Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Homemade inks/Fountain pen enthusiasts?
Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 11:36
Homemade inks/Fountain pen enthusiasts?


I noticed in this thread that an individual on the forum is involved in ink making:

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=31...

I was just curious how many others are interested in this? I remember Littleghost mentioning iron gall inks as well.

Additionally, are any of the members here fountain pen users?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium
Administrator
********




Posts: 3802
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline

Mood: Triturated

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 14:45


I made a big bottle of iron gall ink (which I talk about a bit in that thread, too) but I don't have any fountain pens- just a ton of oak galls. :)
I ended up trying to write with it on a piece of paper using bit of copper wire as my writing implement, and that worked alright but was a little bit messy. Now it's still sitting on my desk, doing nothing.




Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 15:32


I have two fountain pens but I don't really use them.
I haven't made ink before.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zephyr
National Hazard
****




Posts: 341
Registered: 30-8-2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 15:36


Iron (II, III) hexacyanoferrate (II, III), or prussian blue, is a very nice dark blue ink which can be easily made in the lab. In the future I hope to synthesize martius yellow and eosin.



Sciencemadness Patches for sale! U2U me if you are interested.
http://imgur.com/a/QmpHn http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=62566&...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Etaoin Shrdlu
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Insufferable

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 17:40


I have made black walnut ink, and while I don't use fountain pens I still have a few dip pens around. My girlfriend has a glass one which she never uses. I wonder how well it would work with iron gall ink since it seems the acidity would no longer be a problem. I have tannic and gallic acids on hand so I may try to make some while I wait on my stuff from Elemental.

I've always secretly wanted to endorse a check or sign off on something with a dip pen just to see the reaction.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium
Administrator
********




Posts: 3802
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline

Mood: Triturated

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 19:05


Mine is a bit runny, and I think I still need to add more acacia gum to it. I'm not really sure though, since I don't really know what good ink is supposed to be like! It could be I'm just bad at writing with it and don't have the proper tools.



Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
BromicAcid
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3119
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Legitimate

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 21:15


Inks for fountain pens are just about like water. I use a fountain pen in my personal correspondences and have quite a few different colors of ink that I use. I have not tried to make my own but it is something that would be interesting to look into in the future.



Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 22:35


If anyone is interested in some invisible inks, I have two links on historical versions a bit more modern than lemon juice. Some of these will not be suited to fountain pen use due to pH or possible viscosity. There is even a challenge on a method used on eggs in the second link:

http://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2011/nr11-148.h...

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-04-29/how-one-author-came-wr...

And yes, something like Noodlers Blue Ghost is much more practical, archival quality, fountain pen friendly, etc., but that seems trade secret. It might be fun to see how analyzable such inks are to TLC.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DistractionGrating
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 68
Registered: 3-4-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: Precipitated

[*] posted on 3-12-2014 at 22:43


Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
I've always secretly wanted to endorse a check or sign off on something with a dip pen just to see the reaction.


I love this idea, but you had better have a signature with sufficient flourish to justify doing so!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fenir
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 68
Registered: 7-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-12-2014 at 16:47


I own four cheap fountain pens and a large quantity of dip pens. My iron gall ink was far too weak to use.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-12-2014 at 21:08


Interesting. Do you think boiling or evaporating it down would have helped?

Also, I noticed a new ink released by Noodlers this year (not affiliated, just a customer) called General of the Armies. It writes green when wet and dries into a cavalry blue. Makes me wonder what's in it. Reminds me of a bicinconchininic acid assay. Maybe I'll order some and see if there is any copper peaking in an IR one day.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fenir
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 68
Registered: 7-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-12-2014 at 15:44


I tried evaporating the ink but growth of mold forced me to stop. On the subject of colour changing inks, I have noticed many iron gall inks darken upon drying. I think it is a result of oxidation of ferrogallous compounds.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-12-2014 at 16:35


Had you acidified or, preferable for archival qualities, added any kind of preservative to the ink? I have seen alcohols suggested in concentrations around 10% total volume.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Etaoin Shrdlu
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Insufferable

[*] posted on 5-12-2014 at 17:05


Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis  
There is even a challenge on a method used on eggs in the second link:

That is fascinating. There are a plethora of sources out there describing the same basic procedure: make a solution of alum in vinegar, paint a message into the shell of an egg, let it dry, boil it, and a message will appear on the egg inside. A couple of them say to write on an unboiled egg.

There is a corresponding plethora of people saying they've tried and nothing happens. So I wonder, is this an elaborate joke, or maybe it's not really "alum" as in "potassium aluminum sulphate" that causes this effect, but some impurity? It is supposedly a centuries old method.

Quote: Originally posted by DistractionGrating  
Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
I've always secretly wanted to endorse a check or sign off on something with a dip pen just to see the reaction.


I love this idea, but you had better have a signature with sufficient flourish to justify doing so!

Oh, I do, I do.

EDIT: Curiouser and curiouser...

From a discussion on a magician's forum, the 'egg writing' idea appears to go back at least as far as the 16th century. Their posted excerpt from a book by Giambattista Della Porta:

Quote:
In his sixteenth book entitled "If Invisible Writing." ("Wherein are handled secret and undiscovered Notes."), he details a myriad of techniques used to accomplish what could be considered today as Steganography the art of hiding or disguising secret information. An excerpt from chapter four is reproduced below:

"How you may write in an Egg.

Because when prisons are shut, Eggs are not stopped by the Papal Inquisition, and no fraud is suspected to be in them, I will show you how letters may be writ on the upper shell and white of an Egg also. For example,

That letters may be seen upon the white.

Yellow, and better when the Egg is boiled. Boil an Egg hard and roll it in Wax, and engrave the letters on the Wax with an Iron point, that the marks may lie open. Put this Egg into Liquor with Alom and Galls powdered. Then put it into sharp Vinegar, and they will penetrate, and taking off the shells, you shall see them in the white of the Egg. Africanus teaches it thus. Grind Galls and Alom with Vinegar, till they be as thick as ink. With this write what you will on an Egg, and when the writing is dried in the Sun, put it into sharp Pickle. Dry it, boil it, and take off the shell, and you shall read the writing. I put it into Vinegar, and could do nothing of it. Perhaps, he means by Pickle, Capital Lees. The cause is this. The Eggshell' is porous, and has large holes, which is plain. For being set to the fire, it will sweat, and water will come forth. And looking at it against the light, it will show clear. So then, Vinegar being subtle, penetrates by the pores, and makes the shell tender. And when it is mingled with the Alom and Galls, it carries their substance with it, and makes them appear on the white. And when it is put into cold water, it is condensed, and comes to be hard as it was. But observe, it must not stay long in Vinegar. For that will eat off all the shell, and will leave the Egg bare, having nothing but a thin skin to cover it. And if you put that into cold water, the shell will not come again. If you will know,"

This is the first mention of phenolic acids I've seen in relation to this idea. I can't decide whether this makes it more believable, because clear solutions of gallic acid can be oxidized to something very dark, or less believable because if someone were to start an invisible writing hoax back then, or try to throw someone off the mark with unnecessary ingredients, they might just have thrown that in as a connection to iron gall ink.

[Edited on 12-6-2014 by Etaoin Shrdlu]
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top