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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
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We discuss the preparation of phosphorus, nitroglycerin, copper sulfate, mercury, ricin, chlorate, nitrostyrenes, sodium metal, and cyanide like any
other topic.
The point is, this is chemistry. If we restrict one, because of its potential abuse, what is to follow?
A knife, a gun, hell a simple rock, when placed hard on someone's head, can be deadly. None are banned, at least in the US.
Here, a platform is provided for the discussion of chemistry.
The abuse potential is there, undoubtedly. But discussing it doesn't make it a crime. Like a gun (rocket, bioweapon, etc) doesn't kill, but the
person.
Personally, I find it fascinating how ricin works. Or a nuclear or thermonuclear weapon. Or the Influenza virus. Or, the formation of copper sulfate
crystals from a saturated solution. Or even LSD. Doesn't mean my interest incriminates me, and I suspect many people think along similar lines here.
It doesn't mean that we are all set out to commit genocide through WMDs, intoxicate our neighbourhood with drugs we produced, or drown people in
copper sulfate solution.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Sauron
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No, sedit, I would rather infect others (as solo put it) with the truth.
I am almost 60 and I have lived through the changes in society, I gather you are a lot younger. I remember a time before DEA and why DEA was created.
The DEA was not created to fight drug cooks, those are by and large local problems, few are important enough to warrant federal attention. The DEA
initially was focused on Mexican brown heroin. They Bobby Vesco taught some guys in Medellin a thing or two and the cocaine problem emerged, it was
some years before DEA retooled to fight that. Meth as a major problem is still more recent.
And the DOD has nothing to do with regulating explosives.
AN is a major fertilizer, and an important blasting agent in miningm quarrying and civil engineering, it is not going to be banned. It IS regulated.
DOJ ATFE.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
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Polverone,
I appreciate your attitude toward free speech. I really do. I was marching in protests against war and in favor of free speech before your parents
started dating.
But things crossed a line around here a long time ago, see my quote from Rosco Bodine (from 5 years ago) above.
Discussion is one thing, but just a few days ago someone was offering to sell 1/2 kilo of 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde in this thread https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=12...
I suspect that you know as well as I do that this material is a precursor to a Schedule I controlled substance and has few other uses. It's
qualitatively different from benzaldehyde and formamide. He wasn't discussing a potential synthesis of an interesting compound, but was selling the
crap. Why wasn't that thread shut down? It sure wasn't theoretical discussions of mechanisms, was it?
Frankly, I'm having trouble deciding if this is a historically large case of mass denial, or a very cunning sting operation. How better to ferret out
the cooks than to hold an open forum on the internet where discussions of drug syntheses are openly allowed? We'll even supply you the latest
references!
As I said abovethread, professional chemists might discuss the Leuckart reaction, but it's never in the context of amination of phenylpropanone.
I say this respectfully, since I very much appreciate this forum, but will you get a clue young man?
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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I just remembered something pretty funny. A couple of years ago Sauron posted in this thread about the tremendous expense and effort he was going to in order to prepare bremelanotide. At the time it was being discussed as a potential wonder drug for increasing human libido. If the drug had panned out as its
commercial developers hoped it no doubt would have become the most profitable recreational drug discovered in the last century, leaving
methamphetamine and viagra alike in the dust.
So I guess the object lesson is that it's intellectually stimulating and perfectly respectable to manufacture recreational drugs as long as they
aren't widely known or already scheduled. Better to advance the state of the art than to play with yesterday's toys -- can't say I disagree with that.
But it is a little unfair to jump on the people who can't afford $40,000 worth of peptide gear and are stuck with toys made from benzyl cyanide and
other dinosaurs.
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Sauron
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chemoleo, the CW problem is pretty self limiting because anyone who makes such agents DIES. Comprende?
The Aum in Japam s[ent $11 Million on their lab, still has accidents, and in the end managed to kill 12 people. They could have paid 12 people a
million each to suicide and sabed all the bother.
We discarded ricin as a weapom after WWII. The KGB umbrella gun was used on 5 people and killed only 2 of them, Georgi Markov being the famous victim.
Epics of failure.
