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Author: Subject: Issues with Soxhlet set up
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[*] posted on 14-1-2018 at 21:04


I'm not saying anything about Soxhlet's original invention.

I'm just talking about a kind of Soxhlet design which was common back then ( !980s and before) but has since been so totally superseded by extractors with external siphons that they've plain disappeared. I really don't know when this form was developed either, so I don't know how long they were around.

I didn't recall what phenylethylamine he used to it make, but I thought it was something more exotic than mescaline.
I recall it was used to introduce the nitrostyrene into the LAH. (Schulgin was always trying to up his yield from LAH reductions. He tried all sorts of inert atmospheres, even helium. I believe he started to favor THF over ether for its greater solvent power.)

I also thought I recalled that the nitrostyrene in that reaction was somewhat gooey and insoluble, thus mandating the gradual extraction. But I read that long ago and it wasn't a matter of great interest to me so I really don't remember it all that well.

Anyway his description involved breaking the siphon off the thimble in the paper I read. I am pretty confident of that. Could there be more than one published account where he describes this?

I'll check. I'm sure it's in PIHKAL because that's the only Schulgin I've bothered to read.


But seriously, these suckers were the sole pattern sold by at least one US company (Aldrich?), and I don't recall seeing any ones back then similar to what everybody makes now.




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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 04:26


I dont know enough chem to get involved in the arguing. I do know the synth isnt Mescaline, the synth that shugin used this apparatus for was a solid dissolved in a liquid, it needed a solvent slowly added and warmed.

What SWIM describes is exactly what the thing i drew does. I based it on an old extractor i have seen, the extractor was used by someone i know (genuinely not me) to replicate some the recipes. The person in question should be easy to find online, they taught chemistry and they are now on holiday at HER MAJ's pleasure.

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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 13:39


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
I dont know enough chem to get involved in the arguing. I do know the synth isnt Mescaline, the synth that shugin used this apparatus for was a solid dissolved in a liquid, it needed a solvent slowly added and warmed.

What SWIM describes is exactly what the thing i drew does. I based it on an old extractor i have seen, the extractor was used by someone i know (genuinely not me) to replicate some the recipes. The person in question should be easy to find online, they taught chemistry and they are now on holiday at HER MAJ's pleasure.



Thanks for convincing me I'm not insane, NEMO-Chemistry. I looked far and wide on the internet for a picture of one of those. but no luck.

I was starting to think I had brought that thing with me from some parallel dimension and forgot about it.

As for the chem details, I was just trying to explain what I thought I recalled off the reference. It is not unlikely that I'm wrong on the details.
Tried looking through Schulgin last night, found 2 places where he does the soxhlet thing, but neither was the one with the explanation I thought I remembered.

I recall now that I have read a few of his papers in Jacs, or Nature or something like that, and those might differ from the reports in PIHKAL.




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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 16:04


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
I dont know enough chem to get involved in the arguing. I do know the synth isnt Mescaline, the synth that shugin used this apparatus for was a solid dissolved in a liquid, it needed a solvent slowly added and warmed.



I'm not trying to get involved in any arguing either, but if you take a look look at Shulgin's mescaline synth, you should be able to make a rational decision on whether or not this is that synth.

I think Eleusis is usually accurate but is often to be taken with a grain of salt (and Zwitterion is Eleusis' sock puppet, right?), but this is what he had to say about using a Soxhlet with LiAlH4 reductions: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/eleusis/zwit.2c...

He made a saturated solution of the nitrostyrene and added it in small portions to an almost-full Soxhlet, or at least he claimed he did.




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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 19:53


Nitrostyrenes of all kinds were reduced from the beginning of LAH by leaching out of Soxhlets; it's standard technique when solubility is this low. A little blockage in the drain tube just right can gum up the purge. EDIT: or pressure-equalized addition funnel.

[Edited on 16-1-2018 by S.C. Wack]




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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 22:03


Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
The actual answer, guys.

EDIT: Somebody posted here recently that they have a 1980s Aldrich, or Sigma, or some such catalogue.
That catalogue may be old enough to have old style Soxhlets listed in it.

[Edited on 14-1-2018 by SWIM]


Sadly, my 1988 Aldrich shows a Wheaton Soxhlet in the modern style.
But I have seen the old style extractors myself, long ago. Never used one.




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[*] posted on 15-1-2018 at 22:17


Been thinking about the conversion thing.

