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Elawr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 174
Registered: 4-6-2006
Location: Alabama
Member Is Offline
Mood: vitriolic
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we've got a problem...
You've probably noticed by now that some entity named "messagini", or something has breached forum security and launched some kind of spamming attack.
Check today's messages. Note the number of posts so far from this new member to our forum.
I am going to send U2U and alert Polverone.
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Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
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There probably should be some sort of anti-spammer
security measures implemented .....perhaps making
new member accounts " read only " for thirty days ,
or creating some sort of buffer that holds and delays
their messages being posted ....so that these DOS
attacks and spamming get stopped by the gatekeeper ,
who optionally may pour burning oil down upon the
spammers unworthy head 
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garage chemist
chemical wizard
Posts: 1803
Registered: 16-8-2004
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The new spammer today seems to be a Bot (e.g. not a person, but a program). We should add a picture verification for setting up a new account to
prevent bots from registering. Most other forums already have this.
We also need to do something against spammers which are not programs, like "gil" who keeps re-registering under different usernames.
Maybe more moderators?
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Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
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Aside from the spam and DOS sort of problem .....
Is it just me ? , or lately more and more hasn't there been
a fair bit of thinly disguised topics of the sort that
goes something to the effect :
It's so cool to make dope and blow shit up ....
so do you have any good recipes for making dope
and blowing shit up ? It's like I keep waiting
for somebody to post the question next should
they make shit and pound salt or have they got
it backwards the sequence they need to get where
they are going 
Maybe we need a subcategory in detritus
for douchebag effluent
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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I think the 30 day read only idea for new members is a good one.
And I concurr that this appears to be a bot rather than a malicious human.
And while it has the feel of a DOS attack it didn't actually deny anyone service, it made the Today's Post feature look like hell for a while and also
one and only one forum topic where all the posts went.
I'd vote no resoundingly to a visual hoop to jump through, just because I recently had to do just that on another forum to register (E&W) and it
took me forever. I have DR (Diabetic Retinopathy) and my contrast is all screwed up so those things are a hassle for me, and I hate being hassled just
so I can be distinguished from a bot.
As to the influx of druggies, well, as much as I hate the drugs, and I do, it is really hard to make a hard and fast pronouncement and say"This is
Good Chem and this is Bad Chem." Simply because it is too subjective. I do agree that if someone's chemistry is nonexistant and all they want is a
How To on meth cookery in 3EZ Lessons then they ought to get the boot. With prejudice. But same goes for a nonchemist who wants a quick dirty bomb
plan or a nonchemist who wants to know how to make VX in his attic. Or the newbie today who had us confused with a PC mart "What notebook should I buy
and what configuration?" Hey, go ask Jerry Pournelle.
And that's my two cents FWIW.
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YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
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I watched this troll from post one today, and it angered me (quite a bit actualy), as a long time Moderator on another forum, I`de have given my
Kingdom just for the Suspend User option
I`m actualy on here 24/7 (although invisible) and check in regularly for updates and interesting posts and/or threads, I respect this place and Hate
seeing it being shit on!
`nuff said.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
I think the 30 day read only idea for new members is a good one.
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Speaking from experience back in the heydays of the computer BBS, and acknowledging that changes may require non-trival software modifications :
Simple RO for that long tends to discourage actual new users. A fair number of people start posting because they have a question or comment,
discovering that it's a month before they can leave makes the place less than useful for them. Certainly has caused my to drop sites from my hot list.
Back in the old days there were spammers, but the "Christmas modem" was a worse problem. At time such as Christmas or the end or start of school,
teens would receive the gift of a new *1200 baud* modem or even a new computer. They would soon decend upon the BBSes, scattering messages nearly at
random.
One solution that seemed to work was instead of a full RO lock, new users were restricted on how many messages they could post in 24 hours. The better
implementations slowly opened that window based on a combination of how old the account was and how many 'open' message, not U2U type or those deleted
or twit-bitted, the user had left.
A new user that just lurked would have the window opened very slowly. One that left a non-offensive message or two per day would have the window
opened wider more quickly, twit-bitting might close the window although some sysops prefered to let such users continue to leave message that only
they would read.
Captcha style sign-up screening can help against fully automated attacks. But if there is a person who is out to harass the system, they can easily do
the original signup and then unlease the attack script.
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olmpiad
Harmless
Posts: 29
Registered: 2-6-2006
Location: this thing known as earth
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dandy
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"as a long time Moderator on another forum"
Would you be referring to SFN?
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
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Yeah I got online early this morning and deleted an entire page of those spam threads. Did not notice he was still doing it...was there many more?
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Fleaker
International Hazard
Posts: 1252
Registered: 19-6-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: nucleophilic
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Yeah he did about six pages worth.
Either another mod is needed, or a change in forum rules. Lately we just seem to be the victim of spammers and trolls...
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
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The picture verification would be best, but I am not sure if it is implementable.
There is little protection against someone who's using proxys as the IP varies, so IP bans are useless.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Levi
Hazard to Others
Posts: 196
Registered: 24-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I was reading the forum for about 2 weeks before I ever felt the need to register. If I had to wait an additional 30 days before being able post I'd
be pretty pissed. 1 week... maybe. 30 days? Ridiculous.
