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Author: Subject: Nickel aminoguanidine diperchlorate
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[*] posted on 26-5-2024 at 13:55


Quote: Originally posted by pjig  
Any new findings for the threshold ddt amount for the NAP? 25mg seems a little high compared to other primaries like azides . Azides boast a .5~10 mg ddt ability on their initiation qualities. Pretty low compared to most primaries on the market

[Edited on 26-5-2024 by pjig]


When it is in the form of approximately 1 mm crystals it detonates in amounts starting from 5 to 10 mg in my experience.
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[*] posted on 26-5-2024 at 20:37


Quote: Originally posted by pjig  
Any new findings for the threshold ddt amount for the NAP? 25mg seems a little high compared to other primaries like azides . Azides boast a .5~10 mg ddt ability on their initiation qualities. Pretty low compared to most primaries on the market

[Edited on 26-5-2024 by pjig]


For DDT, NAP detonates in single crystals, it certainly detonates in any range of higher masses. I think you mean standard minimum firings of secondaries?
There are quite a few issues with the minimum mass firing measurements in literature. The configuration of firing device, the density of the secondary, has a significant effect on detonation transfer when dealing with mg masses. These things typically aren't accounted for in literature, so comparisons without firing configurations and densities, aren't apples to apples or straight forward at all. It can be misleading if you assume it's all the same. For instance if detonating loose secondary, such as a loose pile of RDX, NAP can transfer detonation in minute quantities and there are differences in minimum quantities of NAP for other secondaries such as ETN.

Then there are detonator configurations which are the more realistic test medium. Detonator designs are all over the place. Most commercial IP is withheld so it just requires reproductions and comparisons. If a blasting cap has a compression cup, it reduces the minimum primary mass, sometimes by half. If a secondary is pressed to max density, it increases the minimum mass of primary needed to initiate.

I read your post as to insinuate that somehow NAP is not as powerful at initiation as common azide. It's quite a bit more powerful than Pb(N3)2. I dont know what to tell you, you should try both and see what your judgement is. Everyone I know that uses NAP, most of them are azide people, I'm an azide enjoyer. NAP is obviously more powerful to anyone that has used both.

If you are talking about iNAP, you should know that iNAP is a different complex than NAP, it's not simply an arbitrary alcohol solvent, the isopropyl is complexing in to form a new explosive. There are ways to drop out the isopropyl and the complex recomposes to NAP. It is also possible to make standard NAP and not iNAP in IPA depending on how the reaction is run. It's a different primary explosive material. It has different behaviors and requires larger masses for firing than NAP. uNAP is very similar in performance to Ag(NTz) and Pb(NATz)2, nearly indistinguishable. I have been able to get one and two millimeter perforations in foil with Pb(NATz)2 but for uNAP the smallest holes I can achieve are perhaps 4 or 5 mm. We are talking detonations of material masses the size of a grain or two of table salt.

In my testing of standard inefficient detonators, ie. a metal cap with a single high-density base charge (RDX or ETN) with an iNAP prime, I found < 25 mg gave erratic transfer of detonation, depending on the secondary density. NAP is different than iNAP and uNAP in performance. All of them can transfer detonation at a few mg in low density secondaries.

Hopefully that answers the question. It's really a matter that has to be worked out by each user. I cant give a straight forward answer because the issue is just too big.
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[*] posted on 26-5-2024 at 22:20


That is a very good explanation. I guess I assumed its initiating ability to be less than azides. However it seems to have issues with density of secondary and ddt. Azides seems to not be affected by secondary density.( Inap) is very amazing , but may show weakness on high density secondary.( .2g of primary should have no prob getting det train going.
The I-nap was the material referring to in the question. It’s quantity and density as well as the densities of the secondary (2 densities to base, 1=max density ,and one 1/2 that density )with prime pressed less than that density. Ematch ignition.
What amounts of primary and pressure is needed for reliable ddt.? Not fun to find pellets of secondary after testing. .2 g primary in .5 base PE.

[Edited on 27-5-2024 by pjig]
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[*] posted on 27-5-2024 at 11:33


Quote: Originally posted by pjig  
That is a very good explanation. I guess I assumed its initiating ability to be less than azides. However it seems to have issues with density of secondary and ddt. Azides seems to not be affected by secondary density.( Inap) is very amazing , but may show weakness on high density secondary.( .2g of primary should have no prob getting det train going.
The I-nap was the material referring to in the question. It’s quantity and density as well as the densities of the secondary (2 densities to base, 1=max density ,and one 1/2 that density )with prime pressed less than that density. Ematch ignition.
What amounts of primary and pressure is needed for reliable ddt.? Not fun to find pellets of secondary after testing. .2 g primary in .5 base PE.

