Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  ..  16    18    20  ..  30
Author: Subject: Moonshiners' 'Thumpers': Myth or Reality?
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:38


How dare you share that picture of my uncle!? I gave that to you with a confidentiality agreement!
And I doubt anyone is looking at his mouth.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Loptr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1348
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:38


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
I suspect Bloggers has done a side experiment, and doesn't want to share the data just yet.

I asked ...



That's popcorn sutton! He killed himself, IIRC, when the law came for his still.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/moonshiner-popcorn-s...

I was in Cocke county not too long ago on a vacation with the family. I didn't know that was the county he lived. (Vacation to Gatlinburg, Tn; whitewater rafting trip in Cocke county)

[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Loptr]

(EDIT)

Nvm. He lived in Parrotsville.

[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Loptr]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:50


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by deltaH  
Aga, if you get enrichment, can you please try two thumpers in series as well (if you have the glassware)?

If the data shows that it works, we probably will.

For the record, i'm just the pot boiling moonshine monkey, and the Science is all up to Bloggers.

Personally i can see that the original heated debate was all about a Thumper not being able to magically defy the laws of physics.

The Key point missed was that a Thumper introduces a Time factor to the distillate concentration, in that you should first get a Higher ethanol concentration in the Early distillate, which steadily decreases over the Time of the run.

Over an Entire run, until the last drop of ethanol is extracted, there is no difference at all, as thermodynamics et al predict correctly.

For the purposes of Drinking the stuff, Flavour is important (can't imagine why), so that would be a more important factor than the overall efficiency to moonshiners.



99% correct. The difference is you will get a higher ABV due to concentration (with a thump), and more volume / lower ABV (without a thump)




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:51


That's a shame. We should be protecting our moonshiners as a tourist attraction.



The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:54


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
We don't know for certain (either way) at this point, hence the Experiment.

The Data will tell us all more.

Personally i think that the boiling pot effectively transfers heat and most of it's ethanol into the thumper, which, due to the heat, boils, but starts boiling at a Higher ethanol concentration than the original boiling pot.

Higher starting ethanol conc = higher distillate conc.

Then, the boiling pot can only pour steam & heat into the thumper, which continues heating it, yet also dilutes it, lowering the Output EtOH concentration over Time.

That's My theory, and i'm sticking to it or i win/lose a fiver.

[Edited on 19-2-2015 by aga]



You are 100% correct.

What you still did not factor in is the BP of each. They start off equal, the thump BP gets lower as the ABV rises, and the pot gets hotter as ABV decreases.

Said it forty times... That is what makes this work, and insulation is not mandatory due to this shift.

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:56


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by deltaH  
Yup, 'dis er here is good alk-e-hol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svNwR6U6r7M


Aga, please get some billy dungarees. I'll send you the 'ABTT' cap ('Aga Blogfast Thumpy Team')! :D

"ABTT ROCKS!!!"

[Edited on 19-2-2015 by blogfast25]



You forgot the can of "Dip" (Chewin' Tobaccy)




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 15:59


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Zomb:

Conversion F to C:

T(°C) = (T(°F) - 32) × 5/9

http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/temperature/how-fahrenhei...


Or there's this...

http://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 16:03


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
BritBillies simply cannot spelly incorrectly, never mind sayz stuff like dang.

Deys dang fools, hot damn.

However one plays the Ukelale rather well.


Hotdigirrydoo? "It's a long way to Tipperary!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrAPOZxgzU

[Edited on 19-2-2015 by blogfast25]



I'll see ya and raise ya two...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDTQQWSmo8s




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 16:07


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
I suspect Bloggers has done a side experiment, and doesn't want to share the data just yet.

I asked ...




Thats' Popcorn Sutton. He actually has an amazing life story. It's worth looking up.

He committed suicide rather than do federal time for moonshining.
The man is estimated to have made 3 million dollars worth of liquor in his lifetime.

Here is the foot stone from his grave.

6a00d8341c625053ef011168fb9e34970c-800wi.png - 346kB




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 16:10


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Is that Bloggers, or the consultant he flew in from Appalacia?


Explain?

