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Author: Subject: Education on Illicit substances
Pulverulescent
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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 03:28


Quote:
These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged.

Yes! Prohibition sees to it that the dangers of drugs are magnified to the point of lethality!
Drugs themselves are neutral ─ but prohibition kills people!
And the fucks perpetuating this murderous obscenity are acting in a criminal manner and should be fucking made to pay for the absolute shite they've foisted on society for nearly a century . . .
In a anyways decent society they'd be the ones doing hard-labour without parole!!!




"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 05:41


Quote: Originally posted by Organikum  
These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged. So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.
I don't really want to get dragged into a politicized argument, but I feel that I must play the role of devil's advocate here. I don't believe in what I'm saying:

From a certain perspective, these people are not contributing anything positive to society. Letting them rot is an effective way of removing them from society, and preventing their inferior genes from being passed on. If the drugs were to be legalized and 'clean' drugs supplied, they'd just be baked out of their minds 24/7 and would leach off society. Natural selection doesn't really work anymore, so this may be the next best thing.

What I really believe:
We should do everything we can to help these poor people—but I don't think that "legalize it" is the best solution. Laws are often necessary to protect us from others' stupidity.




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Pulverulescent
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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 06:05


Jeeez! That's about as ignorant a comment as is possible to make!
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Are you blind or comatose, or what???




"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 06:18


Care to elaborate and explain yourself, or would you like to just continue with the insults?



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Pyro
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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 06:26


UGH, franklyn that is DISGUSTING! YUCK! that put me off my food, but I guess that's my fault for watching it while eating :)

bfesser, those people can't be helped, it's too late for them. they should show this in schools, on television (as advertisments),... to warn people for whom it isn't too late

I believe legalize it is a good solution for many drugs, often the real damage is done by impurities that come from processing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZLiWWK_TYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETGDPlcE-NE
they use leaded gasoline and hardware store chemicals! not to mention how many times it gets mixed with other stuff before one buys it.
If some drugs were legalized, made industrially and sold free of contaminants it would be a lot better.
1)every country can tax them and make big profits, 2)people wouldn't poison themselves with contaminants, 3)it is possible to control how much gets used,...




all above information is intellectual property of Pyro. :D
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Pulverulescent
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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 06:37


Quote: Originally posted by bfesser  
Quote: Originally posted by Organikum  
These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged. So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.
I don't really want to get dragged into a politicized argument, but I feel that I must play the role of devil's advocate here. I don't believe in what I'm saying:

From a certain perspective, these people are not contributing anything positive to society. Letting them rot is an effective way of removing them from society, and preventing their inferior genes from being passed on. If the drugs were to be legalized and 'clean' drugs supplied, they'd just be baked out of their minds 24/7 and would leach off society. Natural selection doesn't really work anymore, so this may be the next best thing.

What I really believe:
We should do everything we can to help these poor people—but I don't think that "legalize it" is the best solution. Laws are often necessary to protect us from others' stupidity.

You write that foul excrement and I'm the one with explaining to do???
I mean, shite that's too low even for Pyro ─ WTF!!!





"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 06:45


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
Actually I see a lot of good coming from this bold initiative of ' better living through chemistry '. The sociological value of this wonder drug must not be overlooked. Such a mortality rate can well be the godsend to inner city crime and urban societal decay.
Do you believe in killing the poor in other ways, as well?

Your comment illustrates more acutely than most why I am regularly disgusted at you.
Quote: Originally posted by bfesser  
I must play the role of devil's advocate here.
A roll which, when played on the internet, is more commonly known by the term "troll", and which has evidently already been effective.
Quote: Originally posted by bfesser  
I don't really want to get dragged into a politicized argument [...]
Then don't reply. Really, it's a pretty basic concept.
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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 07:10


<strong>Pulverulescent</strong>, I just don't know which part you're angry about; the part where I was being cynical or the part where I was being honest?

<strong>watson.fawkes</strong>, fair enough. I don't plan to reply further, really. I just want to know what <strong>Pulverulescent</strong>'s so offended by.




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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 08:20


Quote:
What I really believe:
We should do everything we can to help these poor people&mdash;but I don't think that "legalize it" is the best solution. Laws are often necessary to protect us from others' stupidity.

That I should have to tell you is bad, by itself ─ you've expressed support for something that is an ongoing US State-sponsored criminal conspiracy/enterprise which has visited numerous countries around the globe with what amounts to the equivalent of an Holocaust!!!
Innocents butchered, lives ruined, families destroyed, trigger-happy-militarised police forces and the rise of the drug-cartels where low-lifes become billionaires overnight on the backs of ordinary working people ─ are the 'fruits' of this WOD you voice your support for!!!
And that you don't seem to know anything about the shit that's going down for so long makes you look the complete asshat!!!




