I was reading this expecting to see some revelation about how you were dying of leukemia or accidentally lost your arm in a freak accident. The part where you lost me is where you referred to your family member as "they" as if you were discussing some generic relative rather than a specific person who got exposed. I think you put a lot of work into this narrative, but I don't believe a word of it, and while you're probably well-meaning, I'd suggest you do your do-gooding somewhere else on a topic you better understand.


Well, considering that I was crying as my mom was coughing her lung out from being exposed to nitric acid vapors I think that I am not some fucking narrative making bastard. This was a while back and still haunts me. I can't believe how crazy people on here are. You are endangering others. I get doing mild shit but come on man. Exposing people to carcinogens and toxic nitro aromatics is just too much.

BTW I was crying since there is no cure for NO2 poisoning and I was reading the delayed pulmonary edema effects. I was fucking lucky she didn't die from that. So fuck everyone on here for caring about others.

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by fdnjj6]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:15


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Uhm... I am not yelling at you.
But... I get the impression you aren't used at all to organic chemistry.
It almost sounds like a chemophobic reaction from an outsider, to be honest.

I do almost only organic chemistry(and to add that, specialised on drug synthesis), so I am pretty well versed on organic reactions and their usual smells, vapors, etc, whatever.
Organic chemistry simply is smelly and all.
Carcinogens are ubiquitous too... I have to say, every day in the home lab, I work with at least a single one of them.
Occasionally I might get some on my skin too, but so what?
Thats organic chemistry.
Don't be so overly scared.
Hundred-150 years ago, it was usus to taste things that were made.
Those guys didn't died gruesome deads either.

I think it is important to find a middle between responsible caution and overly exaggerated fear... without drifting into being careless.
After a good portion of time and experience this will set in by itself.
Try to live until then, without dying from a psychological shock! :o
You seem to be at great risk of this, reading your report.


Idk man I was safe from my experiments. I had my mom cough up a lung after being exposed to my leaky nitric acid distillation. I lied and said I know she'll be fine. I honestly thought I just killed my mom. That's nothing to take lightly. NO2 poisoning is serious and nitric acid has been said by careless members on here to be bad. I was always safe. I am talking about others around you who aren't wearing that respirator, who have ashtma, who don't know that the sweet smell coming from their neighbor is a carcinogen.

That's my point.

EDIT:
Just to give some narrative: my mom was having a hard time breathing and was coughing really fucking hard. Not just a Covid cough, no a full on deep, painful cough. I was lucky.

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by fdnjj6]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:17


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  

Organic chemistry smells and is dirty, if you can't live with that then it is indeed better to stop.

Is it a fetish when I admit that this is one of the things I like more than I should on it?
I know I am not the only one of us organic chemist who takes a whiff of almost everything, right? :D

The part of it being dirty makes it feel even more like the hard work it sometimes is :)
Isolating something pure from a really dirty mixture... work for the mind and the hands, very challenging and exciting, no?
I love it!

The OP sounds like a scaredy girl coming straight from /r/chemistry in my impression :D
"uh I smelled a chemical, I am going to die, I will never do chemistry at home again because I am so scared".
We are MAD scientists here, not lame "scientists" :cool:

Being scared of chloroform vapors?
So what? I had to try a huff until I feel its effects the first time I made it twenty years ago.
Maybe you should check if you really have a peenor, sorry to say it like this, but this is what I think.
Car exhaust is cancerogenic, cigarette smoke too, hell even the dust from a laser printer.
Maybe you should get such a personal protection bubble out of plastic because you seem to have an irrational fear of everyday stuff?

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by karlos³]


Go sort some more potent carcinogens then. Give the ol dichromate a nice line.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
outer_limits
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 102
Registered: 3-3-2020
Member Is Offline

Mood: hybridized

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:19


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

I know I am not the only one of us organic chemist who takes a whiff of almost everything, right? :D


And sometimes it is not the greatest idea... :D
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:20


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  

Organic chemistry smells and is dirty, if you can't live with that then it is indeed better to stop.

Is it a fetish when I admit that this is one of the things I like more than I should on it?
I know I am not the only one of us organic chemist who takes a whiff of almost everything, right? :D

The part of it being dirty makes it feel even more like the hard work it sometimes is :)
Isolating something pure from a really dirty mixture... work for the mind and the hands, very challenging and exciting, no?
I love it!

