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Author: Subject: LL8 from Dr. Liptakov
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[*] posted on 22-1-2024 at 09:00


That's the just a difference.....12.4 grade pops with less sharp sound. But 13 N and more has similar sound a like CHP.
Of course, it require a lot years of practice with hammer.
0.05g of NC is wrapped in Alu foil. And hammering. If micrometeorites fly from the foil and stay under the skin on the hand, it is a high VoD over 6000m/s...:D
Glasses a condition..!




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[*] posted on 22-1-2024 at 09:51


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  

Reagents for preparation:
Cu(ClO4)2 (hexahydrate)........2,4g
Hexamine ...............................0,6g
Ethanol commerce grade .......1,5g
H2O distiled.............................0,5g

What active formula does LL8 have?
mC6H12N4*HClO4+nNH4ClO4
or
mC6H12N4*HClO4+n[Cu(NH3)4](ClO4)2
?

Is it possible to prepare Cu(ClO4)2 from KClO4 or NH4ClO4 from KClO4?

[Edited on 22-1-2024 by Etanol]
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[*] posted on 22-1-2024 at 11:19


KClO4 was not tryied for prepare Cu(ClO4)2. I estimate, that it will difficult or impossible. NH4ClO4 is possible from NaClO4 10 + NH4Cl 4.36 = NH4ClO4 9.6 + NaCl 4.77. Classic double replacement. Active formula is unknown for LL8.



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[*] posted on 24-1-2024 at 12:59


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Active formula is unknown for LL8.

Can You conduct such an experiment?:
7.0g C2H12N4 (in 50ml dist H2O) + 18.5g Cu(ClO4)2*6H2O (in 50-100ml H2O)
Blue insoluble substance should be filtered, washed with water and dried.
Does the blue insoluble substance burn?
Does the blue insoluble substance burn as an oxidizing agent in a mix with sugar powder?
=>
The insoluble substance is
Cu(OH)2 ?
Cu(OH)ClO4 ?
Cu(OH)ClO4*nNH3 ?

The product of the cocrystallization of hexamine and NH4ClO4 burns much more slowly than LL8 or [Cu(NH3)4](ClO4)2. So, copper plays an important role in the LL8.
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[*] posted on 25-1-2024 at 02:09


Unfortunately, I don't have any copper perchlorate. Your requirements would require a full day of work. And I don't have time for that now. Maybe in future.
Yes, the copper molecule plays a vital role in the high performance of all perchlorate mixtures.




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[*] posted on 26-1-2024 at 00:39


My hypothesis is that Cu8 contains a complex compound, similiar to the one found in Fedoroff, 7, H82.

In "Hexamethylenetetramino-Tetrazido-Copper" hexamine acts as "bridge" between two copper azide molecules, in Cu8 it holds two copper perchlorate molecules.

Screenshot 2024-01-26 105420.png - 9kB




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[*] posted on 26-1-2024 at 07:27


Quote: Originally posted by EF2000  
My hypothesis is that Cu8 contains a complex compound, similiar to the one found in Fedoroff, 7, H82.

In "Hexamethylenetetramino-Tetrazido-Copper" hexamine acts as "bridge" between two copper azide molecules, in Cu8 it holds two copper perchlorate molecules.

According to "X-ray Crystallography and Thermolysis of Ammonium Perchlorate & Protonated Hexamethylenetetramine Perchlorate Prepared by Newer Methods. Part 69" DOI:10.1615/IntJEnergeticMaterialsChemProp.2011002679
hexamine do not form complex with Cu(ClO4)2.
It form C6H12N4*HClO4 and blue insoluble substance containing copper, also decomposes into CH2O and NH4ClO4.
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[*] posted on 10-2-2024 at 02:59


During an several tests was created special shape of detonator which looks a like steel spider...:cool:

D1.jpg - 127kB D2.jpg - 131kB D3.jpg - 136kB




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[*] posted on 23-2-2024 at 08:19


Curious if you have tried britelight with commercial NC 12%+.
Has there been success in initiating sensitive secondary’s? I realize that little bit of extra nitration level of the NC could be the difference.
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[*] posted on 24-2-2024 at 04:44


Brightelite with NC12%+ is not reliable. For reliability is necessary shotgun powder (content NG) or homemade NC with 13% +.
Because one cavity content ony cca 0.2g NC, is advantage prepare NC in 2 steps. Double nitration. This method was tested and final NC is reliable....:cool:




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[*] posted on 24-2-2024 at 08:42


Makes sense. I was able to acquire a few lbs of commercial grande NC from a fellow hobbiest that I don’t know the nitration %. It is very clean , large flakes of som what compressed material. I store it under 100% lab grade alcohol so drying a sample is fast and ready with acetone.
Is there a titration or way to test ? Assuming it’s commercial standard , is the %! Usually 12.5+%?

