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Author: Subject: Looking for recommendations for attorneys in DFW area
Cou
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[*] posted on 9-11-2020 at 23:17
Looking for recommendations for attorneys in DFW area


I am very concerned about a possible civil asset forfeiture, because I ordered 250 grams of red phosphorus from Russia for legitimate uses in regioselective bromination of alcohols in order to make grignard reagents, and synthesis of methyl iodide, for making fragrant alcohols.

my fear is that customs will find the package, forward the info to local PD, and a stupid judge will think red P alone is enough reasonable suspicion for a search warrant. and SWAT will break down my door and ransack the house and confiscate my thousands of dollars worth of equipment, putting an end to my hobby. even though red P is legal (dea list I chemicals are legal, just watched) and I have no drugs or Sudafed.

i have thousands of dollars saved up and i'm willing to pay an attorney to save my hobby.

Can anyone recommend me a lawyer in or near DFW? I've already emailed one who specializes in civil asset forfeiture, but I've heard recommendations are best.

[Edited on 11-10-2020 by Cou]




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ArbuzToWoda
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[*] posted on 9-11-2020 at 23:21


Oh! That was your post there, now I get it. It's going to be okay, Cou. If you don't get the "love letter" like they described it over there you have not much to worry about. Thinking about a lawyer for the future might be a good option, but please, for the love of Cthulu, do not get paranoid about this or you won't sleep at night.

I hope someone here can help you with your searches, take care.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 00:22


Hi Cou, I work with lawyers quite a lot.
Your equipment would need to be worth many thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars before it would be worth getting a lawyer involved.
The representation for a case like this will be many thousands of dollars in fees.
Most importantly, if you are not breaking any laws you have nothing to worry about. Focus on your passion for chemistry, developing your business and enjoying your hobby.
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Metacelsus
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 03:37


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  

Most importantly, if you are not breaking any laws you have nothing to worry about.


Sadly this is not always true. But I would agree with the other advice. It's way too early to hire a lawyer in OP's situation.




As below, so above.
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macckone
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 09:13


Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  

Most importantly, if you are not breaking any laws you have nothing to worry about.


Sadly this is not always true. But I would agree with the other advice. It's way too early to hire a lawyer in OP's situation.


That statement is seldom true. The militarized policing situation means that they may execute you in your own home because they perceive a threat. All it takes is a warrant. Having a lawyer on retainer is not a bad thing. They can help with all kinds of things and fees can bse reasonable, provided they are on retainer. You get much better rates if you place a lawyer on retainer rather than calling them in the middle of the night out of the blue.

On another note, importing red phosphorus and other listed chemicals without a registration and prior notice is in fact illegal. Purchasing or possessing red phosphorus is not but most companies will not sell to individuals because of the paperwork involved.
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 10:25


Fears/Nawachti <<yes, real lawyers



Quote:
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Mark Twain


Smash. All. Icons
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Cou
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 11:27


Im considering mailing the DEA form 486.

https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr_reports/chemicals/4...

They might check your premises before approving it, and I fear the big doodooheads won't approve of a small home lab.

The only thing that happens if you don't mail the form is that customs stops the package




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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 13:09


I would wait and see what happens, there is no telling if customs will open the package, what it might be labelled ( I have received some items from China labelled incorrectly to make it easier for them to ship or to avoid customs.) I have known one person in Australia to have issues with customs seizing a package, but they had already had prior issues, and it was the local police, who might have already been looking for things. Otherwise, I have had a few packages clearly opened and resealed and send on, according to the recipient. Even chemicals going to Canada made it a while back, but non-harmful. If the package is not properly labelled, they can impound it for being shipped incorrectly, and the shipper can be fined or prosecuted, but hard to enforce in China or Russia. The recipient should not be liable unless the material is clearly illegal.
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 13:27


Rent a warehouse with cash and stash all your stuff in there in case of an incoming raid. Or have a friend to keep them for a while.

And meanwhile, keep something very cheap that fits your story, like minerals and elements for collection. They can forfeit a sack of rocks if they mind.
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 13:48


I wouldn't worry about it until anything happens. And if it does contact the ACLU of Texas for help & referrals... they can aggregate information and cases to better help the public.
I see civil asset forfeiture is a problem in Texas (among other regions/states). Quote:
Quote:
The law also limited how law enforcement can spend the money they seize, banning officials from using it to pay for things like margarita machines, as former Montgomery County District Attorney Michael McDougal did in 2005 — or trips to Hawaii, as a former Hill Country district attorney, Ron Sutton, did from 2002 to 2007. The legislation passed just months after a former South Texas district attorney pleaded guilty to misappropriating more than $2 million in seized funds, paying $1.2 million in bonuses to three secretaries and another $81,000 to himself.