The OP sounds like a scaredy girl coming straight from /r/chemistry in my impression :D
"uh I smelled a chemical, I am going to die, I will never do chemistry at home again because I am so scared".
We are MAD scientists here, not lame "scientists" :cool:

Being scared of chloroform vapors?
So what? I had to try a huff until I feel its effects the first time I made it twenty years ago.
Maybe you should check if you really have a peenor, sorry to say it like this, but this is what I think.
Car exhaust is cancerogenic, cigarette smoke too, hell even the dust from a laser printer.
Maybe you should get such a personal protection bubble out of plastic because you seem to have an irrational fear of everyday stuff?

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by karlos³]


I was also talking about exposing innocent people to that. I don't care what happens to me. I deal with the consequences but if I expose innocent people to those chemicals, it's different.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:22


Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

I know I am not the only one of us organic chemist who takes a whiff of almost everything, right? :D


And sometimes it is not the greatest idea... :D

Agreed haha. I mean I love the way nitrotoluenes smell but I don't got huffing the vapor. Idk why I'm being attacked like this. Honestly out here just trying to keep people, their family, and neighbors safe. It really isn't a good idea to make toxic carcinogens in your backyard. Whatever though. Not my problem.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Tsjerk
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2249
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mood

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 02:38


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
I know damn well that you're more of a kid anyway given the posts I've seen about your parents not letting you get chemicals and shit.


You have to help me here, I moved out of my parents place about 13 years ago... From 2005 till 2008 I used my fathers business number to order chemicals which he knew about... They helped my build a fumehood when I was living at their place.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Belowzero
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 86
Registered: 6-5-2020
Location:                 Member Is Offline
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 03:37


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
I've been doing amateur chemistry for ages. I recently got into organic chemistry. I stored my chemicals well, not perfect, but well. I planned out every single experiment for days and always worked outside. I wore all of the appropriate PPE and did everything right.


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  

Well, one of my family members was on the balcony (about 30 feet away which I thought was adequate) and was exposed to it. They smelled something weird and reported a sweet taste in their mouth and slight burning sensation.



You are contradicting yourself here, you say you did everything right.

Clearly not, if you don't have the proper space to conduct experiments that release dangerous fumes you are doing the opposite, namely a highly irresponsible conduct.
Also , its hard to believe you did 'chemistry for ages' while still living at your parents house.


I set aside the practical side of chemistry for years since I had no responsible way of doing such things in an apartment in a dense urban neighborhood however much I disliked it.

Exposing yourself (and this is where we agree) is up to you as long as you are not endangering others.

To use the cookie cutter on your story; its better to put down your chemistry hobby when you don't have the proper space to do it and you can guarantee that you do not expose innocent bystanders.



[Edited on 13-8-2020 by Belowzero]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
RogueRose
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1526
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 03:58


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I was reading this expecting to see some revelation about how you were dying of leukemia or accidentally lost your arm in a freak accident. The part where you lost me is where you referred to your family member as "they" as if you were discussing some generic relative rather than a specific person who got exposed. I think you put a lot of work into this narrative, but I don't believe a word of it, and while you're probably well-meaning, I'd suggest you do your do-gooding somewhere else on a topic you better understand.


Well, considering that I was crying as my mom was coughing her lung out from being exposed to nitric acid vapors I think that I am not some fucking narrative making bastard. This was a while back and still haunts me. I can't believe how crazy people on here are. You are endangering others. I get doing mild shit but come on man. Exposing people to carcinogens and toxic nitro aromatics is just too much.

BTW I was crying since there is no cure for NO2 poisoning and I was reading the delayed pulmonary edema effects. I was fucking lucky she didn't die from that. So fuck everyone on here for caring about others.

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by fdnjj6]


I have to admit that being it is an elderly person who may be a little more "chemophobic" than most of us here, your mom may have also had a partial panic reaction when she started coughing which would excerbate the coughing. I've seen that before. They expect to have the taste/feeling stop, or the feeling inside stop, but they keep coughing not knowing it's not going to stop until it's neutralized by the body, though some of it can be expelled. That can definitely enduce a panic, especially if you've never tasted it or know how it might effect you.

I understand your sentiment and there are definitely people here who could probably use the random reminder every now and again, so don't think the only sentiment is that which you read, and there are probably some that take it to heart and the next time they may take an extra step(s) or precaution.

I know so many people who do so many stupid things when young. I just watched some stupid kid pour about 1+kg of molten yellow hot NaCl into a small kiddie pool, which exploded violently, which caused him to drop the crucible, which created a focused secondary explosion that was directed and nasty. Had he been wearing better PPE, it would have been much better, or had he had a better understanding of what may happen, things may have not gone sideways the way they did.