[Edited on 27-5-2024 by pjig]


Ok I understand now. Just to be clear, .2 g is 200 mg. At 200 mg, all three materials are really powerful in detonation. There will be no problem initiating anything at that quantity. For iNAP, at 25 mg, it has trouble in loose configuration on a 3.5 mm fuze spit, against ETN and RDX pressed to near max densities. Ematch gives a much better firing than fuze, but I havent tested with .5 g base charge. I usually use around 800 mg for a base charge. I stopped testing it after I realized that it wasnt possible to compare my findings to compararable literature because of the unknown densities and configurations used. I have read about detonator designs using different densities for a base charge, but I didnt comprehend just how insensitive the secondaries were at max densities. I can test the configuration you are asking about and let you know the result.
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[*] posted on 27-5-2024 at 20:35


Excellent. Yes curious about density and design to maximize efficiency of a I-nap det sys
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[*] posted on 28-5-2024 at 21:03


It seems that there may be something to the pressing pressures / densities….. it seems that PE can Be pressed to density that I-nap needs more weight to ddt that secondary. As you said .2 gm should be way overkill to ddt lower density PE . 50% success with secondary pellet recovered isnt good. Hand packed pressures get complete ddt. There is obviously something being overlooked or missed. Could moisture in secondary being not 100% perfectly dry contribute to a sleepy base? Aluminum tube not enough confinement…?Azides never struggled to ddt standard densities for commercial requirements .



[Edited on 29-5-2024 by pjig]

[Edited on 29-5-2024 by pjig]
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[*] posted on 29-5-2024 at 12:44


Quote: Originally posted by pjig  
It seems that there may be something to the pressing pressures / densities….. it seems that PE can Be pressed to density that I-nap needs more weight to ddt that secondary. As you said .2 gm should be way overkill to ddt lower density PE . 50% success with secondary pellet recovered isnt good. Hand packed pressures get complete ddt. There is obviously something being overlooked or missed. Could moisture in secondary being not 100% perfectly dry contribute to a sleepy base? Aluminum tube not enough confinement…?Azides never struggled to ddt standard densities for commercial requirements .

[Edited on 29-5-2024 by pjig]


Which document are you referencing with these minimum firing claims? Technology of the Inorganic Azide has a reference section for minimum quantities of DLA on standard secondaries. The minimum DLA is 30 mg. The firing configuration or density of secondary isn't listed. The minimum firing mass is AgN3 on PETN at 5 mg. For RDX the lowest masses are PVA LA and AgN3 at 25 mg. So 25 mg for iNAP isn't bad, it's inline with silver azide in an unknown condition test. My testing conditions are really basic, I'm not using a retainer cup at all or pressing primary explosive. It's just loose.

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[*] posted on 2-6-2024 at 07:45


Is it possible to prepare NAP from KClO4 in this way?:

NiSO4*6H2O+6NH3=>[Ni(NH3)6]SO4 (good soluble)
[Ni(NH3)6]SO4+2KClO4=>Ni(NH3)6(ClO4)2(bad soluble)+K2SO4
Ni(NH3)6(ClO4)2+2AGu*HClO4=>Ni(AGu)2(ClO4)2+2NH4ClO4+4NH3

[Edited on 2-6-2024 by Etanol]
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[*] posted on 2-6-2024 at 13:57


Quote: Originally posted by Etanol  
Is it possible to prepare NAP from KClO4 in this way?:

NiSO4*6H2O+6NH3=>[Ni(NH3)6]SO4 (good soluble)
[Ni(NH3)6]SO4+2KClO4=>Ni(NH3)6(ClO4)2(bad soluble)+K2SO4
Ni(NH3)6(ClO4)2+2AGu*HClO4=>Ni(AGu)2(ClO4)2+2NH4ClO4+4NH3

[Edited on 2-6-2024 by Etanol]


For the last reaction, it would need to be done under conditions that remove the ammonia and favour the formation of the NAP complex without destroying the NAP complex. I can't think what that would be.
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[*] posted on 3-6-2024 at 00:04


During the usual synthesis of NAP, the solution is boiled for about 5 minnutes. This would drive off ammonia and push the equilibrium towards the product side of things.

I added the nickel ions as the hexaammine nickel perchlorate complex when I first made NAP, though I didn't use KClO4 to make it.
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[*] posted on 9-6-2024 at 00:04


Quote: Originally posted by Etanol  

[Ni(NH3)6]SO4+2KClO4=>Ni(NH3)6(ClO4)2(bad soluble)+K2SO4

It does not work :(
[Ni(NH3)6]SO4 and KClO4 mix settles.

[Ni(NH3)6]SO4+2NH4ClO4 - yes

[Edited on 9-6-2024 by Etanol]
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