Britain is the NEW Appalachia! ;)

[Edited on 19-2-2015 by blogfast25]



You guys are all gonna do time fer moonshinin':cool:




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 16:53


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
I think heeen got a purty mouth, hot dang.


I loahst all my toothies by crackin' open them billy bottles of wheat beer with my mah cakehole, brov. Keep yer powder dry! I fought the Lhaw and the Lhaw lost...

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by blogfast25]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemrox
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2961
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline

Mood: LaGrangian

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 17:35


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
That's a shame. We should be protecting our moonshiners as a tourist attraction.

I thought we did? what about NASCAR? and "reality" TV?




"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:06


When in Nashville to attend a technical meeting I made a side trip to Lynchburg, TN and toured the Jack Daniels distillery. They use large distillation columns, bubble-cap plates IIRC, and activated self-made charcoal lumps to absorb the nasties. It's ironic that this is all located in a "dry" county. Therefore they couldn't provide us tourists with a sample of their famous sippin' whiskey. :(



The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:12


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
They use large distillation columns, bubble-cap plates IIRC, [...]


It don't swing if ain't got that thumpin' thing!

I got arrested in a dry county in Texas once (for 2 Bud Lights). Seriously! One night in the Drunk Tank (LOL) and $80 fine after pleading guilty.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemrox
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2961
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline

Mood: LaGrangian

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:15


I think you're all wrong about this-seriously-the thumper allows a takeoff for co-distilling water and byproducts that come off early. If you used a fractionating still you'd get almost pure ethanol/water 95%. With a gooseneck and thumper you get a liquor. The thumper keep the liquor from being "too flavorful." The stuff called fusel oil is made up of higher boiling alcohols. Higher boiling but not so high boiling they don't co-distill with the ethanol/water but a lot of them drop out just after the first bend in the copper. This is where the thumper collects them. I'm going to make one with glass and try it with different columns and straight still configurations.



"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:20


I can just picture that!!!

You know the first thing I noticed when we moved "down south".
Every gas station you pull into has a bath tub sized cooler full of ice, and beer. No lid to open, just reach in and grab a cold one right next to the checkout.

It's as if they are supplying the driving / influence, to driving under the influence.
It's a practice that I think should be banned down here. No ice cold sodas, They're in the cooler across the room. Just beer.




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:27


Quote: Originally posted by chemrox  
I think you're all wrong about this-seriously-the thumper allows a takeoff for co-distilling water and byproducts that come off early. If you used a fractionating still you'd get almost pure ethanol/water 95%. With a gooseneck and thumper you get a liquor. The thumper keep the liquor from being "too flavorful." The stuff called fusel oil is made up of higher boiling alcohols. Higher boiling but not so high boiling they don't co-distill with the ethanol/water but a lot of them drop out just after the first bend in the copper. This is where the thumper collects them. I'm going to make one with glass and try it with different columns and straight still configurations.



This is where a smart distiller will add flavors. In the Thump.
I think I mentioned it already... Apples, oranges, hell... Pumpkin Pie spice. You can modify the flavor profile at the same time as increasing the ABV.
For an inefficient tool it is actually very versatile. Add pure water to strip the flavor of a bad mash (lower abv as well), add white lightening to up the ABV of a weak mash, add flavors, or just up the proof of any old mash.

Them Billies done good in my book. but to qualify I still believe Fahrenheit is real;).

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:40


Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

Them Billies done good in my book. but to qualify I still believe Fahrenheit is real;).


It IS real, it's just not used in science. There are good reasons for that.

Fahrenheit was an excellent thermometer maker, for his time.


[Edited on 20-2-2015 by blogfast25]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 18:44


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

Them Billies done good in my book. but to qualify I still believe Fahrenheit is real;).


It IS real, it's just not used in science. There are good reasons for that.

Fahrenheit was an excellent thermometer maker, for his time.


[Edited on 20-2-2015 by blogfast25]



What are the reasons? Serious.

I get the 0*C= 32*F is an easier starting point but are there other reasons?




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 19:03


Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

What are the reasons? Serious.


Unification of measurement units. Facilitates trade. The SI system. F is now only used in a few countries and a few British die-hards.

The need to convert. Thermodynamics really only works with Kelvin. K = C + 273.15. Absolute zero is 0 K. Easier to convert from C to K than from F to K.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 19:10


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

What are the reasons? Serious.