So, don't think that there aren't people who can't learn, and even if it's just 1-2 people, you don't know if you are preventing a small/minor vapor leak, or some terrible catastrophic disaster with a reminder post as it's kind of amazing how some seemingly minor safety precautions could make a huge difference. Like maybe using a welding blanket in Beirut?? (IDK what started it, but that's what I've heard..)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
JJay
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3412
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 04:05


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I was reading this expecting to see some revelation about how you were dying of leukemia or accidentally lost your arm in a freak accident. The part where you lost me is where you referred to your family member as "they" as if you were discussing some generic relative rather than a specific person who got exposed. I think you put a lot of work into this narrative, but I don't believe a word of it, and while you're probably well-meaning, I'd suggest you do your do-gooding somewhere else on a topic you better understand.


Well, considering that I was crying as my mom was coughing her lung out from being exposed to nitric acid vapors I think that I am not some fucking narrative making bastard. This was a while back and still haunts me. I can't believe how crazy people on here are. You are endangering others. I get doing mild shit but come on man. Exposing people to carcinogens and toxic nitro aromatics is just too much.

BTW I was crying since there is no cure for NO2 poisoning and I was reading the delayed pulmonary edema effects. I was fucking lucky she didn't die from that. So fuck everyone on here for caring about others.

[Edited on 13-8-2020 by fdnjj6]


I'm not endangering others, and you have no knowledge of whether I am endangering others, nor do you have a justification.

Let me just point out that chemistry is dangerous, and you should be well-acquainted with the potential dangers before you do an experiment. If you're feeling guilty about one line of inquiry or another, it may be best if you don't investigate that line of inquiry.

One of my first acts when I got into amateur chemistry was to drop a vial of bromine on the floor in my dorm room. I understood that bromine was pretty nasty stuff, but I hadn't realized how thoroughly repulsive and searing it would be. I was not entirely unprepared for the dangers, and with sodium thiosulfate and a ventilation fan, I managed to avoid detection and subsequent consequences. I also managed to avoid poisoning my neighbors, and I avoided acute toxic effects. I certainly do not suggest that anyone repeat the experience.

NO2 is really quite nasty as well - there is a post on here where I mentioned an experience pulling back the sash of a very simple fume hood that I had put together with clear vinyl sheets, It was designed to seal with gravity and develop a slight vacuum while the fan was running. At that particular moment, it had been filled with an orange gas, and I wanted it to ventilate better. I was nearly knocked down by the ferocity of the fumes, but the hood sealed itself and eventually cleared. Again, there were no effects that lasted beyond my initial shock at how horrible the orange gas was.

Preparation is key.

The chemicals I was dealing with here are pretty horrific, and your first thought on exposure to them would be to run away. I'm more scared, though, of the things that aren't so shockingly nasty - carbon monoxide, phosgene, hydrofluoric acid, dimethyl sulfate, organic mercury - but I would feel safe handling them if I planned ahead and took precautions.

You aren't going to scare chemists away from chemistry. They already know it can be scary. It is important, though, to prevent harm to other people. You have to be prepared. It seems weird to think that you are trying to tell people that you should do chemistry when your mom isn't around, but I don't see what other moral we should take from this story.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
karlos³
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 926
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline

Mood: verrückt & wissenschaftlich

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 04:50


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  

Go sort some more potent carcinogens then. Give the ol dichromate a nice line.

Uhm, I work with this quite regular too, even made aminoketones from aminoalcohols with it(which went into my nose by the way), but I have to disappoint you: dichromate salts don't smell at all.
I like their colours though :)

Your fictional story got more and more entertaining by the way.
But less believable the more you freaked out.
You should work on your writing skills some more.
I wouldn't publish this stuff, to be honest.

My recommendation would be not to hang around too much(or at all) at r/chemistry, it seems you can get infected with chemophobia there, replacing reason and thoughtfulness with hysteria.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
macckone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1669
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline

Mood: Electrical

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 07:33


I have worked with really nasty chemicals (chloroacetone as an example).
I got a good whiff of chloroacetone once, noone does that twice.

I have for the most part been doing inorganic chemistry for the last few years due to a lack of an appropriate place to deal with toxic and carcinogenic chemicals. I am currently building a fume hood in my new place.

Not everyone has a good place to do organic chemistry.
If you don't then you shouldn't. Ochem is a larger commit than inorganic.
Organics smell and can be toxic and carcinogenic.
Most are not that toxic and are not going to give you instant cancer.
But you have to know what you are dealing with and the best way to deal with it.
Not the least of which is using teflon tape or sleeves instead of liquid to seal joints when vacuum grease isn't sufficient. Very few things in ochem will attack teflon and most organics use lower temps.
Using sulfuric to seal joints is usually only appropriate for very high BP compounds and those are usually inorganic.

If you don't have a space outside with controlled access then you shouldn't be using it for potentially toxic reactions. You need to know where your fumes are going too.

