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Rynoaus
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Yes it was acetic anhydride on the warrant it says and this is funny: that on this day this person was UNLAWFULLY in possessed a relevant substance
namely Acetic Anhydride detail of warrant evidence or property that may be seized under warrant: acetic anhydride,citric acid crystals,baking soda,gas
top cooker and items used in the manufacture of illicit drugs computers and electronic devices order forms or receipts for acetic anhydride.
When I saw this I thought god my kitchen stove is gas are they really gonna rip that out and take it lol and most of it is contained in a normal
household. They took my phone cos they probably wanna see my texts and emails and shit but all I do is look at science stuff and I don't know or hang
around any criminals. So to my mind if they try to charge me with something when I was attempting to do something legitimate with it I'll be able to
fight it in court if I have too. But this is the attitude you could face the officer asked me why I would do chemistry for a hobby I told him
knowledge, knowledge of the world around us the universe and ourselves this he could not understand! When he asked if my experiment had the wanted
outcome could there be money in it to which I replied possibly then he thought he understood but money is not the reason knowledge is.
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diddi
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the police have to prove intent, which is why they have taken evidence that may potentially incriminate you. but as you say, you don't hang with the
wrong crowd, so I would not expect you will have any trouble (good luck). you will also find that acquisition of glassware will attract the police as
can be vouched for by several Australian SM members. as already discussed in this thread, ensure you have a paper trail showing your use of
potentially illegal materials and equipment.
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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j_sum1
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Makes sense, diddi. Evidence to analyse to establish intent.
Indeed, good luck. I'd be having a preliminary conversation with a lawyer because you don't want this kind of thing to drag on or become more awkward
due to something that you inadvertently said or did (or didn't do).
Sad that this situation arose. This is the first story of its kind that I have heard that did not pan out happily. It should have a happy ending but
the middle bit is crud.
This document (attached) has been posted before but is relevant and a good read. Sure enough, your AA is the first item in appendix one.
Attachment: end user declaration.pdf (242kB)
This file has been downloaded 368 times
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Rynoaus
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Quote: Originally posted by diddi  | | the police have to prove intent, which is why they have taken evidence that may potentially incriminate you. but as you say, you don't hang with the
wrong crowd, so I would not expect you will have any trouble (good luck). you will also find that acquisition of glassware will attract the police as
can be vouched for by several Australian SM members. as already discussed in this thread, ensure you have a paper trail showing your use of
potentially illegal materials and equipment. |
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/d/drugsm...
States 1 a person who unlawfully possesses a relevant substance commits a crime.
Maximum sentence 15 years
2 it is a defence to a charge of an offence against subsection 1 for a person to prove that the person has a reasonable excuse for possessing a
relevant substance or thing.
Have a look at the lists anything and everything is in there. Thanks for the good wishes. Maybe at best I'll get my AA at worst I may still get it but
it costs in court fees we'll see I'll keep everyone updated. I'm planning on telling the guy when I see him that I'm going to get proper glassware
set(I've always jury rigged something for my purposes) nothing to fancy or big but enough to further my experimentations and see what he says.cheers
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Rynoaus
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Thanks again also I should explain I bought on eBay green technologies they are really good actually. I probably should of tried to purchase in aus
and do the end user dec but I drive trucks interstate so I really only get weekends at home. It's really hard for the hobby chemist/scientist
,terrorist drugs and the deliberate dumbing down of the population will see a gentlemans pursuit outlawed.
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NedsHead
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I honestly would not want to be in your shoes mate and I would do as j_sum1 suggested and contact a lawyer to nip this in the bud before it's blown
out of proportion.
All the best
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diddi
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I point of difference with this case j_sum is that the trigger for the raid was chems and not glassware. hmmm. beware "unusual" imports from Onyx and
the like 
and a bit of encouragement. I know of au SM members who have been raided and have not had large quantities of banned chems confiscated, let alone
further action taken, so there is at least some room for the hobby chemist to practise their evil craft here. more good luck to you
[Edited on 14-3-2016 by diddi]
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Rynoaus
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Thanks again I hope it doesn't turn into a farce. I checked the TGA website before I purchased to make sure I didn't require an import licence or
permit. But if a person isn't intending on making drugs why really would they go looking into the drugs misuse act.
