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Author: Subject: can a diamond dissolve in acid ?
AussieChemist
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 05:40
can a diamond dissolve in acid ?


Ok recently i was doing some testing about the chemical resistance of diamond with various acids, something interesting happened when the diamond was placed in piranha solution. some black particles are "coming out" from the diamond, and fates away as the particles were dispersed into the solution and some bubbles were formed (CO2 MOST LIKELY) this was taken place near room temp. I actually did not think it was possible for diamonds to react at room temp. Does anyone have a theory why it happens?
this is a video of the reaction : https://youtu.be/dgQf8trgDGY

Screen Shot 2018-08-21 at 11.34.40 pm.png - 1.2MB
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walruslover69
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 06:03


Carbon and diamonds can be oxidized at room temperature. They just need a really strong oxidant. I reacted carbon with potassium peroxymonosulfate before at around 70C.
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Keras
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 06:07


Diamonds can burn, too. It’s the only gemstone that cannot withstand a fire. The fact that carbon forms a tetrahedral crystal does not passivate it.
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Herr Haber
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 08:16


Ahh, nice. I would have conducted this experiment in a few weeks.
Oh, I still might :)

My original idea was to burn a diamond in an oxygen rich flame from a propane torch.
Then I thought it'd be equally interesting to make one disappear in a liquid (Piranha was the first that came to mind).
And then I though about molten salts such as NH4NO3 or other oxydizers that'd only leave gas products.

With the miniature size of my (synthetic) diamonds I'll be able to perform a number of experiments so if you have ideas along the above lines, please do suggest !
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 08:21


maybe try pulverizing a diamond, mix it with potassium nitrate and sulphur and make diamond gun powder :D




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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 10:31


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
It’s the only gemstone that cannot withstand a fire. .

I'm not trusting you with my amber, pearls or opals.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 11:00


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
It’s the only gemstone that cannot withstand a fire. .

I'm not trusting you with my amber, pearls or opals.


Aren't amber and pearls classified as "semi-precious" stones?
As for opals, aren't opals basically "stained" quartz, like amethyst? That would made them pretty fireproof. As far as I remember, amethyst loses its purple tint around 450 °C as the iron inside changes state.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 11:33


opal is hydrated amorphous silica. It will give off its water and just turn to regular glass or silica when heated under a flame.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2018 at 12:07


Heated amethyst turns anywhere from yellow to a rich brown, depending on the starting saturation. This is often sold as 'citrine'. Turning this back to amethyst requires radiation to get the iron back into the 4+ state. Amber and pearls are semi-precious, organic materials - not gemstones.



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[*] posted on 22-8-2018 at 00:57


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Heated amethyst turns anywhere from yellow to a rich brown, depending on the starting saturation. This is often sold as 'citrine'. Turning this back to amethyst requires radiation to get the iron back into the 4+ state. Amber and pearls are semi-precious, organic materials - not gemstones.


Citrine, or fools' topaz.

Well, pearls are organic in origin but mineral in nature (aren't they made of carbonate?). It’s like limestone: it’s made up of bazillions of exoskeletons or shells, but no one would call it an organic material.
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[*] posted on 22-8-2018 at 09:22


Why not use cheaper uncut diamonds?



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[*] posted on 22-8-2018 at 10:19


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  


Well, pearls are organic in origin but mineral in nature (aren't they made of carbonate?). It’s like limestone: it’s made up of bazillions of exoskeletons or shells, but no one would call it an organic material.


So they are. I had thought they were technically an organic composite, in much the same way seashells are calcium carbonate platelets joined by flexible protein layers, but no - pearl is just microcrystalline calcite and aragonite. The more you know, I suppose.

Perhaps I should get around to testing my diamond element sample to see if it's real...




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[*] posted on 22-8-2018 at 10:47


Being semi-precious doesn't stop them being gems.
gem
dʒɛm/Submit
noun
1.
a precious or semi-precious stone, especially when cut and polished or engraved.
"a pagoda embellished with precious gems"
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[*] posted on 22-8-2018 at 10:52


Heating amethyst can also produce green prasiolite! Natural prasiolite almost entirely comes from one small mine in Brazil.

I've burned diamond before in one of my videos, although the setup was a little tricky. It's an awesome experiment if you have the chance to do it, not only because of the spectacle but because you're recreating the experiment that was the first to figure out what diamond is made of!