If you just drill or grind a hole in the bottom of the body of a modern Soxhlet, it will continuously drip through the hole and work like the Schulgin-mentioned modification did.

If the hole can be plugged up with an appropriate sized plug of something inert like teflon or glass it'll again function like a regular Soxhlet.

So a hole that takes a reasonably tight PTFE stopper would let the extractor do either job. The seal on the hole wouldn't need to be perfect, just good enough so leakage into the boiling flask was a small fraction of the total flow.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 04:29


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
I dont know enough chem to get involved in the arguing. I do know the synth isnt Mescaline, the synth that shugin used this apparatus for was a solid dissolved in a liquid, it needed a solvent slowly added and warmed.



I'm not trying to get involved in any arguing either, but if you take a look look at Shulgin's mescaline synth, you should be able to make a rational decision on whether or not this is that synth.

I think Eleusis is usually accurate but is often to be taken with a grain of salt (and Zwitterion is Eleusis' sock puppet, right?), but this is what he had to say about using a Soxhlet with LiAlH4 reductions: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/eleusis/zwit.2c...

He made a saturated solution of the nitrostyrene and added it in small portions to an almost-full Soxhlet, or at least he claimed he did.


The red herring is Phikal here, yes the mescaline thing mention what your talking about. I did double check, but the modification he did and used in this case wasnt in PHIKAL, i think it must have been a paper.

To explain how I know its not mescaline......

The person in question was a chem teacher, i knew them through a relation of theirs, at no point did i meet them in a teaching capacity.

But on a visit to the relation, i was taken to meet them and see the lab, being interested in chemistry who isnt going to go tour someones lab???

Like me the guy liked Cacti, except he specifically liked the stone type where i like them all. We spoke about the fact that in the UK everyone in power seems utterly oblivious to the fact, most garden centres sell the peyote cactus!!

Whats more most people in the UK have never heard of Mescaline, its not a major drug here. The guy however liked messing with the chemistry and Mescaline, so i know he extracted it directly from the cactus.

He would have no need to do the synth in Phikal in the way its done. What he showed me i didnt understand fully, it isnt meth but i would guess its a derivative. I do know its pretty dangerous, and from what I was told it isnt something you would take more than a couple of times.

The comment about arguing was aimed at the fact, i am so under qualified to even begin to say people are right or wrong, but this occasion I am 100% positive the soxhlet adaptation refers to what I drew.

Its just one those things that fix in your mind for no apparent reason, maybe it just impressed me how much time and effort, this clever teacher devoted to messing his head up.

He was a really nice guy, reminds me alot like some of you with his knowledge. Very likeable and willing to talk for hours about chemistry, as a side note he isnt that old (maybe mid-late 40's) but having seen my grandad with parkinsons, this guy has it for sure.

oh one last nugget
The Soxhlet thing came about because like me, he loved collecting odd old chem glass. I got loads of it I havnt a clue what it does!!

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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 05:00


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
I dont know enough chem to get involved in the arguing. I do know the synth isnt Mescaline, the synth that shugin used this apparatus for was a solid dissolved in a liquid, it needed a solvent slowly added and warmed.



I'm not trying to get involved in any arguing either, but if you take a look look at Shulgin's mescaline synth, you should be able to make a rational decision on whether or not this is that synth.

I think Eleusis is usually accurate but is often to be taken with a grain of salt (and Zwitterion is Eleusis' sock puppet, right?), but this is what he had to say about using a Soxhlet with LiAlH4 reductions: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/eleusis/zwit.2c...

He made a saturated solution of the nitrostyrene and added it in small portions to an almost-full Soxhlet, or at least he claimed he did.


The red herring is Phikal here, yes the mescaline thing mention what your talking about. I did double check, but the modification he did and used in this case wasnt in PHIKAL, i think it must have been a paper.

To explain how I know its not mescaline......

The person in question was a chem teacher, i knew them through a relation of theirs, at no point did i meet them in a teaching capacity.

But on a visit to the relation, i was taken to meet them and see the lab, being interested in chemistry who isnt going to go tour someones lab???

Like me the guy liked Cacti, except he specifically liked the stone type where i like them all. We spoke about the fact that in the UK everyone in power seems utterly oblivious to the fact, most garden centres sell the peyote cactus!!

