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Author: Subject: Copper salts, a cautionary tale.
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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 17:20


I should do alot of things but they rarely happen so seeing a doctor isn't on my todo list either.


I can't fully explain it but it has happened three times now and Im sure it has to do with the solution.

Moral of the story is don't let yourself believe ANY of your chemicals are benign because most are not. I am typing this with swollen knuckles as we speak which is a result of be feeling there was less danger then there really was.





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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 17:58


so I am not in any way licensed to give any medical advise... but doc's would prob do a skin scratch test to see what you are allergic to. if it is really just some copper. could you not dissolve a lill bit of pure copper in HCl and put a tiny dot of it on a portion of you skin to see if you indeed are allergic to it? might rule out copper as the culprit. that really sounds like nickel probs and like many have said it is quite common and Ni is used a lot in plated products.

this won't help you in any way other than perhaps a lill bit of ease of mind. if copper doesn't do it then it must be some other metal in there. could try wearing one of the items you are leaching and see if it gets all itchy.

or don't do it your call. but on another front, I eat a lot of vegies rich in antioxidants especially during and after dealing with heavy metals( and no, not WHILE working ). Ya I know it sounds all hippie like, and well to be honest the big beard and long hair do too, but try it. parsley in particular is good. this was the first web page that came up when I did a search for it take a look

http://nurturing-naturally.com/2012/04/12/foods-that-help-de...

all natural and ya don't have to worry 'bout the ole' liver falling off screaming :) at best it helps, at worst its good for you and you just don't like the taste. take care and feel better.
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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 18:48


Im not really showing any skin reaction hence the reason I didn't really consider it an allergy. Copper or Nickle should show patches on the skin and im getting nothing more then perhaps very mild dry skin more then likely from the acids and mussle and joint pain.




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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 18:50


Quote: Originally posted by violet sin  

or don't do it your call. but on another front, I eat a lot of vegies rich in antioxidants especially during and after dealing with heavy metals( and no, not WHILE working ).

Aren't antioxidants thought to have a positive health effect for neutralizing free radicals? How does that help with heavy metal poisoning?


Quote: Originally posted by violet sin  
http://nurturing-naturally.com/2012/04/12/foods-that-help-de...

all natural and ya don't have to worry 'bout the ole' liver falling off screaming :)

You know what's also natural? Botulinum toxin, palytoxin, maitotoxin, strychnine, morphine, and feces. For fuck's sake, this is a chemistry forum...

[Edited on 21-12-2012 by Lambda-Eyde]




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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 19:15


HEY -Lambda-Eyde - if you took the time to read ANYTHING about certain foods helping with heavy metal in your system... like maybe a fucking 30second search.... then you might know about the benefits. get off my back jerk. I was just offering some helpful advise. what doctors told me when I thought I may have had HM poisoning.

"You know what's also natural? Botulinum toxin, palytoxin, maitotoxin, strychnine, morphine, and feces. For fuck's sake, this is a chemistry forum..." seriously WTF?

I went to a REAL doctor, at a REAL hospital, and had REAL blood drawn for REAL blood tests... despite my joking about the long hair and beard, this had nothing to do with a "hippie" mind set. and like I said it couldn't hurt. I in no way said go eat 20#'s of raw parsley dirt and roots included. I did however suggest a simple non toxic and helpful addition to ones diet that might be useful in this situation. where are your manners man.
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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 19:46


He countered your statement with a statement of his own. A good thing would be to
a) answer his questions about the relationship between antioxidants and heavy metal poisoning, and
b) Find some rebuke, if any, to his statement about botulinum, morphine, etc.

A not-so-good thing would be to make a strawman argument. In no way did he suggest that any part of this discussion included eating "20#s (not sure what unit you were trying to convey here) of raw parsley dirt and roots included". Sure, antioxidants are a helpful addition to the diet for all sorts of reasons. Can we prove that helping with heavy-metal toxicity is one of them?




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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 19:51


Before this turns into a flame war I want to clarify a few things. The first part of my post was a honest question. What I learned during general chemistry (and some own studying) is that antioxidants trap free radicals in the body. I don't understand how that helps your body to get rid of heavy metals. I ask because I'm not a biology/medicine type of person and I have limited knowledge on the subject.