Unification of measurement units. Facilitates trade. The SI system. F is now only used in a few countries and a few British die-hards.

The need to convert. Thermodynamics really only works with Kelvin. K = C + 273.15. Absolute zero is 0 K. Easier to convert from C to K than from F to K.


I can see that +32 ,5/9ths... Ill use the software.




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 19:19


Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

I can see that +32 ,5/9ths... Ill use the software.


How about a billy calculator?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=calcular+large&biw=109...

How hard can it be? Take number, subtract 32. Take result, multiply by five and divide by nine!


Doh!

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by blogfast25]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Luke
Harmless
*




Posts: 20
Registered: 25-9-2014
Location: Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 19:35


I just realised that a carter head gin basket is basically like a little thumper. My flatmate wanted to make some gin so we might use a thump design to do it on the cheap.

Will be made on neutral though, no corn based hillbilly gin for us!



Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
Quote: Originally posted by chemrox  
I think you're all wrong about this-seriously-the thumper allows a takeoff for co-distilling water and byproducts that come off early. If you used a fractionating still you'd get almost pure ethanol/water 95%. With a gooseneck and thumper you get a liquor. The thumper keep the liquor from being "too flavorful." The stuff called fusel oil is made up of higher boiling alcohols. Higher boiling but not so high boiling they don't co-distill with the ethanol/water but a lot of them drop out just after the first bend in the copper. This is where the thumper collects them. I'm going to make one with glass and try it with different columns and straight still configurations.



This is where a smart distiller will add flavors. In the Thump.
I think I mentioned it already... Apples, oranges, hell... Pumpkin Pie spice. You can modify the flavor profile at the same time as increasing the ABV.
For an inefficient tool it is actually very versatile. Add pure water to strip the flavor of a bad mash (lower abv as well), add white lightening to up the ABV of a weak mash, add flavors, or just up the proof of any old mash.

Them Billies done good in my book. but to qualify I still believe Fahrenheit is real;).

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]



Are you going to take a video aga?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 19:40


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

I can see that +32 ,5/9ths... Ill use the software.


How about a billy calculator?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=calcular+large&biw=109...

How hard can it be? Take number, subtract 32. Take result, multiply by five and divide by nine!


Doh!

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by blogfast25]



I had one of those, and I lost it somewhere. :(




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 19-2-2015 at 19:44


Quote: Originally posted by Luke  
I just realised that a carter head gin basket is basically like a little thumper. My flatmate wanted to make some gin so we might use a thump design to do it on the cheap.

Will be made on neutral though, no corn based hillbilly gin for us!



Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
Quote: Originally posted by chemrox  
I think you're all wrong about this-seriously-the thumper allows a takeoff for co-distilling water and byproducts that come off early. If you used a fractionating still you'd get almost pure ethanol/water 95%. With a gooseneck and thumper you get a liquor. The thumper keep the liquor from being "too flavorful." The stuff called fusel oil is made up of higher boiling alcohols. Higher boiling but not so high boiling they don't co-distill with the ethanol/water but a lot of them drop out just after the first bend in the copper. This is where the thumper collects them. I'm going to make one with glass and try it with different columns and straight still configurations.



This is where a smart distiller will add flavors. In the Thump.
I think I mentioned it already... Apples, oranges, hell... Pumpkin Pie spice. You can modify the flavor profile at the same time as increasing the ABV.
For an inefficient tool it is actually very versatile. Add pure water to strip the flavor of a bad mash (lower abv as well), add white lightening to up the ABV of a weak mash, add flavors, or just up the proof of any old mash.

Them Billies done good in my book. but to qualify I still believe Fahrenheit is real;).

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]



Are you going to take a video aga?



A Carter head is a thumper. Exact same principle. You will have a huge advantage in using a thump as a gin basket because of the boost in ABV, and the fact that you will not have to clean juniper oils out of your still.

Half the size of the boiler, and half full of liquid. Simple rule.

Edit:
Corn Gin doesn't even sound right.

What you might want to try is adding peeled cucumber to the gin basket, along with your other products. It really is GOOD!

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]

[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  ..  16    18    20  ..  30

  Go To Top