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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One of the other chemistry forums warns newbies that posting repetitive material (without doing a search first), asking for anything, or asking a
stupid question will get then booted out.
On that forum new members are made to feel decidedly unwelcome to post, they are explicitly told they should lurk for months and become familiar with
the material BEFORE posting anything, and that only then, and when they have something new and worthy to contribute, should they post.
All that is AFTER being made to jump through hoops to register, it took me two attempts to register, with numerous sub-attempts each time. First time,
after the system accepted me, the registration was suspended pending moderator approval. This was denied because they don't like Hushmail accounts.
But NOWHERE did they inform anyone of that in advance.
All this was highly annoying.
In the end I did get registered and now I use that place for source material, I do not post there, I post what I learn HERE instead.
Screw them, if they can't take a joke.
Don't turn this forum into anything like that one please.
Being on that forum is a lot like I imagine prison must be like. Rigid and draconian.
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YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
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| Quote: | Originally posted by olmpiad
"as a long time Moderator on another forum"
Would you be referring to SFN? |
I was indeed, but refrain from mentioning it by name too often as it seems like Advertising. and I think this place gets enough of that already.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
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What I like of sciencemadness is the ease at which you can register and the friendly attitude to new members (provided they are serious people and not
trolls or lazy make-my-homework types of persons). I would be really sad if sciencemadness became a place where people would be scared to post, being
afraid to get banned. Such an atmosphere would be highly contra-productive and would in the long run kill the forum.
On the other hand, I see the problem of trolls, spammers, etc. So, if possible, it would be good if the registration process contains some technical
hurdles, which can be overcome only by human intervention. An image-reading and matching mechanism can leave out automated bots/spammers, but they do
not leave out trolls.
One solution could be the mechanism, as used by Paypal. They let you use the server for a while, such that you get started quickly, but they ask you
to get validated if you want to use the service for a longer time and for more transactions. It would be nice if the forum software allows new users
posting 10 times or so, and then a moderator or otherwise assigned person can approve the user, or reject him. This would require more moderator
effort, but one could appoint a larger group of trusted members for this specific task, without the need to give them other moderator powers.
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YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
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a bit like our News fora, you may post, but it has to be approved by staff before it`s available for General viewing.
Nice Idea Woelen 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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We've got ANOTHER problem.
I just found, in the Inbox of the email account which is registered here, an email with subject line "Sciencemadness whackos" and addressed to Sauron.
Sener JohnSxyz@yahoo.com
He alludes to SM members being Al Quaeda, praises my "arguments" with them (what arguments?) and goes on to say that he has been repeatedly banned
from here everytime he registers (i.e. THIS IS THE TROLL!) and then he offers me three hyperlinks embedded in the email to something called
faithfreedom.com
Now my momma and poppa did not raise any kids stupid enough to click through on a link from an unknown sender, and most certainly not on one from a
suspected TROLL.
My point is: beware of emails from this guy or anyone you don't know and never ever click through.
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
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Actually, thats the 'other' troll. He has not been around for a while.
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not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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faithfreedom.com is a site set up in response to faithfreedon.org, an anti-muslim site. I've seen both brought up in online debates and flamewars,
both seem to be ligit in the sense they exist simple to further the viewpoints of one group or another of people.
I don't think that the link was included as a trap, but rather an attempt to involve people in squabbles elsewhere and possibly to spread them to here
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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A plague on both their houses. The point is, never click through unless you trust the senser implicitly or you are asking to enter cyber hell. A
come-hither from a troll is particularly suspect.
It would be most foolish to comply.
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
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If that's the "other" troll, then he predates my arrival, as I never encountered him.
He didn't write like a low grade moron, though. Lunatic, yes, moron, no.
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Ozone
International Hazard
Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Integrated
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I "lurked" around here for days before I was able to determine that this was not just another "mkn bmz n drgz" trainwreck. It took about 6 months
(where I learned all about the "other troll") before I felt alright with injecting my opinions, but that's just me.
I agree that this mess is counter-productive and must be stopped, but I am at a loss to offer a solution that would not be, ultimately (in and of
itself) counter-productive (be it by discouraging newcomers or frustrating the experienced).
I'm about to start calling the "war on terror" the war on trolls. The net result appears to be frighteningly similar .
Maybe upgrading more established users with some form of, say, stun-gun might work, viz. when user A sees this stuff happening, there is an option to
hault it (suspend user, 24 hr) until a moderator can pass official sanction. Unfortunately, we don't want to Taser the innocent just because they piss
us (as individuals) off. That last part is the fly in the ointment.
Whatever is done it must be done for the good of the community and whoever is involved must be held to keep it so.
@Sauron, oh yes, very lunatic (advanced Treponema, methinks)!
One for all,
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ozone
Unfortunately, we don't want to Taser the innocent just because they piss us (as individuals) off. That last part is the fly in the ointment.
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And that's one thing that's wrong with the attitude here: excessive cynicism where careful consideration is necessary in determining if a new poster
is a troll.
Tim
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YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
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the recent spate of trolling has been pretty self evident as to their intent, maybe 2 or 3 pages of spam but 6 of them is going a little too far
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 12AX7
And that's one thing that's wrong with the attitude here: excessive cynicism where careful consideration is necessary in determining if a new poster
is a troll. |
But if a poster is trolling then he is by definition a so called troll. What exactly is there to considerate?
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