Banning such topics on ONE forum does not preclude discussion on another forum, but it would make life a lot easier for all concerned on that one
forum. No kewls, no idiotd, no mad bombers. No BlueTooth, no ItalianXPchemist, no TheMadMen.
Admin would still be able to allow things like tetrazoles at his sole discretion. I could give lots of examples but polverone isn't having any so why
bother? SM is a lost cause. Time to seek greener pastures.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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DJF90
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There are threads here that are borderline. There are threads that are just plain wrong. The titles of these two say it all:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1102
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6531
I feel that even in my short time so far at sciencemadness there has been a noticable increase in the number of drug-orientated threads created. And I
feel helpless because I've seen so many idiots on here that are RUINING our right to experiment, causing DEFAMATION of our hobby, and getting useful
chemicals BANNED for us. Not only that, but sources that may have sold to individuals previously now may not - or may do so in a very restricted
fashion. I hate the idea of our hobby being made any harder, but the passive attitute towards some members/threads/topics here is doing just that.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  | Polverone,
I appreciate your attitude toward free speech. I really do. I was marching in protests against war and in favor of free speech before your parents
started dating.
But things crossed a line around here a long time ago, see my quote from Rosco Bodine (from 5 years ago) above.
Discussion is one thing, but just a few days ago someone was offering to sell 1/2 kilo of 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde in this thread https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=12...
I suspect that you know as well as I do that this material is a precursor to a Schedule I controlled substance and has few other uses. It's
qualitatively different from benzaldehyde and formamide. He wasn't discussing a potential synthesis of an interesting compound, but was selling the
crap. Why wasn't that thread shut down? It sure wasn't theoretical discussions of mechanisms, was it?
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I think you will find proportionally much less drug discussion in this forum during the last year than in 2004, even though some people have the
erroneous impression that SM is in some sort of drug-hazed delcine. That is because the rules have changed in 5 years and a lot of things that were
allowed before have been stopped.
As for the dimethoxybenzaldehyde sale, it was left open because it doesn't violate any of the rules. We have two rules about sales here: nothing that
is illegal to buy or sell in the US can be offered for sale, and "buyer beware." The benzaldehyde does have one obvious drug application, but it's not
an immediate drug precursor nor even on the DEA's List I. I try to set rules and then enforce them as consistently as I can. I realize I fall short of
the ideal. But shutting the 2,5 DMB sale thread when it violated no established rules seemed unfair to me. "I can't personally think of a nondrug use"
doesn't seem like a fair way to judge chemicals' status, especially when (as in this case) actual law enforcement agencies apparently regard it as of
less concern than iodine crystals or methylamine.
Edit: I just searched Google Scholar for "2,5 dimethoxybenzaldehyde" and excluded any result containing the word "drug" or "2-CB." There were still
hundreds of hits. I knew my passing familiarity with this compound wasn't the alpha and omega of its uses.
[Edited on 7-9-2009 by Polverone]
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Sauron
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Polverone
1. Bremelanotide is not illegal
2. I am not interested in selling it. Am MD friend asked me to make it.
3. I spent more than $50,000 om Waters HPLC gear analytical and prep. The main set is a PrepLC5000 quad pump and controller 150 ml/min for 10 ml
samples. Rheodyne injector. Mo;;emium32 software control via IEEE-488 bus. I have 486 and 490E UV detectors, 2 of former and 5 of latter.
I bought the PrepLC from HiTechTrader in NJ and most of the rest from a couple of dealers in Michigan or off LabX. Also a 715 autosampler, a pair of
fraction collectors, 4 Model 600E analytical quad pumps. A few simple isocratic pumps, etc, Lots of manuals. Amd yes all for AMATEUR EXPERIMENTALISM
and no fucking drug cookery. Though at the moment I wish I has my $50 thou back. I chose Waters partly because it is 220V 50 Hz capablee.
What does making an unregulated peptide have to do eith drug cookery? You might as well argue that aspirin is the moral equivalent of heroin. (Both
Bayet anyway.)
And I have yet to make any, the cash cow is out of milk now.
Now have I used my HPLS for anything else. I did show it to SSgtHazMat who is back in USA from 2 years in Iraq. Ask him.