On the eye-opening lab seizure thread, my guess is there may have been closet racism going on towards the individual with the heavy Syrian accent. It is a big problem in the U.S.A.




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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 16:55


You probably have nothing to worry about, Cou. Nothing wrong with having a lawyer in mind, but calling one up now would definitely be premature. Shipping from Russia has been really slow this year. In all likelihood it hasn't even entered the country yet. About four and a half years ago, I ordered a small amount (250 g) of red phosphorus from Poland, and it arrived in my mailbox in Texas without an issue. I don't remember what it was marked as, but it didn't appear to have been opened. I split it half and half with my high school chemistry teacher, who wanted some for demonstrating Armstrong's mixture in class.

I did not realize at that time that it was technically illegal, but honestly for sub-kilogram amounts it seems very unlikely that the feds would bother investigating even if customs did turn up the package. Worst case, it gets confiscated and you end up on some list to make sure you aren't importing mass quantities of more definitive drug precursors.




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karlos³
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 16:59


Lawyer are helpful, but wait till you need one.
They are expensive as hell.

Mine cost me more than the fines, but he saved me a few months behind bars(and that was for drug production and not for buying something.... well the few liters of EtNO2 brought them to me, but only because of a snitch).

So you will be fine.
The burden of proof is on them you really ordered that.
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biggrin.gif posted on 10-11-2020 at 17:10


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Lawyer are helpful, but wait till you need one.
They are expensive as hell.

Mine cost me more than the fines, but he saved me a few months behind bars(and that was for drug production and not for buying something.... well the few liters of EtNO2 brought them to me, but only because of a snitch).

So you will be fine.
The burden of proof is on them you really ordered that.

Woah, that's something I didn't know. Though you said you never sold or never wanted to sell illegal substances. Or that was just a "for the cops looking through your computer" disclaimer.
We're glad you're not behind bars though, that would be rough.
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Cou
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 17:29


You can do your time and get out. I don't think being behind bars is the worst thing. What would really destroy me is losing all the equipment and glassware that I spent thousands on, and having a criminal record.



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karlos³
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 17:38


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
You can do your time and get out. I don't think being behind bars is the worst thing. What would really destroy me is losing all the equipment and glassware that I spent thousands on, and having a criminal record.

Cou I survived it too, I grief for it sometimes, but I stocked up well and a few months after the bust was already doing chemistry again.
The court hearing was 2 years after it happened, at that point I already made a dozen of compounds again.

But you are just paranoid, stop worrying ok?
Nobody can prove you yourself ordered it.
Get your shit together and man up, they can't do you anything.
And if they try, man, you're in america, just sue the heck out of them!

Quote: Originally posted by ArbuzToWoda  

Woah, that's something I didn't know. Though you said you never sold or never wanted to sell illegal substances. Or that was just a "for the cops looking through your computer" disclaimer.
We're glad you're not behind bars though, that would be rough.


I never sold or wanted to sell something ever and thats the truth which I swear by the almighty and eternal one.
Not for the cops, what do I care about them, but for my personal honour.
I had a middle man, a friend I thought, who redirected the nitroethane and snitched on me despite being totally clear and safe when the police came to him.
Much of the nitroethane went into experimentation and a lot of it got wasted, the remainer went into fuelling a raging amphetamine habit :D
These times were good times, I enjoyed most of it very much.
If I had sold anything, I would be free less time than I was into, at this point.
Been a few years :D

If you make drugs, don't involve anyone else and tell nobody except your wife maybe(if she's a good one).
Although I got wiser and so did my family, among my inner core family its fine.
Whats better, lots of money and drugs and a neverending fear of getting busted, or being happy, having more drugs than to consume, but being not very fluid financially yet getting good sleep at night(well, when you don't consume, that is ;))?
I prefer the second option, what do I need that much money for even?
I like being happy the most, not being rich.