"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 12:29


I'm a dyed in the wool Libertarian. I'm all for legalization of some drugs, but that being said, there ARE some drugs that should have never seen the light of day. Is prohibition working? Not in your wildest dreams.
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[*] posted on 28-9-2013 at 14:06


<strong>Pulverulescent</strong>, you're reading way too much into what I wrote&mdash;I generally don't make implications. Also, cut out the <em>argumentum ad hominem</em>, or you'll find your posts in Detritus.

I remember watching this documentary some time ago:
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/JsUH8llvTZo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[I'm done replying to this thread.]

[Edited on 29.9.13 by bfesser]




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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 04:34


Getting back a little more on topic. :)

Being raised in a family that accepts responsible use of illicit drugs, I have been given a respect and a bit of an education for this matter. Only last year I started to gain an interest in chemistry and since its made basic pharmacology and chemistry of drugs more interesting.
I think even without a slight academic interest, if people are educated instead of just being told that *** is illegal and is something to run away from, it will make lots of precautions that are in place arbitrary. If most drugs were treated sort of like tobacco is treated now ((deterred, but not illegal) maybe with a little less drama aswell) it would create a healthier culture.

Kind of rambling now. That's just what I got to can in, even though I probably know nothing of the matter; I haven't ever used drugs.




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Pulverulescent
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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 08:00


Quote:
I remember watching this documentary some time ago:

For entertainment? You obviously gave it scant thought . . .




"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

A Einstein
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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 09:21


<strong>Pulverulescent</strong>, I don't know what your problem is, but <em>back off</em>. Perhaps your reading comprehension is lacking, because you clearly don't understand what I've written. My suggestion: stop trying to tell others what to believe or what you think their views are.

[edit] By the way, I won't tolerate any more of this either:
Quote:
Ah, but just how do you react to being informed that you're an unthinking ignoramus?
Change your attitude, or expect to see a lot more of your posts land in Detritus.

[Edited on 29.9.13 by bfesser]




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biggrin.gif posted on 29-9-2013 at 10:03
Senator Feinstein Supports Pot and Cocaine!!


That's right! She is sponsoring a bill that would ban all those "diabolical synthetic drugs". We will still have pot, coke, a bunch of antibiotics and of course botox. Pfizer is not going to
like this!

https://www.drugfree.org/join-together/drugs/senator-feinste...
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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 10:30


In krokodil news: krokodil rears its head in Phoenix, AZ

http://boingboing.net/2013/09/27/krokodil-russias-rot-your-f...




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Chemosynthesis
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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 10:31


Wow, why all the hostility? I am not sure if it is appropriate for me to comment, but I don't see subjective, normative value statements as having any purpose in science, which should be dealing with objective measures. Pharmacology is an area of professional specialization for me, if that appeal to authority lends any credence to my view. We can all disagree on values, but shouldn't on data.
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Pulverulescent
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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 12:25


Quote:
By the way, I won't tolerate any more of this either:
Quote:
Ah, but just how do you react to being informed that you're an unthinking ignoramus?
Change your attitude, or expect to see a lot more of your posts land in Detritus.

Oh, all right ─ kid gloves back on . . .




"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

A Einstein
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[*] posted on 29-9-2013 at 22:20


Fast forward to time ~ 6:24
www.youtube.com/embed/JsUH8llvTZo

What is not evident in the evening news is that the cold war never really ended it just became privatised.

Before 1980 , Afghanistan produced 0 % of the world's opium. After the US / CIA backed Mujahideen won the Soviet / Afghan war , by 1986 they were producing 40 % of the worlds heroin supply. By 1999 , they were producing 80 % of the total market supply. Then something unanticipated happened. The Taliban took control of Afghanistan. By 2000 they had destroyed most of the poppy fields and opium production plummeted from 3000 + tons to perhaps 185 tons , 94 % reduction. On September 9th 2001 , the full plan for invasion of Afghanistan were reviewed by then President Bush. Two days later came the pretext for invasion when the world trade center was made rubble by Saudi militants. Today , opium production in US controlled Afghanistan , provides more than 90 % of the worlds heroin. The strict Muslim code of civil conduct precludes there can ever be the sort of societal decay depicted in neighboring Russia. So , for who is this heroin intended if it is not to undermine the Islamic nations trafficking it.

______________________________


But wait that's not all , order now and you also get
The Manchurian candidate ( oh , so you think I'm kidding )
www.youtube.com/embed/ToQ8PWYnu04

______________________________


@ watson.fawkes
You're disgusted with me ? Darwin award contenders as anyone else can either have lots of freedom as I always advocate or you can have none at all. Each has it's consequences which you conspicuously deny. For the flip side of licentiousness click on the ass of Miley Cyrus.





[Edited on 30-9-2013 by franklyn]
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[*] posted on 15-10-2013 at 23:02
They're , here . . .


http://video.foxnews.com/v/2735137795001/flesh-eating-krokod...
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Pulverulescent
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[*] posted on 16-10-2013 at 06:42


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2735137795001/flesh-eating-krokod...

