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Author: Subject: Education on Illicit substances
franklyn
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[*] posted on 4-10-2014 at 18:25


The 10 CRAZIEST Drugs You Never Knew Existed !
3.9 million views
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpviOnRXVkA

We enter into life naked and howling , covered with blood.
Who said the fun has to end there.
Stick a blasting cap into each ear and up each nostril , then
hit the mosh pit.


.
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IrC
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[*] posted on 7-10-2014 at 11:37


mayko "[The volunteers] remained firm: LSD absolutely had helped them solve their complex, seemingly intractable problems. "

I think I can provide further evidence. In the 70's after work friends would come by and play chess for hours. Having just learned a new game (to me at least) called cylindrical I was wanting to teach one of the best of them how to play it. Normally I beat him better than 70 percent of the time on a standard and a 3D (3 level) board if I was careful to make no mistakes. In cylindrical you hold the third dimension in your mind, played on a standard board where the board was rolled side to side into a mental cylinder. Especially hard with knights, diagonal moving pieces could take off one side and nail you on the other, and so on. Anyway I played him and lost on the first game, 2 more games as well he just beat me every time which really was pissing me off. The next day I stomped him as usual and then did likewise playing cylindrical again. I asked him how the hell he kept beating me in his first few games. He said he had taken a blotter of red dragon acid a while before he came by the day before, and as I was describing the game he said he could actually see the board as a cylinder. While I do not know if he was feeding me a line or if that was even possible I cannot deny he stomped my ass his very first three games and normally he only beat me when I was not really into focusing on the game. I always wondered could he really see the board as a cylinder. I do know from experience whether he was stoned or sober he never beat me any more often playing regular chess so I have always figured he really could see it as opposed to me trying to hold the cylinder in my head.

Was it possible he really saw it as he described?




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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roXefeller
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[*] posted on 7-10-2014 at 13:23


He saw the matrix?

'I know kung fu', 'show me'
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IrC
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[*] posted on 7-10-2014 at 14:58


In the 70's no one had heard about the matrix but kung foo was big on TV.




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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quantime
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[*] posted on 7-10-2014 at 23:55
psychonautics


This thread is very complicated and emotionally charged for me. There are horrible drugs out there for sure. Krokodile is the most foul drug I have ever seen. OMG!

But,

For example, 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine is an amazing molecule. Philip K. Dick poses the question "what is reality?" in his wonderful body of work. Honestly, what if we are in the matrix, and quantum behaviors are simulation pixels? Is reality disconnected from perception? If the answer seems obvious, ask a Stern–Gerlach machine. The question "what is reality" seems trite and entertaining at first, but then becomes very interesting and scary. Can a drug that influences perception also influence reality? Can a drug reveal new ways of processing information, of understanding math, or chess, or politics? My gut tells me the answer is yes. How can experiments test such hypothesis? I am damn curious. I want to learn what I can. To me these are subtle, yet important questions.

Our world is absurd. For real, it is illegal to think thoughts. Back to Orwell and 1984.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 00:48


Quote:
Was it possible he really saw it as he described?

Enhanced intuition?

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Chemosynthesis
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 02:18


I am surprised a thread initiated with so much unsubstantiated speculation and strong causal claims regarding mental health and human behavior with subtle political statements on divisive issues such as firearms and religion stuck around here so long, particularly due to the lack of chemistry in specific and applicability to the hobbyist in general.

Let's be frank here; we're discussing drugs. If you want a scientific education on a drug, there is a specialty for that, and it's pharmacology. Any substance can be toxic, whether it is a specific or non-specific toxicity, transient or permanent, chronic or acute. Safety pharmacology and toxicology are the fields for you if this is of genuine interest.

Unfortunately for some, this is not a field amenable to the hobbyist and likely never will be as it requires biological experimentation, and has extremely complex nuances in choice of assay and/or model organism (not to mention the regulations), and any attempt to extrapolate this data to clinical use without extremely expensive trials through multiple partnering hospitals, is dangerous. This selection/extrapolation is even an issue in the general peer reviewed literature, much to my chagrin, as the data may be valid but not of any clinical or marketable use, and misunderstood. Applying pre-clinical data to clinical use is a hypothesis, and applying any drug to an individual even post clinical trials is a statistically stronger hypothesis. Many internet posters on websites much lower in quality than here try to armchair the field, and it is sadly obvious and inadequate.

To be more specific, this is a thread on psychotropic substances, rather than peripherally targeted pharmaceuticals. Now you complicate the matter by involving sub-disciplines of neuropharmacology, neurotoxicology, and psychopharmacology. Then you have the original poster mentioning young adults (adolescents?) Pharmacology can vary substantially with demographic; the two best known examples of which are probably gender and age-related. A pregnant woman, the fetus, and the elderly do not get treated the same. Even racial disparity can affect metabolism through population genetics and SNPs, which impacts pharmacology.