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diddi
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i tried to get the required documentation to import thallium. got directed from place to place until they could not decide what to recommend so they
gave up and said i did not fit into a category requiring licencing
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Rynoaus
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| Quote: Originally posted by diddi | | i tried to get the required documentation to import thallium. got directed from place to place until they could not decide what to recommend so they
gave up and said i did not fit into a category requiring licencing
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Seems pretty typical of the legislation it even leaves the people in charge wondering what's legal and what's not. I suppose the best thing as sum1
suggests is to get an ABN and get account but that then brings about the cost issue full distillation set from China half the price it is here. Ahh
groan scratch head
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Rynoaus
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Update. I had sent an email to customs stating that I wanted it for research and told them the process I was looking at. After the police came they
I'm told showed my email to two police chemists. One of them said don't believe me and the other said do believe he is legit. So they call me down to
the police station to give my phone and notebook back and the officer tells me that while they are not (generously) going to charge me but I cannot
have the chemicals they will not release them to a joe blo from the public and made me sign a waiver giving up ownership. He told me that AA can be
converted directly to heroin and I can't have it. So after some discussion I pressed him on the issue of glassware to which I got a fuck knows answer.
I also said we'll can I get acetyl chloride then it's not on the list and of course the answer was dunno. This is a link to the actual amounts and
what is relevant. https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/D/DrugsM...
Notice it doesn't even mention sizes for flasks anything could be a reaction vessel includind really a bucket!
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NedsHead
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the Australian Gov<sup>TM</sup> have been operating behind vague and undefined laws for a long time now, it's no better for us firearm
owners. I'm glad they didn't choose to make an example of you
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diddi
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yes you have had good luck, but from a more sceptical point of view, they clearly could not prove intent so they would not have been able to prosecute
anyway. again, good documentation and a paper trail has supported a home chemist. let that be a lesson to others.
glad that your hobby does not have to take place behind bars 
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Rynoaus
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Thanks. Yeah it kinda sucked in the fact that I live in a small city so the officer here only sent the email to customs that I had sent with a brief
description of what I was doing. But if they had actually copied my notebook and sent that to the chemists in B then they would've seen clearly what I
was getting at, the process, the thinking and notes behind it. As well as past experiments with detailed notes on the chemicals used amounts etc and
products as well as disposal (I try not to have a great deal of chems laying @ even though it in locked shed I have a child) so I can't understand why
they wouldn't have sent that but anyway it turned out a draw. It's a setback but that's life. I don't suppose acetyl chloride would work in the
cellulose reaction to acetate I'll have to look into that now. Cheers all
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woelen
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From acetyl chloride and anhydrous sodium acetate you can make acetic anhydride. This may be a route for you to get small quantities of acetic
anhydride, which you use up in experiments, so that you do not violate any laws by storing it.
Keep in mind though that acetyl chloride is a real nasty and long term storage of this is a pain in the ass. The only really satisfactory way is
ampouling it.
[Edited on 23-3-16 by woelen]
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Rynoaus
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Thanks I've thought about that I'm trying
To see if I can get it without a drama I'll see how that goes.