Home chemistry can be done responsibly but it requires an appropriate place and not everyone has a place to do everything.

As to the OP, mononitrotoluene is not that bad. It is only a health diamond of 2. PEL is 5ppm which is well above the detectable limit. And that is for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I single whiff is not going to kill someone at barely detectable levels. The acute 4 hour LC50 is greater than 197ppm. That is way more than a whiff. The LD50 890mg/kg, that is about the same as bleach and chlorine has a lower PEL (0.5ppm). Don't drink bleach, don't drink mononitrotoluene. For perspective this is about 3 times as toxic as table salt.

Don't freak out but do evaluate your lab practices.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
outer_limits
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 102
Registered: 3-3-2020
Member Is Offline

Mood: hybridized

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 08:02


Even if you don't have designated lab area where you can safely conduct the experiments on normal scale (I mean grams, hundred of grams) you can proceed with microscale and do almost everything.

Of course, assuming that you like chemistry and want to continue.

Using systems with scrubbers at the end would significantly reduce the contamination of nearby area .

Personally, I am the person who likes chemistry (especially the practical part) and sometimes I am a bit scared of the things that I do. But it can't stop me from the things that I like.
As karlos mentioned - many of chemists lived long life even if they were doing the things that nobody today would do.

Regarding carcinogenic agents - I doubt if accidental and short exposition will make somebody ill and I would just ask my family to close the windows for the time when the air could be contaminated.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fyndium
National Hazard
****




Posts: 315
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 12:36


I was worried about styrene.

PEL for it is 100ppm for 8h a day, and it's odor treshold is 0.016ppm or 70 micrograms per cubic meter and it is easily characterizable by most in 4-5 times that amount.

When I consider that styrene is used in composite manufacturing in large scale and I visit occasionally a boat shop where they still do that styrene lamination process by hand, they basically live with the fumes. If I smell it when I measure it and pour it in closed vessel, my exposure can be at most marginal.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 13:43


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  

Go sort some more potent carcinogens then. Give the ol dichromate a nice line.

Uhm, I work with this quite regular too, even made aminoketones from aminoalcohols with it(which went into my nose by the way), but I have to disappoint you: dichromate salts don't smell at all.
I like their colours though :)

Your fictional story got more and more entertaining by the way.
But less believable the more you freaked out.
You should work on your writing skills some more.
I wouldn't publish this stuff, to be honest.

My recommendation would be not to hang around too much(or at all) at r/chemistry, it seems you can get infected with chemophobia there, replacing reason and thoughtfulness with hysteria.


Mein Freund, was ich geposted habe ist keine Geschichte. Es ist alles wahr was ich gesagt habe. Ich habe keine Ahnung warum jeder hier meint das ich am luegen bin. Ich have echte Angst fuer die Leute die in meiner naehe sind waerend ich am experimenten bin. Warum findet ihr alle es okay eure Nachbarn solche Chemikalien zu inhalieren lassen? Ernsthaft. Und was macht ihr mitt dem Abfall? Einfach in den Muel werfen??

View user's profile View All Posts By User
fdnjj6
Banned by request
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 20-2-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pissed

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 13:47


Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits  
Even if you don't have designated lab area where you can safely conduct the experiments on normal scale (I mean grams, hundred of grams) you can proceed with microscale and do almost everything.

Of course, assuming that you like chemistry and want to continue.

Using systems with scrubbers at the end would significantly reduce the contamination of nearby area .

Personally, I am the person who likes chemistry (especially the practical part) and sometimes I am a bit scared of the things that I do. But it can't stop me from the things that I like.
As karlos mentioned - many of chemists lived long life even if they were doing the things that nobody today would do.

Regarding carcinogenic agents - I doubt if accidental and short exposition will make somebody ill and I would just ask my family to close the windows for the time when the air could be contaminated.


My point isn't about your safety, it's about those around you. I'm fine with exposing myself to the chemicals accidentally. It's the risk I accept. But the kids next door? Come on. I know carcinogens typically work on a chronic exposure deal but the higher up potent carcinogens have been shown to cause cancer in single exposures. Given that most carcinogens lack proper testing in humans, you *have* to assume they are one of the potent ones. Exposing innocent people without permission is wrong on many levels. The waste just being dumped (don't lie, amateurs do this shit all the time and I'm not innocent of it either) is illegal in some places and extremely damaging to the environment as well as highly unethical.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Chemorg42
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 98
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Concentrated

[*] posted on 13-8-2020 at 13:47


I enjoyed how the "Coughing incident" just got more dramatic as the web of paranoid lies unfolded.



Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top