No legitimate pharmacologist or neuroscientist would ever conflate a developing brain (infancy through puberty, at least) with a more mature adult brain. Both mechanistic and correlative data abound to separated the two on some level into grouped samples. Obviously where you choose your demarcations may impact your statistical analysis, and this is a huge deal in any biomedical science. This is why any decent institution hires statisticians. Not scientists with the requisite education on biostatistics, say a graduate certificate with their science graduate education-- fulltime statisticians, somewhere.

Pharmaceutical companies and government regulatory agencies raise questions of safety profiles on well-known drugs almost daily; for example, benzodiazepines, a nearly 60-year-old drug class at the time of posting, has been implicated in potential cognitive and immunological disorder of unknown duration with longterm use, both epidemiologically and with some mechanistic proposals. Anabolic steroids, an even older exogenous class by approximately twenty years, are still being investigated for mechanistic and epidemiological proposals of neuropsychiatric disorder and prostate cancer etiology or contraindication. These substaces are subject to stage IV post-marketing surveillance, high fidelity patient data, and comparative ease of research due to scheduling.

In contrast, if anyone is curious about internal mental states, that is the realm of cognitive psychology, which is subject to discussion on how scientific it even is, as much of the field is dedicated to debate on how one can be scientific with surrogate measures for such internal states (I have a friend who is a cognitive psychologist, and we have very strange discussions).

The problem with trying to quantify non-scientific terms such as harm is that metrics become very complicated, and can change with dose in non-monotonic ways. For example, data is always potentially questionable, but much pharmacoepidemiology has been done on addictive drugs by comparing estimates of use with emergency hospitalization, which can give very different normalized perspectives than raw mortality, with co-morbidity/incarceration, or even cost-to-consumer or estimates of cost-to-society (which I am sceptical about.)

Many arguments can be made about potential alterations of these numbers through legalization and quality control, or discounted based on tolerance dose-response curves and how functionally selective toxicities are. Without solid data and controls of dubious future applicability, they aren't science, despite the potential to be based on science, or even if a scientist discusses them.
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IrC
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 02:46


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
Was it possible he really saw it as he described?

Enhanced intuition?



"Print a word of it and I'll sue."

Damn that was funny.




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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Chemosynthesis
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 03:08


Quote: Originally posted by IrC  
"Print a word of it and I'll sue." Damn that was funny.
You might like Kary Mullis' autobiography, if you are unfamiliar. He thinks, among many things, his LSD use contributed to his development of PCR.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 04:29


Seeing a violin recital on tv in a multiplicity of dimensions?

Ah, the seventies . . . :o:D

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jock88
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 04:50


There was a study done (I believe) by someone or other on witch hunts and when they occurred etc etc.
They seem to coincide with bad wet harvests. It was believed that there was a greater prevalence of ergot growing on corn during these seasons (ergot grows on corn) which was inclined to but people slightly off there rockers and commence accusing others of all sorts of stuff like flying around on broomsticks or causing the bad weather in the first place.

You cannot beat a good mouthful of ergot and a spin on a broomstick.
Ah, the dark ages.........
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IrC
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 05:14


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Seeing a violin recital on tv in a multiplicity of dimensions?

Ah, the seventies . . . :o:D


Actually many didn't hear TV in the 70's. We all left it on with volume off and Led Zeppelin cranked on the stereo so loud neighbors kept calling the cops. It wasn't until boredom in the 90's watching syndicated reruns that I ever heard any of the 70's shows. I cannot remember anyone who actually heard TV unless it was too late to crank up the music. Which was why Carson was one of the few that people knew what his voice sounded like. Him and Serling. Honestly in the 90's I realized many shows were funnier when I didn't know what they were saying.






"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 8-10-2014 at 05:41


Quote:
You cannot beat a good mouthful of ergot and a spin on a broomstick.
Ah, the dark ages.........

Lol. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that owning a vagina heightened the 'broomstick experience' . . .

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jock88
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[*] posted on 9-10-2014 at 09:48


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
You cannot beat a good mouthful of ergot and a spin on a broomstick.
Ah, the dark ages.........

Lol. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that owning a vagina heightened the 'broomstick experience' . . .



All self respecting witches ride side saddle.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 9-10-2014 at 09:56


When they're not trippin'?

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jock88
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[*] posted on 9-10-2014 at 15:25



When flying through the air on a broomstick you are on a trip just like in a car going to the seaside.
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macckone
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[*] posted on 9-10-2014 at 21:32


Ergot prefers rye not corn.
And most of the witches I know prefer Harleys and mead.
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[*] posted on 9-10-2014 at 23:17
1984


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
1984, great book. Read it. The movie is kinda lame...


Awesome book , I devoured it. Speaking from past experience, being in a psychosis is not a fun time , everything you "know " to be true while in that state is usually complete ludicrous to someone in a normal state of mind. Stay away from anything that can put you at risk for mental disorders. I was in a psychotic state for nearly a year before my team of Drs figured out what drugs work with me.
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[*] posted on 10-10-2014 at 01:31


Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
Ergot prefers rye not corn.
And most of the witches I know prefer Harleys and mead.



The earth mothers I've meet were more pot heads than drinkers.:D
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