Whats more most people in the UK have never heard of Mescaline, its not a major drug here. The guy however liked messing with the chemistry and Mescaline, so i know he extracted it directly from the cactus.

He would have no need to do the synth in Phikal in the way its done. What he showed me i didnt understand fully, it isnt meth but i would guess its a derivative. I do know its pretty dangerous, and from what I was told it isnt something you would take more than a couple of times.

The comment about arguing was aimed at the fact, i am so under qualified to even begin to say people are right or wrong, but this occasion I am 100% positive the soxhlet adaptation refers to what I drew.

Its just one those things that fix in your mind for no apparent reason, maybe it just impressed me how much time and effort, this clever teacher devoted to messing his head up.

He was a really nice guy, reminds me alot like some of you with his knowledge. Very likeable and willing to talk for hours about chemistry, as a side note he isnt that old (maybe mid-late 40's) but having seen my grandad with parkinsons, this guy has it for sure.

oh one last nugget
The Soxhlet thing came about because like me, he loved collecting odd old chem glass. I got loads of it I havnt a clue what it does!!



I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The wording of the OP's post appears to be lifted verbatim Shulgin's mescaline synthesis scaled at 50% with the name of the nitrostyrene removed. There are various reasons why I don't think the "modification" is the one you drew, but I'm not trying to beat a dead horse on this topic.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 06:02


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
I dont know enough chem to get involved in the arguing. I do know the synth isnt Mescaline, the synth that shugin used this apparatus for was a solid dissolved in a liquid, it needed a solvent slowly added and warmed.



I'm not trying to get involved in any arguing either, but if you take a look look at Shulgin's mescaline synth, you should be able to make a rational decision on whether or not this is that synth.

I think Eleusis is usually accurate but is often to be taken with a grain of salt (and Zwitterion is Eleusis' sock puppet, right?), but this is what he had to say about using a Soxhlet with LiAlH4 reductions: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/eleusis/zwit.2c...

He made a saturated solution of the nitrostyrene and added it in small portions to an almost-full Soxhlet, or at least he claimed he did.


The red herring is Phikal here, yes the mescaline thing mention what your talking about. I did double check, but the modification he did and used in this case wasnt in PHIKAL, i think it must have been a paper.

To explain how I know its not mescaline......

The person in question was a chem teacher, i knew them through a relation of theirs, at no point did i meet them in a teaching capacity.

But on a visit to the relation, i was taken to meet them and see the lab, being interested in chemistry who isnt going to go tour someones lab???

Like me the guy liked Cacti, except he specifically liked the stone type where i like them all. We spoke about the fact that in the UK everyone in power seems utterly oblivious to the fact, most garden centres sell the peyote cactus!!

Whats more most people in the UK have never heard of Mescaline, its not a major drug here. The guy however liked messing with the chemistry and Mescaline, so i know he extracted it directly from the cactus.

He would have no need to do the synth in Phikal in the way its done. What he showed me i didnt understand fully, it isnt meth but i would guess its a derivative. I do know its pretty dangerous, and from what I was told it isnt something you would take more than a couple of times.

The comment about arguing was aimed at the fact, i am so under qualified to even begin to say people are right or wrong, but this occasion I am 100% positive the soxhlet adaptation refers to what I drew.

Its just one those things that fix in your mind for no apparent reason, maybe it just impressed me how much time and effort, this clever teacher devoted to messing his head up.

He was a really nice guy, reminds me alot like some of you with his knowledge. Very likeable and willing to talk for hours about chemistry, as a side note he isnt that old (maybe mid-late 40's) but having seen my grandad with parkinsons, this guy has it for sure.

oh one last nugget
The Soxhlet thing came about because like me, he loved collecting odd old chem glass. I got loads of it I havnt a clue what it does!!



I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The wording of the OP's post appears to be lifted verbatim Shulgin's mescaline synthesis scaled at 50% with the name of the nitrostyrene removed. There are various reasons why I don't think the "modification" is the one you drew, but I'm not trying to beat a dead horse on this topic.


Actually you do have a point.

I have a bias in this, in the UK Mescaline from this route would be insane, the cactus is so common and cheap why on earth would anyone go the route the OP wants?

But thats the UK, AFAIK few if anyone is bothered about Mescaline, i have never heard of it as a street drug here.

The cactus is cheap and common in garden centers. But other countries the opposite is true, unless the OP comes clean we wont ever know.