Although I got an impressive drug collection over the years, just a dozen milligrams usually, but a neat number of various exotic things :D
When they ever get legalised maybe I'll get analysis certificates for all of them and make it a museum? :o
Like, amfonelic acid, semisynthetic ibogaine, 5-bromo DET, 3F-aPPP, N-pentyl 3-(2-chlorobenzoyl)indole and what not besides the boring standards :D

Thats a fulfilling thing for me, much more than having to do with shady idiots I actually despise so much...
I got into drug making, plants, fungal, natural and synthetic ones, for the explicit reason to DON'T have something to do with them.
That was always my number 1 driving force, nowadays its something else, the love for it.
But that was already present at my first hemp seedlings, my first innoculated fruiting cake, DMT extract and finally my first fully synthetic compounds, and from then on the rest is history.
Drug making is a hobby and an art form for itself, its organic chemistry with a passion even most organic chemists don't understand or have.
Because there is love in some of these molecules on a level that is impossible to grasp without firsthand experience.
And thats why I don't hesitate speaking openly about it.
Who do I have to fear even?
Keeping quiet has never changed anything.

[Edited on 11-11-2020 by karlos³]
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Cou
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 18:16


that is true. the majority of packages going through customs never even get opened. the worst thing that can happen is a "love letter"
then at that point i can debate either sending the DEA form, or investing in equipment to make red P at home (so inefficient and difficult, i don't know how to make a furnace. i would need someone to give me a foolproof shopping list of exactly what i need to buy)




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karlos³
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 18:53


Whats with a furnace? How much do you even need?
The striker pad method is still fine, I made good stuff with it, just keep in mind half of it is actual glass powder.
That stuff is fine enough for you to make your products from.

Sending in a DEA thingie is only self incrimination and will get you nowhere good.
Please don't do that.

[Edited on 11-11-2020 by karlos³]
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Cou
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 18:58


Don't you need like hundreds of striker pads to get a decent amount of red P?



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karlos³
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 19:17


Yeah, so what?
I don't remember the numbers, but it was far more than I expected and I used far less than I thought I had to.
I think 10x 20s packs or such, no.t much really.
And I had like a single dozen grams.
Keep in mind those numbers are just what I thought it was, might be much less(not more though).

I had matches enough for years though :P
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Cou
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[*] posted on 10-11-2020 at 20:38


I think the worst that can happen is that the order gets stuck at customs, but it's more likely to go through than not. People order actual drugs in bulk through customs. Worst you will get is a love letter. sry about the paranoid again.

If it doesn't work out. I want someone here to spoonfeed me a step-by-step guide on how to make red P at home, for idiots. give me a shopping list and all. because i can't figure it out.
no i don't know how to make white P either.




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[*] posted on 4-12-2020 at 17:31


As mentioned r-P is procured via match books... it’s easy, sit there and watch movies and tear off the striker pads. Put in 5 gal bucket with solvent, let it soak, then spin the crap out of it with a paint mixer.

W-P requires distilling a mix of triple super pho’s fertilizer with sand or carbon or both? I forget.. but feed the condensate into pure h2o. It requires a MAPP, or propylene or acetylene torch in my experience but maybe an oxy fuel torch would work.
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[*] posted on 10-4-2021 at 00:40


If DFW means Dallas-Fort-Worth, you might be in trouble.

The DEA has Red Phosphorus as a List 1 Chemical. If you can find a USA supplier, you can buy it.

It probably isn't illegal to possess it.

But, you cannot sell or transfer it, without a license. And, you cannot IMPORT it.

You knew this. It has been discussed here many times. It is illegal to import list 1 chemicals, without government permission.

Hopefully, since the successful regulation of Ephedrine products, the Justice Department, has eased up on Red Phosphorus a little bit.

You make YouTube videos? Get a business license. Use that license to legally purchase supplies from USA suppliers.

You are treading on very thin ice.

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[*] posted on 13-4-2021 at 04:18


Quote: Originally posted by zed  
If DFW means Dallas-Fort-Worth, you might be in trouble.

The DEA has Red Phosphorus as a List 1 Chemical. If you can find a USA supplier, you can buy it.

It probably isn't illegal to possess it.

But, you cannot sell or transfer it, without a license. And, you cannot IMPORT it.

You knew this. It has been discussed here many times. It is illegal to import list 1 chemicals, without government permission.

Hopefully, since the successful regulation of Ephedrine products, the Justice Department, has eased up on Red Phosphorus a little bit.

You make YouTube videos? Get a business license. Use that license to legally purchase supplies from USA suppliers.

You are treading on very thin ice.



https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/open/legacy/2014...
See page 12. DEA registration for importation seems to only apply to List I chemicals (which red phosphorus falls under.)

[Edited on 4-13-2021 by monolithic]
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