CrEaTiVePyroScience
Hazard to Self
Posts: 71
Registered: 14-4-2012
Location: Belguim
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explosive
|
|
Long time storage for high explosives.
So I am making an collection of (home synthezised) high explosives. I put them in a 2ml vial (only 0.2g of each explosive) and they are seperated in
small chambers of 2mm thick steel.
I have only stored so far the explosives which don't decompose that fast.
I can't store for example acetone peroxide in that vial because it will decompose , form larger crystals which are extremely sensitive. I was thinking
of storing the 0.2g of acetone peroxide under water but I don't think that that will be enough.
Does anyone got any idea where to store it under, maybe some kind of oil??
Remember: The explosive can become unusable, that isn't an issue because I DONT want to use the 0.2g sample anymore its just to observe it.
[Edited on 14-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
If you tell someone that a small sample of baking soda sealed in a vial is TATP will they disbelieve you, do you think?
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
TATP is not that sensitive and does not decompose so fast when neutralized properly. I have some old TATP in a container (probably around 5-6 months
old?) and I didn't notice any decomposition. Plus, larger crystals are not much more sensitive than the small ones. You can store 0.2g without a
problem.
Rest In Pieces!
|
|
|
CrEaTiVePyroScience
Hazard to Self
Posts: 71
Registered: 14-4-2012
Location: Belguim
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explosive
|
|
@hissingnooise, They will probably believe me but I am doing this for myself to just collect the explosives and lets say after a year look back. I
don't want to fool myself 
@Adas well wikipedia : "It evaporates 6.5% in 24 h at 14–18 °C. Openly at air at 25 °C has a loss by sublimation of 68.6% in 14 days.[12] Many
accidents resulted from the fact that acetone peroxide detonates due to its sublimation characteristics within fewer days by crystallization in the
range of the container cap, when opening the same. Keeping it wet stops the sublimation and can prevent this type of accident."
Note: I am not planning to ever re-open the bottle but would just suck if it would reform crystals on the lid of the container not making it able to
examine it. So ill store it under oil or water I guess unless someonelse has another solution?
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
It does not sublime so fast, especially in closed containers. Wikipedia is Wikipedia, experience is experience. You can feel safe about shitty 0.2
grams 
Rest In Pieces!
|
|
|
CrEaTiVePyroScience
Hazard to Self
Posts: 71
Registered: 14-4-2012
Location: Belguim
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explosive
|
|
Haha if you say so
Btw I would not underestimate 0.2g of acetone peroxide I had a 150mg accidental detonation and lost 20% hearing in my right ear , heared a beep for
two days
Ill just store it under water to be extra safe, I guess.
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
Not easy, as TATP floats on water. But TATP dissolved in toluene would never detonate, if this is okay for you.
Rest In Pieces!
|
|
|
Fossil
Hazard to Others
Posts: 131
Registered: 4-4-2012
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
TATP can be made to sink in water, although it is quite hard due to the fact it has a high surface tension.
I can also attest to Wikipedia's bullshitness. I once (foolishly) stored 8.4g in a container for a week in the open with little to no loss of TATP and
zero crystal formation on the lid.
|
|
|
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Explosives should never be stored against hard metal. If for some reason there is an accidental detonation, dangerous shrapnel will be created. Metal
shrapnel is typically much more dangerous than glass or plastic, as it will tear through insulation much more and is much more penetrative, due both
to its greater strength and higher density. Small quantities of explosives can be stored inside a metal containers, but only if there is a spacing
between the explosive and the metal container. Ideally, the plastic vials could be placed inside foam, that is then placed inside a metal box. Just a
small distance can make a very significant difference. Just be sure the vials are not immediately besides the metal.
Another safety procedure, for sensitive explosives, is to have a way to open the vial without having to put one's hands directly in contact with the
vial. Again, even a small distance can provide much protection in the even of an accidental detonation. Screwing off a lid can potentially mean
friction that could detonate organic peroxides. Use a plastic clamp with a rubber grip to open the vials, so that hands do not need to get more than
10 cm close, and be sure to wear thick protective goggles. Eyes are very vulnerable to shrapnel. Also consider a thick apron.
It is never a good idea to store more than 1g of any primary explosive, and this does not mean that 1 g is a safe quantity.
[Edited on 15-5-2012 by AndersHoveland]
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Why do you want to keep all those explosives, even in small amounts? Sounds very kewlish to me. I can imagine that if one vial decides to go BANG,
that all others join the first one in a rattling sound of pure joy  The biggest
chance of this happening is at the moment you open up your precious box and are greeted by zillions of little glass splinters from all exploding
little vials.
If I were you and you really want to keep something, then make photographs of the samples in the small vials (use the same vial for all pictures and
the same weight of each compound and use the same lighting conditions for each picture, such that you have a nice comparable set of pictures) and use
that as a remembrance of your synthesized compounds. I would not want to store the explosive chemicals themselves, just use them up in small-scale
experiments and don't keep them around. To make the value of your remembrance even higher, also add a nice detailed and reproducable description of
your process for making the compound. In this way you build up a nice library of knowledge for yourself and possibly for others as well.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I like Woelen idea the best.
But until you use them up, the next best way to store such items may be to place them in a freezer. Chemical reactivity, including decomposition with
age and sensitivity to denotation, hopefully is reduced. However, with loss of electricity, you are back to where you are now. Also, consider
carefully burying the small containers in their own little sand boxes. Or perhaps plastic water bottles filled with water plus some CaCl2 stored in a
cool (but not allowed to freeze) place. The size of the box/container may vary depending on the amount and power of the item placed there in.
You can now also have a proper size label so even you know what it is, and don't forget about the back warning label (one of those legal websites may
be able to help you with it) in at least two languages, or if you are a good artist also, something that looks like a big boom. And lastly, a good
child proof cap (works with most adults).
Good luck.
[Edited on 15-5-2012 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
CrEaTiVePyroScience
Hazard to Self
Posts: 71
Registered: 14-4-2012
Location: Belguim
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explosive
|
|
@Adas acetone peroxide does sink in water so that won't be a problem. Here I've uploaded a small video (in private) where you can see that it sinks.
The footage is recorded from about a year ago by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdD1xZcGgo4
@Woelen, good idea will consider it that
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
Yeah, it sinks, but it is much harder when the TATP is already dry.
Rest In Pieces!
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