But i do agree its a perfect fit for Mescaline, its just to me this would be really stupid. Plus I am assuming the OP is being semi clever and heading down the more interesting substance route.

It isnt flogging a dead horse by a long way, i have enjoyed the reading and double checking, i have also learnt alot from it.

Ok its drug related, but chemistry is chemistry to me. Plus it isnt often i can contribute in a meaningful way :D.

Makes me wonder if i should a export business for cactus lol! JOKING
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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 11:28


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
[
He would have no need to do the synth in Phikal in the way its done. What he showed me i didnt understand fully, it isnt meth but i would guess its a derivative. I do know its pretty dangerous, and from what I was told it isnt something you would take more than a couple of times.


I just want to add that mescaline can’t really be considered a derivative of methamphetamine, under the implication that ‘derive’ means to get from A to B, only that it is structurally related as a substituted phenylethylamine. Firstly, methamphetamine has a geminal methyl group on the alpha carbon, there would be no way to remove this reliably in order to get to n-methylphenylethylamine. Secondly, it would be incredibly difficult to tack on the three methoxy groups, or to introduce three hydroxyl groups to react with a methylating agent (which would also react with the amine without sufficient protection); as R groups are ortho, para directing, I can’t see how you’d be able to add a substituent to the meta position (since mescaline is 2,3,4 methoxyphenylethylamine) without heavy modification to the base molecule which is far above my level of knowledge. As far as I know, it’s pretty much impossible to get from an amphetamine to a phenylethylamine without destroying the entire molecule and starting from benzene or toluene - most ‘easy’ syntheses of mescaline, what would be used for street production, would likely start with plant sources such as gallic acid or vanillin for example, where some or all of the aromatic substituents are already in place.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 11:53


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  


Whatever, dude. The only part that isn't continuous is the addition of the solvent to the flask below. I'm getting tired of your incessant and pointless questions, unionized.



The only part of this use of a Soxhlet that actually does what the synthesist wants is "the addition of the solvent to the flask below".

It's hardly "pointless" to explain that the bit of kit you use to do something has to be set up to do it properly.

(Incidentally, it wasn't a question, pointless or otherwise).
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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 13:17


You guys really write faster than i have the time to process all this.
Had i known your view on mescaline i would approach this whole topic differently.
Schulgins` mescaline synthesis is a solid inspiration here, yes, but definitely not a goal, I`ll explain later.

Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Been thinking about the conversion thing.
If you just drill or grind a hole in the bottom of the body of a modern Soxhlet, it will continuously drip through the hole and work like the Schulgin-mentioned modification did.
If the hole can be plugged up with an appropriate sized plug of something inert like teflon or glass it'll again function like a regular Soxhlet.
So a hole that takes a reasonably tight PTFE stopper would let the extractor do either job. The seal on the hole wouldn't need to be perfect, just good enough so leakage into the boiling flask was a small fraction of the total flow.


Interesting! With succesful drill i`d have my original soxhlet and a modified one if needed. I`m thinking of fusing your idea with NEMOs`.

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  


I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The wording of the OP's post appears to be lifted verbatim Shulgin's mescaline synthesis scaled at 50% with the name of the nitrostyrene removed. There are various reasons why I don't think the "modification" is the one you drew, but I'm not trying to beat a dead horse on this topic.


But thats the UK, AFAIK few if anyone is bothered about Mescaline, i have never heard of it as a street drug here.
But i do agree its a perfect fit for Mescaline, its just to me this would be really stupid. Plus I am assuming the OP is being semi clever and heading down the more interesting substance route.
It isnt flogging a dead horse by a long way, i have enjoyed the reading and double checking, i have also learnt alot from it.
Ok its drug related, but chemistry is chemistry to me. Plus it isnt often i can contribute in a meaningful way :D.

I honestly laughed at "semi clever" xD Yes, i`m trying to head down to more interesting routes (i hope) but mescaline is not one of them. And i hid the name of styrene, since it would be extremely straightforward for you. It`s 3,4,5-trimethoxystyrene.
I`m looking into trimethoprim direction - i hope the structure alone can defend me. If i seem shady it`s mainly due to my lack of confidence in organic chemistry, i know the chemicals i use are very close to some VERY interesting yet illicit substances and i do believe i have an research idea that is worth investing time and effort in. I don`t want to talk much about the idea alone as it is not that well researched (yet) by me but mainly i don`t know you guys and i have no idea which of you might have biotech education or business connections. Am i paranoid?

