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Author: Subject: Societal Issue around COVID (in my city anyway)
outer_limits
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[*] posted on 1-10-2020 at 21:43


There are hundred of thousands victims of COVID in my country and the number is still growing.

Those are the people having cancer who can't continue their therapy because hospitals switched to covid treatment. People with heart diseases and infractions who can't get help in time because of the stupid decisions.
People who could be cured but they can't because the diagnostics is not available, guess why.

People who lost their jobs and homes due to the debts that were caused by the lockdown.

I don't deny the existence of the virus as many do. But look at the statistics - 23.7 * 10^6 of people who survived and 1.02 * 10^6 of deaths. That gives the mortality of 4.3%.
Remember that not all of them died from this disease. If someone died from diabetes, stroke, heart attack or accident and had the covid he will be included in the victims count.
So, I suppose that the mortality is much lower, maybe 1.5-2%.

But take a look what's going on. There are people who get very rich due to pandemic and panic. The government (at least here) is able to make the law that wouldn't be possible without scaring the shit out of people.

In normal conditions we consider a person having a virus and being able to spread it but without any problems caused by it as disease carrier. But here they started to naming it as being ill without symptoms.
Just to scare the people.


[Edited on 2-10-2020 by outer_limits]
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[*] posted on 1-10-2020 at 22:35


Well, in my corner of the world, it just isn't a thing to try to open doors etc with a sleeve. Which speaks to the issue that the spread of (any) disease is dependent on human behaviour (ie, cultural matters). Which implies that blanket rulings, policies and even opinions on the disease need to locally rather than universally applied.

It also explains why there is often such diversity of opinion even among scientifically literate people such as are on this board.


My particular beef is this – I live in a country where politicians have taken it upon themselves to promote fear and to prescribe draconian laws to control people's behaviour, out of proportion to any health risk and even contrary to health advice. Thrown into the mix is a whole lot of political point-scoring and a scandalous abdication of responsibility. If you are interested, look up what has happened in the states of Victoria and Queensland Australia. Sky News Australia is a good place to begin. The shutdown of the economy and the literal locking of people in their homes has cost billions and has caused enormous health concerns far in excess of the damage and death that COVID caused. There has been a severe erosion of civil liberties. (For details, search "omnibus bill VIC" for a proposed law to give appointed public servants the right to make arrests and to detain people indefinitely on the suspicion that they might break a law at some stage in the future. These people would be given powers in excess of regular police powers including forcible entry and search and arrest without warrant. The laws that people might potentially break include being outside for longer that 2 hours, travelling more than 5km from home, wanting to exercise playing tennis (golf and cricket are now ok though) and failing to wear a mask outside working on a farm miles from any other person.) None of this has any relation to real health concerns.

There are plenty who welcome these measures, unreasonably fearful in the situation and convinced that the politicians are keeping them safe. There is a real need for some good, well-presented scientific information to put the virus in its proper perspective, to guide public policy and to inform people so that they can make intelligent decisions about their own actions. I don't see it happening though.




[mod note]
Thread seems to be just fine. I gather the mask thread was not. Let's keep this one informative and congenial.
J.
[/mod note]

[edit] typo

[Edited on 2-10-2020 by j_sum1]
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[*] posted on 2-10-2020 at 03:25


Such a strange approach j_sum1.
Yep, would love to get to Qld right now, but NSW needs 30 days straight of no community transmission before I can. I bet we can't, I also bet Qld can't. So weird......
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[*] posted on 2-10-2020 at 08:01


outer_limits,
People who die from traumatic injury in the US are not counted as covid deaths.
Stroke, Heart Attack, Kidney Failure and Liver Failure are the modes of death from covid.
Few people actually die of hypoxia.
As I pointed out in my post the excess death count (which does not include trauma), indicates it is actually killed more people, not less.

I have pre-diabetes, sleep apnea, overweight, and high blood pressure I will probably live another 40 years absent getting covid.
If I have a heart attack does that mean my death should not count?
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[*] posted on 2-10-2020 at 10:30


I agree, these are the modes of covid death.

But here it is a bit different situation than in US. The hospitals are paid by government . They get more money for covid cases and they are trying to maximize their income.

The organization here is a pure chaos. People locked in homes are receiving the phone calls that they must undergo the full quarantine because they are positive. It wouldn't be strange and surprising but some of them were not tested.
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