Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3561
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
Buying methanol
I want to buy methanol for;
. spirit lamp .. cleaner than ethanol
(I have electrical heaters for distillation etc. but for small test tube experiments I don't have gas or a bunsen burner in my lab/shed)
. polar solvent for my chromatography columns (not used yet)
. general purpose solvent
. precursor for general syntheses
etc.
I can buy 1 litre for £7 which would probably last quite a while,
or for £46 I can buy 60 litres .... both advertised as 99.95% purity.
I think that I understand the fire risk in general but I've never seen,
and do not want to see, the effect of 60 litres on fire !
Is 3x 20 litres of methanol a stupidly large quantity to keep in my lab/shed ?
P.S. if I do buy 60 litres and find that it is several lifetimes worth,
would it be useful added to petrol or diesel fuel for automotive use?
[Edited on 3-6-2015 by Sulaiman]
|
|
|
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Buy the 60 liters if you have the storage space for it.
|
|
|
szuko03
Hazard to Others
Posts: 188
Registered: 3-4-2015
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I would basically look at it this way, please keep large amounts of ethanol on hand, places like bars even some houses have several gallons of ethanol
and it isnt much different from methanol in storage and safety. If public places like bars and pub can hold gallons of ethanol you can too!
Better safe then sorry sure but if you have the space for it you can do it with little issues. Just uhh dont smoke around the 60 liters containers or
something silly and you will be fine!
[Edited on 3-6-2015 by szuko03]
Chemistry is a natural drive, not an interest.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
60 liters is a lot of fuel - similar to keeping 3 ea 5-gallon cans of gasoline around. It wouldn't be for me.
I've been doing hobby chemistry for ~12 years now and probably haven't consumed 1 liter of methanol. But I use propane gas when I need a bunsen
burner.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2660
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You could throw a liter in every tank of gasoline if you needed. You would NOT want to add it to diesel fuel, unless you first react it with some
triglycerides to make biodiesel. See the thread on that elsewhere.
You can likely find someone to share the methanol purchase. It is a very useful chemical.
|
|
|
morganbw
National Hazard
Posts: 561
Registered: 23-11-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I am so pleased that I am able to by as much or as little as I need.
This is by country location, as bio fuel seems to open doors.
|
|
|
byko3y
National Hazard
Posts: 721
Registered: 16-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: dooM
|
|
Bought 3 liters, used 25 ml in 3 month. Buy stuff only when you know you will potentially use it, otherwise it will just occupy space.
Some people are obsessed by collecting things, and they never actually use them. For me it's a bad habbit. A lot of chemicals are sold much cheaper in
large quantities, especially if they are cheap.
£7 is a pretty expensive methanol for me, I bought mine for £2.5. You can sell 40-50 L of it to someone else, they might also need few liters for a
lower price.
|
|
|
binbin
Harmless
Posts: 24
Registered: 24-5-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by szuko03  | I would basically look at it this way, please keep large amounts of ethanol on hand, places like bars even some houses have several gallons of ethanol
and it isnt much different from methanol in storage and safety. If public places like bars and pub can hold gallons of ethanol you can too!
[Edited on 3-6-2015 by szuko03] |
They are mostly keeping 3%-6% ethanol (beer) with a mixture of acetone, methanol, ethyl acetate, and some other higher alcohols in large kegs.
Ethanol is not flammable at this concentration. You need to get ethanol above 30% or so, and still, it's a shitty fuel at this concentration too.
Whiskey is 40% ethanol, maybe some mixtures are 50%.. at this concentration they are flamable, however they are kept in small bottles. They are not
keeping 99.5% ethanol, which is extremely dangerous in large amounts. A spark can set that blazing very easily. A spark cannot set 40%-50% blazing..
as far as I've seen and tried before at parties.
You couldn't pay me enough to keep a jug of 20L of 99.5% methanol in my house. A few days ago, a few streets away, I just saw 3 houses go up in
flames in a matter of 20 minutes. 7 firetrucks. Fire is scary shit.
[Edited on 6-6-2015 by binbin]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3561
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I've decided to take the boring (safer) option and just get 1 litre.
I watched a couple of youtube videos of methanol fires ... invisible but terrifying.
Methanol is so volatile and has an autoignition temperature comparable to my soldering iron (on high) ... too risky for me.
Thanks to all for the advice.
|
|
|
szuko03
Hazard to Others
Posts: 188
Registered: 3-4-2015
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
We just have different views on solvents. Your right it is a fire hazard but I really only view fire hazards as "if you are safe and keep it in a safe
and fire resistant place you will be fine" its not like storing something unstable that can detonate or spontaneously ignite then again I am not
considering getting that much so you are right to be cautious. I was just trying to alleviate some of the fear in regards to flammability simply
because we do deal with flammable solvents regularly and I feel that safe handling should be enough to avoid issues.
That doesnt mean I would store enough for the entire forum at my residence.
Chemistry is a natural drive, not an interest.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3561
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
My Lab/shed is so small, with little ventilation, and in winter I use a radiant electric heater
(bright orange ... well above autoignition temperature of methanol)
less than ideal storage I realise now.
THE END
|
|
|
SimpleChemist-238
Hazard to Others
Posts: 147
Registered: 28-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chlorine Trifloride Flame Thrower
|
|
I buy methanol from the dollar store and if I need it to be very pure I distill it and dry it.
We are chemists , we bring light to the darkness. Knowledge to ignorant, excitement to the depressed and unknowing. we bring crops to broken fields
and water to the desert. Where there is fear we bring curiosity.
|
|
|
binbin
Harmless
Posts: 24
Registered: 24-5-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think the best way to store it would be in a jerry can, no? I guess you'd have to check to see if jerry can's will be attacked by the alcohol at
that percentage. I mean, if we store petrol in them, I'm sure methanol would be fine in terms of safety as long as the alcohol won't destroy it.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
