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Author: Subject: Azides without nitrites
aromaticfanatic
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[*] posted on 22-11-2020 at 13:29
Azides without nitrites


https://youtu.be/53BvufurXKA

This video I found hi lites a procedure that is very simple. From this you can make lead azide, sodium azide, copper azide, silver azide, etc.

The major drawback is the good amount of HN3 produced. From the reading I've done, 10% in water is apparently the limit for being safely distilled. I believe HN3 forms an azeotrope with water and so that azeotrope would come over and I am not sure what concentration that entails.

Since I don't see the water/acid boiling off and only the HN3 with some water, how high is the risk of explosion?

If instead of a blowtorch one would use electrical heating, the risk should be reduced too. I know that distilling HN3 is extremely risky but the same thread mentioned that heating the mix at a lower temp wouldn't pose much risk.

There is obviously still risk of poisoning but at the absolute minimum, a good fan, outside, leading the gas that isn't used up in the first solution into another scrubber, small scale, and a supply of air (I believe respirators wouldn't work for this at all) could mitigate the poisoning risk.

I don't plan to do this as I don't trust myself with azides but I am curious as to how dangerous this process would truly be.

Basically boiling off a highly lethal and explosive gas just to avoid using nitrites seems like quite the compromise but perhaps it is a viable method for small scales for those who do not have access to nitrites.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 22-11-2020 at 13:55


That is not a blow torch it is a heat gun. It is safer to use something that allows you to take the heat away immediately once it is self sustaining to help minimise the chance of a runaway.
It is a very interesting reaction and one I have on my list to do.
When I was researching the reaction I found this thread to be helpful
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1987&a...
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aromaticfanatic
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[*] posted on 22-11-2020 at 20:57


Oh woops you are definitely right that was not a blow torch. I recalled this from memory so I assume the shape of the metal made me think it was a blow torch in my mind haha.

Thank you for the link. I have looked through that thread but the page you highlighted goes into better detail. Thank you.
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MidLifeChemist
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[*] posted on 22-11-2020 at 21:13


"Hydrazoic acid is volatile and highly toxic. It has a pungent smell and its vapor can cause violent headaches. The compound acts as a non-cumulative poison."

Sounds like a fun compound.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 22-11-2020 at 22:09


It is also explosive and one of its discoverers described it as having a traumatizing odor.

Edit - the azide family is not a friendly one, though sodium azide has saved countless lives when it was formally used in airbags.

[Edited on 23-11-2020 by B(a)P]
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Alkoholvergiftung
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[*] posted on 23-11-2020 at 09:54


Another route would be Zinkamid and N2O Gas at 150C it forms Zinkazide.Less dangerous than other routes.
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aromaticfanatic
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[*] posted on 26-11-2020 at 15:29


Quote: Originally posted by Alkoholvergiftung  
Another route would be Zinkamid and N2O Gas at 150C it forms Zinkazide.Less dangerous than other routes.


Very good point. I have seen azide being synthesized from sodium amide. Issue being you cannot find zinc or sodium azide sold anywhere. At least I haven't. Making it would be an option but it's quite a project in my case. Making anhydrous ammonia and condensing it and then making sodium metal. Not to mention you'll need to probably isolate it from the air as it absorbs water like crazy and makes ammonia gas as a result.




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