I basically got what i wanted here, but i don`t want to be THAT guy and disappear after the topic is over... I think i`ll stay, there is so much i can learn here - this forum is NEAT!

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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 13:31


Quote: Originally posted by A.Fleming  
Yes, i`m trying to head down to more interesting routes (i hope) but mescaline is not one of them. And i hid the name of styrene, since it would be extremely straightforward for you. It`s 3,4,5-trimethoxystyrene.


You know that reduction of 3,4,5-trimethoxy-beta-nitrostyrene will give you mescaline, right?
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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 14:00


Quote: Originally posted by A.Fleming  
You guys really write faster than i have the time to process all this.
Had i known your view on mescaline i would approach this whole topic differently.
Schulgins` mescaline synthesis is a solid inspiration here, yes, but definitely not a goal, I`ll explain later.

Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Been thinking about the conversion thing.
If you just drill or grind a hole in the bottom of the body of a modern Soxhlet, it will continuously drip through the hole and work like the Schulgin-mentioned modification did.
If the hole can be plugged up with an appropriate sized plug of something inert like teflon or glass it'll again function like a regular Soxhlet.
So a hole that takes a reasonably tight PTFE stopper would let the extractor do either job. The seal on the hole wouldn't need to be perfect, just good enough so leakage into the boiling flask was a small fraction of the total flow.


Interesting! With succesful drill i`d have my original soxhlet and a modified one if needed. I`m thinking of fusing your idea with NEMOs`.

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  


I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The wording of the OP's post appears to be lifted verbatim Shulgin's mescaline synthesis scaled at 50% with the name of the nitrostyrene removed. There are various reasons why I don't think the "modification" is the one you drew, but I'm not trying to beat a dead horse on this topic.


But thats the UK, AFAIK few if anyone is bothered about Mescaline, i have never heard of it as a street drug here.
But i do agree its a perfect fit for Mescaline, its just to me this would be really stupid. Plus I am assuming the OP is being semi clever and heading down the more interesting substance route.
It isnt flogging a dead horse by a long way, i have enjoyed the reading and double checking, i have also learnt alot from it.
Ok its drug related, but chemistry is chemistry to me. Plus it isnt often i can contribute in a meaningful way :D.

I honestly laughed at "semi clever" xD Yes, i`m trying to head down to more interesting routes (i hope) but mescaline is not one of them. And i hid the name of styrene, since it would be extremely straightforward for you. It`s 3,4,5-trimethoxystyrene.
I`m looking into trimethoprim direction - i hope the structure alone can defend me. If i seem shady it`s mainly due to my lack of confidence in organic chemistry, i know the chemicals i use are very close to some VERY interesting yet illicit substances and i do believe i have an research idea that is worth investing time and effort in. I don`t want to talk much about the idea alone as it is not that well researched (yet) by me but mainly i don`t know you guys and i have no idea which of you might have biotech education or business connections. Am i paranoid?

I basically got what i wanted here, but i don`t want to be THAT guy and disappear after the topic is over... I think i`ll stay, there is so much i can learn here - this forum is NEAT!



You should probably learn how to quote posts properly, especially if you want people to believe that you have a PhD and aren't synthesizing mescaline.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 16:06


Peyote cacti have been in high demand, for generations in the US.

Once upon a time, they grew large, wild, and free... in Mexico and the American South-West.

A decade or two ago, some folks reported to me, that this was no longer the case. Confronted with high demand, and slow growth cycle, the wild cacti had become quite rare.
And, the physical size of found samples, had devolved to...tiny.

So, freely available in commerce, in the UK? Surprised!
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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 16:50


Quote: Originally posted by zed  
Peyote cacti have been in high demand, for generations in the US.

Once upon a time, they grew large, wild, and free... in Mexico and the American South-West.

A decade or two ago, some folks reported to me, that this was no longer the case. Confronted with high demand, and slow growth cycle, the wild cacti had become quite rare.
And, the physical size of found samples, had devolved to...tiny.

So, freely available in commerce, in the UK? Surprised!
Now I got to go and double check!!!
I started collecting cacti before i can really remember, I was given my grandads collection after he died, apparently i would spend hours looking at them.

They have always fascinated me, but i havnt purchased any for around 4 years.