The second part of my post was a harsh comment. Because, as someone who is interested in chemistry, there are few things that annoy me more than when people use the label "natural" as a synonym for "harmless and good for you", and seeing this used on a chemistry forum pisses me off even more. I'm enraged when "alties" say that vaccines and chemotherapy is bad because they're man-made, but that eating apricot kernels to cure cancer is perfectly harmless because it's natural. It's a dangerous fallacy, and is in its core unscientific nonsense. As for the "seriously WTF?"-response, you should think again about my statement. The most toxic compounds known to man are perfectly natural, made in organisms by biosynthesis, but many vaccines and lifesaving anticancer drugs are either semi-synthetic or completely synthetic, made by men and women of science in laboratories. If you haven't understood it by now, I'm mostly just pissed at the way you use words. It might seem like an overreaction, but language is power.

Also, I'll have you know that I sport a mighty fine ponytail myself.




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[*] posted on 20-12-2012 at 21:48


fine I felt like I had been assualted for offering what a doctor told me... so sorry... and the more convincing(honest) : I guess this was a misunderstanding, and I'm sorry for snappin at ya.

but think about this. the link I posted was like I said, the FIRST to come up and had a lill bit of info in it as an incentive to look further. thats all. I mean the bit about all the toxic stuff being natural, when I was talking about a normal food item.. i didn't suggest some crazy root or bark of some exotic plant. it was a common ingredient in soups and as a garnish on many dishes. so you could imagine how I would not normally correlate my suggestion and feces or morphine. by the 20#'s of raw root. that was the only way I could see equating any of the things you mentioned with my suggestion. dirty, unwashed weeds eaten raw. logical assumption? I felt it was.

I thought that joking about the hippie thing seemed like some one had used that as a point of attack like I was a patchouli smelling wierdo... there are lots of them in this area. and it's usually not a good feeling to try and help, just to see that you were ridiculed.

as for your question: I read that it is supposed to bind to the heavy metals and aid in elimination via urine and feces.

they do a lot more but I am not about to do all the work. I read a lot of the links others post and thought it was common courtesy to look at them before shooting it down as hooey. I was just suggesting what a doctor had told me... when THEY came to the conclusion I likely had HM poisoning based on my neurological symptoms. I was told to take up a diet with a few things on it while waiting for the blood tests to come back. so it was a sound suggestion based on science there.

http://www.heavymetaldetox.net/Research%20Articles/Dr%20Diet...

"Natural Oral Agents

Cilantro (chinese parsley)

This kitchen herb is capable of mobilizing mercury, cadmium, lead and aluminum in both bones and the central nervous system. It is probably the only effective agent in mobilizing mercury stored in the inracellular space (attached to mitochondria, tubulin, liposomes etc) and in the nucleus of the cell (reversing DNA damage of mercury). Because cilantro mobilizes more toxins then it can carry out of the body, it may flood the connective tissue (where the nerves reside) with metals, that were previously stored in safer hiding places. This process is called re-toxification. It can easily be avoided by simultaneously giving an intestinal toxin-absorbing agent. A recent animal study demonstrated rapid removal of aluminum and lead from the brain and skeleton superior to any known other detox agent. Even while the animal was continuously poisoned with aluminum, the bone content of aluminum continued to drop during the observation
period significantly. "



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027434_cilantro_natural_detox.htm...


"Below, we're collected some important research on this remarkable ability of the cilantro herb."

there are many more. like I said it is as easy as typing in "parsley as a heavey metal detox" google, or simply looking at the link I posted. hey I am not trying to cause waves here, I like this forum a lot, most everyone is quite nice. I hope you can see things from my side here a bit. rock on with the pony tail :) I work on a construction crew so they don't care what your hair looks like. also its cold as hell on the coast here so the beard is awesome.


[Edited on 21-12-2012 by violet sin]
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[*] posted on 21-12-2012 at 05:00


I had a look at those websites and they are drivel.
No actual evidence is supplied.

