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Author: Subject: Your favorite primary?
MineMan
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[*] posted on 1-7-2019 at 22:41


Sound advice Rosco.

Agreed Wesson, probably not the stability for decades. But for amateur use 4 years is plenty. Keep up the great work Wesson.

I do have to say. We really need an EM with better stability and safety then ETN that is melt cast. I personally don’t like ETN. But s good solution none the less. I am more than intrigued. But would prefer straight NHN.
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wessonsmith
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[*] posted on 2-7-2019 at 04:41


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Sound advice Rosco.

Agreed Wesson, probably not the stability for decades. But for amateur use 4 years is plenty. Keep up the great work Wesson.

I do have to say. We really need an EM with better stability and safety then ETN that is melt cast. I personally don’t like ETN. But s good solution none the less. I am more than intrigued. But would prefer straight NHN.


You can use straight NHN without ETN. 900mg of NHN alone in steel tubing will set off RDX/TNT main demolition charge 700g.

"Even NHN alone (900 mg) was found effective in this
regard. This may be an outcome of built up of high
pressure due to higher strength of material of
construction of the detonator tube No. 10 than that of
detonator No. 27"

( p.680 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cj-XZd5EceagKZ7rZqdIH-4pSHu... )


[Edited on 3-7-2019 by wessonsmith]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 3-7-2019 at 12:47


What is the CE acronym mentioned in the article?
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wessonsmith
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[*] posted on 3-7-2019 at 13:00


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
What is the CE acronym mentioned in the article?


Yeah, I had to look that one up too:) CE refers to Tetryl. It's one of the synonyms for Tetryl.

Tetryl; (Trinitrophenyl)methylnitramine; CE; N-Methyl-N-picrylnitramine; N-Picryl-N-methylnitramine; Nitramine; Picrylmethylnitramine; Picrylnitromethylamine; Tetralit; Tetralite; Tetril; 2,4,6-Tetryl; Tétryl; Tetrile





[Edited on 3-7-2019 by wessonsmith]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 3-7-2019 at 14:46


Early patent references to NHN reported a larger than usual critical diameter for DDT of the compressed powder, something like 7-8 mm IIRC.

GB821586 attached to the linked post

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1778&a...

That may explain why the porous structure is required, as that generally tends to reduce the critical diameter. Glass microballoons like are used for thixotropic thickening and density lowering for casting resins and fiberglass work are sold at boating and marine supply stores. Mixing in a couple of percent of the glass microballoons could tune the completely fused at higher temperature composite so that it functions normally.

Nickel Semicarbazide Nitrate is also mentioned in the patent.

And while the perchlorate variant of the Nickel Hydrazine complex is infamous and notoriously dangerously sensitive

5 grams took off 3 fingers of a college student in Texas ....oops and uh oh on that maneuver

https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i34/Texas-Tech-Lessons.html

....there is no reference I have found about the Semicarbazide complex of Nickel Perchlorate...which could be worthwhile if it doesn't share the same instability as the hydrazine Nickel perchlorate complex.

Betaine perchlorate is another material worth investigation. It is energetic by itself and also capable of complexing metal perchlorates.....as is the same for glycine. Typically these would displace and partly or completely replace the ammonium from the ammonium complexed metallic salt in solution.

[Edited on 7/3/2019 by Rosco Bodine]
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wessonsmith
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[*] posted on 3-7-2019 at 15:31


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Early patent references to NHN reported a larger than usual critical diameter for DDT of the compressed powder, something like 9-10 mm IIRC. That may explain why the porous structure is required, as that generally tends to reduce the critical diameter. Glass microballoons like are used for thixotropic thickening and density lowering for casting resins and fiberglass work are sold at boating and marine supply stores. Mixing in a couple of percent of the glass microballoons could tune the completely fused at higher temperature composite so that it functions normally.

Nickel Semicarbazide Nitrate is also mentioned in the patent.

And while the perchlorate variant of the Nickel Hydrazine complex is infamous and notoriously dangerously sensitive

5 grams took off 3 fingers of a college student in Texas ....oops and uh oh on that maneuver

https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i34/Texas-Tech-Lessons.html

....there is no reference I have found about the Semicarbazide complex of Nickel Perchlorate...which could be worthwhile if it doesn't share the same instability as the hydrazine Nickel perchlorate complex.

Betaine perchlorate is another material worth investigation. It is energetic by itself and also capable of complexing metal perchlorates.....as is the same for glycine. Typically these would displace and partly or completely replace the ammonium from the ammonium complexed metallic salt in solution.

[Edited on 7/3/2019 by Rosco Bodine]


Interesting info, thanks. I can confirm my Dextrinated NHN by its self will detonate in 5.6mm internal diameter steel tubing. All my robust detonators have been based on that internal diameter for a few years now with great effect.