So how did your diamond fare in piranha? Did it measurably dissolve?
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[*] posted on 22-8-2018 at 15:46


Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
Heating amethyst can also produce green prasiolite! Natural prasiolite almost entirely comes from one small mine in Brazil.

I've burned diamond before in one of my videos, although the setup was a little tricky. It's an awesome experiment if you have the chance to do it, not only because of the spectacle but because you're recreating the experiment that was the first to figure out what diamond is made of!

So how did your diamond fare in piranha? Did it measurably dissolve?

@MrHomescienist
tbh I didn't realise that the diamond was reacting with the acid until I was editing the video. thus didn't get to measure the change in mass, well even if I did I doubt my scale is capable pick up such a small change, it would require a scale accurate to the 5th decimal. I posted a video of the reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgQf8trgDGY&t=66s
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[*] posted on 23-8-2018 at 00:22


Quote: Originally posted by zhonglanindustry  
What is inside piranha solution?


It’s a mix between concentrated sulfuric acid and concentrated hydrogen peroxide. It can oxidize about anything organic, so it is used as a last resort cleaner, especially for sintered glass funnels.
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[*] posted on 24-8-2018 at 09:31


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
Quote: Originally posted by zhonglanindustry  
What is inside piranha solution?


It’s a mix between concentrated sulfuric acid and concentrated hydrogen peroxide. It can oxidize about anything organic, so it is used as a last resort cleaner, especially for sintered glass funnels.



That's interesting. It sounds safer than my usual "go to" methods for cleaning dirty sintered glass (esp. with C) which were hot fuming HNO3 or Mn2O7.





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[*] posted on 24-8-2018 at 11:06


Manganese heptoxide? Yikes! Does it clean the frit by exploding it into pieces too small for dirt to stick to? :D

[Edited on 8-24-2018 by MrHomeScientist]
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[*] posted on 25-8-2018 at 01:11


Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Why not use cheaper uncut diamonds?

well uncut diamonds don't have the vibe.
it is not as expensive as you may think, this is not a high quality diamond anyway it is near the lower end of gem quality diamond.
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[*] posted on 8-10-2018 at 06:33


Here is a seemingly crazy electrochemical experiment!

If you believe that a diamond electrode could be damage in electrolysis setting, then possibly, in an electrochemical battery cell, the diamond may be at risk also.

I am unsure of the anodic index of pure carbon, which is very noble, but if you placed it in say a sea salt/H2O2 bath with say a more noble constructed carbon-based electrode (see http://www.chem.ualberta.ca/~mccreery/RLM%20publication%20PD... and heterogeneous vs. homogeneous carbon electrodes briefly discussed at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0003271070124212... and https://www.permelec.co.jp/en/products/pdf/Diamond.pdf and finally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_paste_electrode), it may corrode.

Diamond destroyed by galvanic corrosion, let me check my insurance policy. :(

On the bright side, you do now have Diamond Seltzer Water with a touch of Natural Sea Salt, which may be worth something.;)
------------------------------------------------

By the way I would avoid boiling your diamond in ferric citrate, ferric chloride or even Fe2O3. I believe a redox reaction is still unlikely on the surface of the diamond, but if yes, possible pitting,staining, discoloration,...

If you were experimenting with a more activated carbon, much more likely something would occur, but I am not totally sure if a diamond would always be completely unscaved. Source: 'Enhanced production of reactive oxidants by Fenton-like reactions in the presence of carbon materials'. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276120744_Enhanced_...

Now, that source basically says it does not know the mechanism by which the reduction of Fe3+ by carbon occurs. It may, in my speculation, be due to local surface defects on carbon producing an excess of electrons with the Fe3+ acting as a ready receptor. On the particular surface of a diamond, harder to envision such a process, but it may be worthy of a test.

[Edited on 8-10-2018 by AJKOER]
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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 06:34


Usually standard for cleaning (gem) diamonds in bulk is nitrosulfuric acid followed by HF to frost out CZs.



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[*] posted on 11-10-2018 at 07:44


Quote: Originally posted by Fleaker  
Usually standard for cleaning (gem) diamonds in bulk is nitrosulfuric acid followed by HF to frost out CZs.
CZ=cubic zirconia?



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