I see the attractiveness of the brightelite ,and it’s moisture resistance from the NC. Very neat pyro comp indeed. Any other applications for this material? Damn near could make a awesome rocket propellant.
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[*] posted on 24-2-2024 at 12:53


Testing sure exist, but is it question for chemist. (I am not) Therefore is easily do it secondary nitration and try result. Pure 12,5% or 13,5%
has on air almost same behavior. But in cavity is difference big....:cool:




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[*] posted on 29-2-2024 at 08:21


Quick question(s), on your assembly of the cap, are you using ss tube with epoxy base ?
Your secondary is pressed at high density, followed by the second increment less dense of (50/50 primary and secondary mix?) , then a primary at low density ? So I guess the main question is the 50/50 increment if that is my misunderstanding. Also have you tried aircraft Al for your caps vs the ss? Any gain using a stronger metal, besides mechanical safety
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[*] posted on 29-2-2024 at 09:06


Quote: Originally posted by pjig  
Quick question(s), on your assembly of the cap, are you using ss tube with epoxy base ?
Your secondary is pressed at high density, followed by the second increment less dense of (50/50 primary and secondary mix?) , then a primary at low density ? So I guess the main question is the 50/50 increment if that is my misunderstanding. Also have you tried aircraft Al for your caps vs the ss? Any gain using a stronger metal, besides mechanical safety


Al can react with some energetic material, SS do not.
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[*] posted on 29-2-2024 at 11:11


pjig.....Yes, usually the padding design is as per your description. Nothing epoxy based. Only the aluminum foil ball - bumping - creates an aluminum sheet with a thickness of 0.3 mm. Secondary EM is usually 0.3g ETN pressed into 10 - 30 kg. The middle segment is usually 0.10g ETN + 0.10g investigated EM, pressed into 1 - 3 kg. The initial segment is 0.3g only investigated EM, compressed to 1-3 kg. Primary - secondary EM are usually tested. I use my own standard. Hollow structural steel, 6/8 x 50... :cool:



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[*] posted on 29-2-2024 at 19:05


Copy that… makes sense. I assume you could use a former to create a convex of the pressed plug of Al to make like a commercial cap . I have tried a couple other methods that produce a excellent mini shaped wave for a cap. . No glues used for your aluminum base ? Have you had any issues loosing the plug or moisture migration?
Thank you for sharing so much cool info , I wish I had more to time to contribute to the threads . Nice to see some simple and relevant info on the SM forum
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[*] posted on 29-2-2024 at 19:11


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
pjig.....Yes, usually the padding design is as per your description. Nothing epoxy based. Only the aluminum foil ball - bumping - creates an aluminum sheet with a thickness of 0.3 mm. Secondary EM is usually 0.3g ETN pressed into 10 - 30 kg. The middle segment is usually 0.10g ETN + 0.10g investigated EM, pressed into 1 - 3 kg. The initial segment is 0.3g only investigated EM, compressed to 1-3 kg. Primary - secondary EM are usually tested. I use my own standard. Hollow structural steel, 6/8 x 50... :cool:


On aliexpress they also sell bundles of 7x8x50mm bodies with one end sealed. :)
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[*] posted on 1-3-2024 at 22:59


That sounds pretty nifty. Are they ss or Al
I suppose you could order a ton from china,or a sample for closed capsule for some application battery lol , but have to order 10,000 to make a order

[Edited on 2-3-2024 by pjig]
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[*] posted on 2-3-2024 at 15:26


Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests  


On aliexpress they also sell bundles of 7x8x50mm bodies with one end sealed. :)


Link ?
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[*] posted on 30-3-2024 at 18:38


Intrigued with the Nitrocelite , it has moderate anvil sensitivity as described, burns kinda weakly energetic. Haven’t encapsulated it . For A DDT test. It on its own w/o secondary, can it DDT, and even if weak, is is it enough like flash , capable of pushing ANAL to a det?

[Edited on 31-3-2024 by pjig]

[Edited on 31-3-2024 by pjig]
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[*] posted on 30-3-2024 at 23:00


Not. Nitrocelite is weak for initiation any mixture on AN base.



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[*] posted on 31-3-2024 at 08:39


By the way it burns it seems weak. Anvil test is pretty energetic, but does take a good hit to go. Did you leave your materials in granular riced form for ease of packing , or reduce it to a finer powder or grain? As for fuse ignition in a tube , capsule…etc. Will it ddt? Or as your method of ignition bridge wire ( is it doped with a pyrogen?)!I imagine standard ematch will do the same. Doesnthe comp need a snappy ignition v.s. Fuse

Another thought crossed my mind , using k-dichromate catalyst to further sensitize and make more reactive . May not be necessary or desired due to the toxic salt . It is valuable in whistle fuels however for that purpose.

[Edited on 31-3-2024 by pjig]

[Edited on 31-3-2024 by pjig]
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[*] posted on 31-3-2024 at 21:50


Best are grain 2x2 mm. Yes, can be used fuse ignition. No doped with pyrogen. Yes, k-dichromate can be used as senzitizer. For example 1 - 3 %.



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[*] posted on 2-4-2024 at 07:22


I haven’t had a chance to encapsulate it to see if it behaves like a primary . I’m Assuming approx.5g to by self should pop energetically if confined and correctly mixed in proper ratios, and correct nitration of said binder13%+. Smokeless powder .
Have you tried just the said mixture by its self to see if it ddt’s
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[*] posted on 8-4-2024 at 06:50


Nitrocelite:
Not getting a primary type reaction out of the material. It seems no better than Bp. In a sealed metal tube it pops w/o damaging the tube. So I assume either the nc was old military surplus or the AP was the issue(not fine enough). It was standard 200- mesh, acetone added to wet the AP, then a NC laq added (very thick probably 50% ratio) to appropriate %of comp. Stirred and manipulated for 20+ min, granulated with 1x1 mesh screen, dried. Hammering gets it go like a secondary, but no ddt or ematch reaction as a primary.

[Edited on 8-4-2024 by pjig]

[Edited on 8-4-2024 by pjig]
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