One thing NHN likes/needs is column height. It seems that there is a necessary minimum of height for the NHN to reliably make the DDT. In my case a column height of 6.5mm with 300mg of NHN for a density of 1.6g/cm3

I have heard of microballoons being used to increase the sensitivity of explosive compositions, in my case, this would not be helpful, my composition is sensitive enough.

I was able to detonate the non-heat treated binary composition using the method I described in the update, but when using just a Visco fuse on the non-heat treated composition it acts more like flash powder. It is mindblowing to me that I was able to find, through experimentation, the proper temperature and time of heat treatment for the cardboard firecracker tubes. I should note that even the much larger diameter cardboard tube 14.7mm internal diameter also detonates with the same temp and time.

Using plastic and steel tubing requires very different time and temp profile, which I haven't yet successfully figured out:( Obviously, the temp range is between 65C - 90C. Getting that temp and time though is the trick.




[Edited on 4-7-2019 by wessonsmith]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 4-7-2019 at 06:39


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Early patent references to NHN reported a larger than usual critical diameter for DDT of the compressed powder, something like 9-10 mm IIRC. That may explain why the porous structure is required, as that generally tends to reduce the critical diameter. Glass microballoons like are used for thixotropic thickening and density lowering for casting resins and fiberglass work are sold at boating and marine supply stores. Mixing in a couple of percent of the glass microballoons could tune the completely fused at higher temperature composite so that it functions normally.

Nickel Semicarbazide Nitrate is also mentioned in the patent.

And while the perchlorate variant of the Nickel Hydrazine complex is infamous and notoriously dangerously sensitive

5 grams took off 3 fingers of a college student in Texas ....oops and uh oh on that maneuver

https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i34/Texas-Tech-Lessons.html

....there is no reference I have found about the Semicarbazide complex of Nickel Perchlorate...which could be worthwhile if it doesn't share the same instability as the hydrazine Nickel perchlorate complex.

Betaine perchlorate is another material worth investigation. It is energetic by itself and also capable of complexing metal perchlorates.....as is the same for glycine. Typically these would displace and partly or completely replace the ammonium from the ammonium complexed metallic salt in solution.

[Edited on 7/3/2019 by Rosco Bodine][/rquote]


Interesting info, thanks. I can confirm my Dextrinated NHN by its self will detonate in 5.6mm internal diameter steel tubing. All my robust detonators have been based on that internal diameter for a few years now with great effect.


Dextrination or different crystal modifiers is generally used to reduce crystal size for more sensitive materials. Every detonator is a sort of integrated system firing train where the optimum efficiency can differ depending on what parameter is being optimized, for example there is a tradeoff between economy and performance and reliability / storage endurance [shelf life].

Quote:

One thing NHN likes/needs is column height. It seems that there is a necessary minimum of height for the NHN to reliably make the DDT. In my case a column height of 6.5mm with 300mg of NHN for a density of 1.6g/cm3


Runup distance for DDT is reduced, affected inversely by column diameter and strength of confinement, and where it is extreme there is used a progressive density loading in combination with the other factors....the idea being to facilitate the "cookoff" and get to high order detonation for a lowest practical mass. That kind of tuning and algebra applies to initiators that are not unequivocal initiators that simply high order without any special treatment seeking favorable conditions for DDT because the favorable conditions exist already in even a very tiny amount sometimes even in a single crystal of an unequivocal initiator.

Quote:

I have heard of microballoons being used to increase the sensitivity of explosive compositions, in my case, this would not be helpful, my composition is sensitive enough.


It isn't about sensitivity per se ...and a hard grit like solid glass or fine sand would be used to increase sensitivity. Empty spaces like bubbles are used to lower density and provide adiabatic heating to create micro "hot spots" and reduce critical diameter. Emulsions that have a critical diameter of 15 cm and require a booster to initiate can become cap sensitive at 1 cm when microbubbles are included. So density can cause an order of magnitude difference for 1 parameter that imports a second parameter in the bargain.

Quote:

I was able to detonate the non-heat treated binary composition using the method I described in the update, but when using just a Visco fuse on the non-heat treated composition it acts more like flash powder. It is mindblowing to me that I was able to find, through experimentation, the proper temperature and time of heat treatment for the cardboard firecracker tubes. I should note that even the much larger diameter cardboard tube 14.7mm internal diameter also detonates with the same temp and time.

Using plastic and steel tubing requires very different time and temp profile, which I haven't yet successfully figured out:( Obviously, the temp range is between 65C - 90C. Getting that temp and time though is the trick.