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[*] posted on 21-12-2012 at 08:05


like i said, just some of the sites i found in a handfull of minutes to try and give some semblance of supportive evidence. I'm not about to spend my whole evening searching for a fully credited 100 % trustworthy site. do a lill poking around your self, that is your best bet to get a better understanding. I was told to do this by a healtcare professional in the local hospital. not by some accupunturist or raki healer.

and honestly it was just a helpfull suggestion i was passing on. I'm not wasting any more time trying to suggest some one research it them selves. I was curious so I read...

maybe this weekend I will look for a bit more scholarly refrenses for my sake, but for now i'm off to work and prob not gonna bother posting what I find in this thread. I'm sorry that the ones I posted didn't do anything for ya. I know science is based on skepticism such that many dont believe untill proven to them. but it is just as much built on curiosity and a search for knowledge. not just waiting for some one to drop it off to ya. not trying to diss any one just sayn. hope you all have a good friday.
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[*] posted on 21-12-2012 at 09:04


What you most likely need is an experienced chelation therapists (expensive) who routinely deal in treating heavy metal toxicity.

There are also over the counter dangerous therapies from your local health food store (like EDTA which I have taken to address blood pressure issues). However, if you decide to take this risky path, be very cautious as rapid precipitation of heavy metal from your blood can kill you by destroying your kidneys, hence my recommendation of a real chelation doctor.
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[*] posted on 21-12-2012 at 09:17


How can you say that he needs chelation therapy?
There's no reason to think that.
for a start, while he may have been exposed to some copper he hasn't got the symptoms of copper poisoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity

The point of saying that he goes to a doctor is so he can get a diagnosis before anyone suggests treatment.
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[*] posted on 21-12-2012 at 09:47


Believe me when I tell you that a chelation specials will test you before you are treated and demand more tests after each treatment and the consumption of large quantities of mineral and vitamins you must consume. Hence the sizable expense.

I also agree with those that suspect Cu is not the likely culprit. More likely Ni,..., but does not matter as chelation is the route to wellness in my opinion.

Now, I should warn you that there is an ongoing feud between heart and chelation specialists. The issue is the ability of chemicals (some amino acids in particular) to dissolve substances safely from your blood and the inside of your arties. Even small biased studies sponsored by heart doctors appear to support the power of chelation therapies which is, of course, a major assault on the profession of heart doctors itself.


[Edited on 22-12-2012 by AJKOER]
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[*] posted on 21-12-2012 at 14:26


for you, possible hepatoxicity. no one should eat hebby metd'als in large amounts, but you might have severe allergy. doesn't seem likely as to the simple nature of the molecule. be careful!
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[*] posted on 27-5-2013 at 13:12


Sorry for bumping this thread, but lately, when I platy French horn, I get greenish-grayish skin colorations on the finger that holds the bell of the instrument. Is this just some copper carbonate depositing or something else?



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[*] posted on 27-5-2013 at 18:54


When I work with Copper Sulfate, I can start to feel a bit sick. When boiling CuSO4 I use a respirator because the fumes make me have a bout of nausea for an hour or two. Sometimes I can wake up with a sore throat.

Name of the game is, be as careful as the circumstances allow, always; no matter what the chemical is you should always have protection.




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[*] posted on 28-5-2013 at 04:19


Quote: Originally posted by Eddygp  
Sorry for bumping this thread, but lately, when I platy French horn, I get greenish-grayish skin colorations on the finger that holds the bell of the instrument. Is this just some copper carbonate depositing or something else?

Yes. Copper is plentiful present in all types of horns. Copper also releases comparatively easily from metal, as salts. Up to the early 80s, I'd often have greenish stains on my fingers from the copper plated pant buttons they used in those days.

(Nickel is able to form some simirlarly coloured salts, but nickel forms salts far more difficult than copper.)
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[*] posted on 28-5-2013 at 08:21


copper salts cause hemolysis (your blood cells explode); in small doses, this will make you nauseous and dizzy. get out of the exposure area, and you should feel better after a few hours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemolysis
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[*] posted on 28-5-2013 at 15:48


Hmm, I'd guess you have the misfortune of corrosive sweat.

Some people have the "anti-Midas touch", presumably acidity (and maybe sulfur compounds) in your sweat which is corroding the metal.

You might be able to change your diet, perhaps avoiding sulfurous or flatulent foods (there might be more specific advice elsewhere, search about it), and see a change.

I would suggest wearing gloves. Skin contact with metal salts can cause irritation and sensitization. Probably some thin fabric gloves would suffice, enough to wick away moisture and keep your skin out of direct contact. If they still turn green, try something thicker or less breathable. (I don't simply suggest plastic (latex or otherwise) gloves, since they would be very sweaty and rather uncomfortable, no good for playing an instrument.)

Tim

[Edited on 5-28-2013 by 12AX7]




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