Yeah, prohibition kills people in so many different and creative ways!




"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

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[*] posted on 20-10-2013 at 10:48


If the information on illicit material can be used to bring down totalitarian governments than cannot follow the UN human rights code, then yes, it must be educated.
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[*] posted on 21-10-2013 at 02:42


Quote: Originally posted by bfesser  
Quote: Originally posted by Organikum  
These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged. So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.
I don't really want to get dragged into a politicized argument, but I feel that I must play the role of devil's advocate here. I don't believe in what I'm saying:

From a certain perspective, these people are not contributing anything positive to society. Letting them rot is an effective way of removing them from society, and preventing their inferior genes from being passed on. If the drugs were to be legalized and 'clean' drugs supplied, they'd just be baked out of their minds 24/7 and would leach off society. Natural selection doesn't really work anymore, so this may be the next best thing.

What I really believe:
We should do everything we can to help these poor people&mdash;but I don't think that "legalize it" is the best solution. Laws are often necessary to protect us from others' stupidity.

Of course drugusers contribute a lot of positive to society. You know youre argument is not valid, why make it? (I wont present the endless list of famous drugusers now, everybody knows).

What you also dont realize is that 90% of the drugusers are "normal" people, pillars of society, no shit. Half the code which runs the Internet was probably written on speed and its the better half for sure. Coffee? lol. Start dealing and you are in for some surprises regarding your customers. (I dont do this anymore btw.).

What you believe doesnt make much sense in any way. Its confused.
And please refrain from helping me (as in your world I classify as addict of course). The worst things in my life were caused by people with good intentions. People who get off by feeling helpful when they just help their own ego.

You should support legalisation! As some acid might help you with your alcohol problem.
There were good results before it was outlawed.

/ORG

PS: IIRC "Krokodil" was an OTC medication and the horrible pictures show what you get when you slam pills without extraction. Its the fillers. The stuff made by HI or hydrogenation is called "Braun" and was the traditional heroin replacement in the eastern block. Without such consequences.

[Edited on 21-10-2013 by Organikum]

[Edited on 21-10-2013 by Organikum]




Irgendwas is ja immer
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[*] posted on 21-10-2013 at 04:33


Quote: Originally posted by Organikum  

Of course drugusers contribute a lot of positive to society. You know youre argument is not valid, why make it? (I wont present the endless list of famous drugusers now, everybody knows).



Quote:

You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal fucking high on drugs. The Beatles were so fucking high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.


Bill Hicks


There is also this fairly controlled study amongst technical professionals

Quote:

[The volunteers] remained firm: LSD absolutely had helped them solve their complex, seemingly intractable problems. But here’s the clincher. After their 5HT2A neural receptors simmered down, they remained firm: LSD absolutely had helped them solve their complex, seemingly intractable problems. And the establishment agreed. The 26 men unleashed a slew of widely embraced innovations shortly after their LSD experiences, including a mathematical theorem for NOR gate circuits, a conceptual model of a photon, a linear electron accelerator beam-steering device, a new design for the vibratory microtome, a technical improvement of the magnetic tape recorder, blueprints for a private residency and an arts-and-crafts shopping plaza, and a space probe experiment designed to measure solar properties. Fadiman and his colleagues published these jaw-dropping results and closed shop.




Quote:

IIRC "Krokodil" was an OTC medication and the horrible pictures show what you get when you slam pills without extraction. Its the fillers. The stuff made by HI or hydrogenation is called "Braun" and was the traditional heroin replacement in the eastern block. Without such consequences.


Makes sense; it's certainly true of many clandestinely produced compounds that contaminants are as big a concern as the use of the substance in the first place. This would seem to be a natural consequence of prohibition, which forces drug cooks to use suboptimal techniques, as well as forcing the market population into such captivity and desperation that they will tolerate poor product.



Figure 1: Toxic ethanol, available OTC

Alcoholics not giving a shit

By comparison, Llicit substances are also often contaminated. A great deal of ethyl alcohol is intentionally spiked with toxic compounds as part of a taxation program. Presumably, this discourages rational, informed actors from drinking it. However, for addicts and the mentally ill who don't give a shit, and children and English-illiterate who don't know any better, this presents an active hazard to vulnerable segments of the population.

Tobacco is also contaminated with radionasties






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[*] posted on 21-10-2013 at 10:29


This chart (originally from Lancet, a respected medical journal) is very informative. Classifying cannabis and other hallucinogens as schedule 1 while heroine is schedule 2 and alcohol is legal makes no sense. I suspect the main reason pot has been so vilified is that the folks that sell alcohol don't want the competition. Replacing alcohol with pot would probably be better for society. Pot is a much better drug,
(low toxicity, no re-bound), but difficult to make money on.

Another interesting statistic is that there are more visits to the ER from complications of doctor prescribed prescription drugs than all the illegal drugs combined.





Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_(mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence).svg.png - 33kB
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