Strength of confinement difference will cause an increase in critical diameter for a plastic detonator capsule....it can easily double that parameter. I often use poly culture tubes for spot testing and that has been a general observation that for a detuned system being tested as a firing train it roughly doubles what is needed for a highly tuned and optimized configuration, and that follows for the entire device. If expediency is the more important parameter than economy and efficient use of minimum amounts of energetic material, simply doubling amounts or even tripling what would be needed in a tuned and optimized system will get the job done. :D

Blowing the hell out of something isn't likely to be a job ruined like putting too much salt in a pot of chili .....So it is generally just fine if there is a bigger crater where the kitchen used to be, than was the minimized hole in the ground intended ....Hey a bonus is provided for a better outcome than an inadequate performance that would leave one wanting ....and asking is that all you've got?

Had a couple of past dates go that way ....
and had to send 'em back to school.
Hey they will get it right eventually and
maybe come back to see me when they
know how the story goes. Hot little lynxes
are all welcome and God bless 'em all :D
but no cold and dominating feminazi bitches need apply. :P
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wessonsmith
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thumbup.gif posted on 4-7-2019 at 10:09
Thanks Rosco


I appreciate the detailed response.
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[*] posted on 7-7-2019 at 21:32


Look, guys, what I've found: https://miningandblasting.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/primar...



Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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[*] posted on 7-7-2019 at 22:18


Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar  
Look, guys, what I've found: https://miningandblasting.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/primar...

I've see it. I always wondered about the "milk booster". Sounds like casein nitrate of some sort.
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[*] posted on 8-7-2019 at 01:23


Quote: Originally posted by twelti  

I've see it. I always wondered about the "milk booster". Sounds like casein nitrate of some sort.


Maybe. But it is not what I would use. And Ag2C2. The typical CPOS- the Cheap Piece Of Shit. Weak and too sensitive. The double salt Ag2C2.AgNO3 is more powerful and less sensitive. And Cu2C2 is something beyond critic.




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wessonsmith
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[*] posted on 8-7-2019 at 04:16


Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar  
Look, guys, what I've found: https://miningandblasting.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/primar...


Ahh, the good ole days of HMTD and Acetone peroxide. :)

You can tell this was published in 1998. "The drawback to NITROMANNITE is that Mannose is not readily available." Before eBay, Amazon, and Alibaba:)
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[*] posted on 8-7-2019 at 07:49


I am thinking there must be some good primaries based on carbohydrazide...
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 13-9-2019 at 17:37


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
I am thinking there must be some good primaries based on carbohydrazide...


I think you are correct. I think it is also possible that the NCP can form compound salts like could happen for example if a solution of nickel perchlorate or copper perchlorate was gradually added to a solution of mixed carbohydrazide in solution along with glycine or betaine ...that the result might be a compound mixed salt having interesting properties. Copper perchlorate might function similarly.



Attachment: NCP India Patent.pdf (32kB)
This file has been downloaded 38 times

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[*] posted on 14-9-2019 at 13:08


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
I am thinking there must be some good primaries based on carbohydrazide...


I think you are correct. I think it is also possible that the NCP can form compound salts like could happen for example if a solution of nickel perchlorate or copper perchlorate was gradually added to a solution of mixed carbohydrazide in solution along with glycine or betaine ...that the result might be a compound mixed salt having interesting properties. Copper perchlorate might function similarly.



Nickel AminoGuanidine Perchlorate is simply made in a hot water solution... your suggesting the same can be made with carbohydrazide...

My recollection though is amminoguanidine is a more favorable molecule than carbohydrazide.....no?
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 14-9-2019 at 16:37


I have no information that compares the aminoguanidine complex to the carbohydrazide, so it is unknown what is better.

This topic goes back to 3 years ago when username who is tetrazole lover posted a bit for a short time at SM

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=68004&...

The formation of a monohydrate complex of Copper could possibly be avoided by the formation of a double salt between that glycine complex with another Copper complex perchlorate having aminoguanidine or carbohydrazide.

If the glycine complex which is cheap could be improved by appearing as the anhydrous form and combined with an even more energetic complex ...a very good synergistic material could result.

It looks favorable in terms of economy for the copper aminoguanidine perchlorate complex to be attempted to form a double or compound salt with copper glycine perchlorate, and if possible then the aminoguanidine complex should enhance and complement the copper glycine perchlorate to form a synergistic "mixed" composition, particularly if the water of monohydration is eliminated for the glycine complex portion of the compound salt.

[Edited on 9/15/2019 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 18-9-2019 at 23:11
But what do I know


The Democrat primary is sidesplitting. :D

.




Techniques to Disrupt, Deviate and Seize Control of an Internet Forum In case you wonder W T F ! is going on here ?
www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-10-28/cointelpro-techniques-dilution-misdirection-and-control-internet-forum www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/the-15-rules-of-internet-disinformation.html
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 21-9-2019 at 17:11


It's not break time until I say it's break time ......soooo...

It's BREAK TIME !

Enjoy....a departure from the mundane, this lovely offering of the sublime......
valued for exquisite good taste, a free sample of class and culture,
from Russia with love ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TODTjWWkiY

[Edited on 9/22/2019 by Rosco Bodine]
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