But certainly 4 years ago ANY garden center or even DIY super stores that sold plants, sold them. Mainly just labeled as stone cactus, but I would guess 70%+ of them were peyote, mostly in the 1.5-2 inch range.

Whats really funny, i used by loads of them, if you cut the main body off the root stock its a great grafting base for harder cactus! Whats annoying with them though, if you graft with them the bugger grow back on the side of the stump!

I am told a few long ago hippies in the UK used Mescaline, it was also used in psychiatric hospitals up until the 70's i think.
But apart from that......Zero interest in UK as far as I can tell.

LSD was the favored drug, according to my ex hippy mum. Who swears she never touched it, but her eyes twitch ;). From the descriptions i would of thought Mescaline would have been preferred, Also called the god drug??

I am also informed one the reasons it wasnt liked was awful nausea when taking it, but to me this would be down to piss poor isolation.

My interest inst drugs, but plants are a big interest, funny to think we got to reflux and mess about for hours, when a little cactus does it without fuss and a brain with no problem! Gotta love plants..

Yeah I am too trusting and assumed the OP was on the level, i wished i could remember the name of the other drug now. Now making that would of been clever!

Why dosnt anyone try and synth stuff like Kuri Kuri or however you spell it. I think vets use a derivative to this day as a anesthetic.
Or natural herbicides, jesus whats wrong with life people want to get out of it so badly??

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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 16:58


Quote: Originally posted by zed  
Peyote cacti have been in high demand, for generations in the US.

Once upon a time, they grew large, wild, and free... in Mexico and the American South-West.

A decade or two ago, some folks reported to me, that this was no longer the case. Confronted with high demand, and slow growth cycle, the wild cacti had become quite rare.
And, the physical size of found samples, had devolved to...tiny.

So, freely available in commerce, in the UK? Surprised!


I can understand your surprise, but I think 'the cactus' he was referring to was San Pedro or one of the other fast growing mescaline bearing cacti.
(Peruvianus, etc)

They can grow from a few inches to 6 feet in a few years, as opposed to the 50 or 75 years or something it takes peyotes to get to a decent size.
They get huge given enough time, and they grow in all kinds of weather and climate. Alkaloid levels can be much lower, but the poundage makes up for it to those who grow it for such purposes.

I've also heard and read of the scarcity of peyote today. Supposedly it's almost impossible to find large ones in the US now. Seems a lot of harvesters in the 60s and later didn't know to just cut the top off and leave the root to grow another, or even a cluster.

EDIT: I see NEMO wasn't talking about San Pedro or other columnar mescaline bearing cacti. My mistake.


[Edited on 17-1-2018 by SWIM]




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 18:08


I suspect that water-retaining substances in cacti make it hard to obtain dry samples for solvent extractions or to prepare aqueous extracts. It's not quite as simple as "Buy cacti. Chop up cacti in blender. Filter cactus juices. Basify. Extract with diethyl ether. Evaporate water to obtain freebase alkaloids." It's more like "Buy cacti. Dry sliced cacti in dessicator for two months. Mangle cactus pieces in mortar and pestle. Place cactus pieces in blender. Grind cacti to fine powder. Replace burned-out blender. Extract with dilute hydrochloric acid. Filter gelatinous mass through glass sinter under vacuum for several hours to obtain a few mL of gooey filtrate. Throw clogged glass sinter at the wall in frustration."

I have not personally tried this, but I am pretty sure that only professional research laboratories actually extract mescaline from cacti.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 19:08


Here they use those fruit dryer things for shrooms, they were legal to own and cultivate until a couple of years ago.
The law said you could pick them, keep them but not eat them!! Then after 50 years maybe more, they decided that perhaps just banning them would be best.......

Which reminds me, October I found my first ever false Morel in our wood! I really wanted to pick it and extract it, but dont fancy messing with it TBH. We do have a yellow mushroom that gives a strong dye like turmeric in colour, a really nice yellow.

Cant find it in my books, so no idea how dangerous it is. It dosnt smell that good though.

Oh and the San Pedro is pretty difficult to get here, you have to buy from a specialist nursery, and at least for me, they dont grow very well here.

[Edited on 17-1-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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[*] posted on 17-1-2018 at 07:02


Does the smell remind you of hospital disinfectant? I know that certain species like the Angel’s Bonnet produce iodoform which is a strong yellow similar to turmeric, and you are able to detect its presence by the smell of the mushroom alone.



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