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Rynoaus
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Update I bought some glassware that I was assured came from within aus so that I could sign an end user Dec if needed etc well It mustn't have. had a
few cool experiments in mind. Any way three weeks after my initial raid they just came back this morning going on that I bought a condenser and then
went through my shed again asked if I had iodine which I don't and reckoned that some of the chemicals I had could make ice (a couple weeks ago it was
heroin)I politely told them that you could probably make anything from anything nearly so what does that prove then one of them ended up being ok
calling me a mad scientist lol I'm far from well versed in chemistry I feel. So they took my whole new glass kit to test it and to see if it conforms
with regulations? What regulations would they be I could only find info in drugs misuse act. This is really pissing me off I tell you I lost money
with the chemical and I bet they will say I can't have it and that I have to sign it over to them unreal they really are just thieves they can't prove
a thing but they still take stuff just because. Qld is a redneck hole but I was born here and have made my life here. End note I told cop I was
accused ten years ago of making drugs they had nothing because there was nothing nefarious that didn't stop them from writing an official letter
stating that was what I was doing gave it to real estate agent and got me kicked out. Then conseded weeks later that there was nothing in it. And now
this crap and he said is it really worth it? I said that's crap that attitude is it worth it to learn? Experiment? I said just come over and ask to
look in my shed as long as your not here looking for pot( yes I smoke on occasion) you are welcome to see what I am doing with chemistry to which he
replied well we may need to come to a compromise like that as I'm giving to end up with charges of shooting you if I have to come back here every
month over something you've ordered from china. Obviously supplier lied about where item was despatched from.
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j_sum1
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Crap!
So, what happened to the EUD you signed?
I would be asking further questions about this one. Did you record their badge numbers?
In this case they have obviously overstepped the mark and have not followed procedure. There should be some follow-up.
More discussion later -- gotta go.
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Rynoaus
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I know one of them by name but get their badge numbers there was a South African cop who was not too bad but he was the one who seem to know the most
about chemistry anyway thanks cheers talk soon
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Rynoaus
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oh and the end user agreement was never asked for in the end which I figured might just come with the invoice so that I could sign it and send it back
on a side note I got 24/ 40 an organic glassware set with a bunch of stuff couple of different condensers bits and pieces I figure 24/40 is pretty
much the same as 24/29 isn't it as the 24 is the constricting size for the flow rate if I'm on the right track I just figured with the larger conical
so that it might be a bit tougher at the joints
[Edited on 15-4-2016 by Rynoaus]
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j_sum1
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I use 24/40 and have a couple of 24/29 bits that fit with it.
I'm in QLD. We are probably quite close. Send a U2U if you want.
(At work at the moment so can't really chat.)
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Rynoaus
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Will do thanks
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Rynoaus
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on the topic of end user declarations does anyone know is the onus on the company to ask for one and provide one or is there also an expectation on
the purchaser as I can only find codes of practice that state that the provider must ask for an application to be filled out and then send it on to
the Commissioner of Police is the onus is on only the seller then I am wondering how in the news a poor guy in Townsville was found making tea tree
oil with a distillation set that he bought from China and they charge him with not providing an end user declaration somehow my set didn't even
arrived with a paper invoice but it said sometbi g about Sydney on the postal stamp on top I really have no idea where it came from now.
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NedsHead
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I believe if you are importing the glassware then the onus is on you to provide an EUD, only the Australian suppliers would be bound by law to require
an EUD before sale, and that may even vary from state to state, in any case I wouldnt just take their word for it, I would fill one out and submit it
myself, especially so if I lived in Queensland, horrible place
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Rynoaus
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OK so I was unable to find an easy way to quickly send a eud I don't even have a printer but as its sent to the commissioner of police I emailed his
office with details of what I wanted it for ametuer chemistry trying to prove out theory's I have and possible invention's I just listed the set I had
and swore that it would not be used to make illicit substances outlined the quandary with sellers location etc so its been sent within 12 days and if
they want more details they can ask the officers who took my stuff they know it all. Also the chemicals that really had the guy in a huff was hydrogen
peroxide and pottasium permanganate I asked him what do they do then he says you make iodine from them maybe he meant extract I'm not sure really the
brought out some afid killer and asked do I use that for anything but plants it has pottasium salts it says then asks if I have a root rot product
which I dont. I showed him glycerin for use with permanganate for survival kit as well as exp and explained that hydrogen peroxide was for the
sulfuric acid exp. So yeah pretty full on stuff.
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