[Edited on 9-7-2009 by Sauron]
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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| Quote: Originally posted by DJF90 | There are threads here that are borderline. There are threads that are just plain wrong. The titles of these two say it all:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1102
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6531
I feel that even in my short time so far at sciencemadness there has been a noticable increase in the number of drug-orientated threads created. And I
feel helpless because I've seen so many idiots on here that are RUINING our right to experiment, causing DEFAMATION of our hobby, and getting useful
chemicals BANNED for us. Not only that, but sources that may have sold to individuals previously now may not - or may do so in a very restricted
fashion. I hate the idea of our hobby being made any harder, but the passive attitute towards some members/threads/topics here is doing just that.
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An increase in new drug oriented threads since you joined? Maybe you didn't read them carefully but the threads you linked were both started more than
a year before you joined. Both threads have been active in the past year but nothing posted recently in either seems very production-oriented except
perhaps one message by Sandmeyer.
Please do use the report button if you think a post has crossed a line. The moderators who receive your report may not always agree. I guarantee that
we do not read every post in every thread, so we rely on people actually reporting objectionable messages.
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DJF90
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We all know that the DEA is misguided. I'm suprised they havent banned stuffed animals seeing as they have "potential use" to smuggle drugs from one
place to another. We however have our own intuition. What other uses - besides the synthesis of the aforementioned compound - can
2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde have to an amateur chemist, in your own personal opinion? I'm interested should you come up with anything, but I fear that
is not the case.
EDIT: Polverone - I did not intend that the threads mentioned in my previous post were created since I joined - merely that I think the title
instantly should cause the closure of these threads. If the content is acceptable then the threads should at least be renamed to something more
"scientific"
[Edited on 9-7-2009 by DJF90]
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entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
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Polverone said " Maybe you didn't read them carefully but the threads you linked were both started more than a year before you joined. Both threads
have been active in the past year but nothing posted recently in either seems very production-oriented except perhaps one message by Sandmeyer."
The thread titles contain "amphetamines" and "ketamine".
I don't think a Google of either of those terms should home in on an amateur chemistry forum. Unless said forum is really a sting.
"I can't personally think of a nondrug use" doesn't seem like a fair way to judge chemicals' status". Still having trouble with this clue concept,
are we?
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Magpie
lab constructor
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Polverone's liberal policies are one of the characteristics of this forum that foster its diversity and openness. I don't really want to see more
rules and regulations.
I think there is a better way to handle posts that you believe are detrimental to the forum: ridicule and taunting. That way you are giving the
poster a chance to defend his post. We should use this technique more often, myself included.
I have made methylamine HCl, benzaldehyde, Ac2O, and probably other common drug precursors. I made these all for the purpose of performing
experiments in my 1962 organic lab manual - written before the war on drugs.
So if you think someone is up to illegal activity then challenge him, taunt him, and/or ridicule him. He might just convince you that he's doing
something legitimate. If not, he'll probably leave.
Don't get me wrong - I hate drug cookery.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
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Magpie, I think I have that same manual. "Unitized Experiments" by Brewster et al, isnt it? I think you've cited it here; it's one of my favorite
books, but it's seen better days. I had it before I knew how to be careful with H2SO4; the clothes I wore in those days fared no better.
MeNH2, benzaldehyde, Ac2O aren't the issue for me. It's phenylpropanone and phenyl-2-bromopropane, etc., the direct precursors. And the routes to go
from precursor to finished "product". You will find those here, thinly disguised or not at all disguised.
I'd agree with you that if the cooks were taunted and ridiculed, but my feeling is that they are more likely to be welcomed and supplied with the
latest references. And they don't leave.
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Sauron
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Maggie, I would mever advise the compounds you mentioned from prep discussion, they are all multiuse in the extreme. I am not proposing that we fall
on our swords.
Ridicule and ranting I have been doing in such cases for 2.5 years, see what it has gotten me. Micodem says I insult and humiliate members. I say,
some deserved it. Some insulted me first. Nicodem does not allow for such distinctions. He has hiw own agenda.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Sedit
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I could care less.
I learn just as much talking about drug synthesis as I do explosive synthesis and ester synthesis. I feel no need to limit myself in discussion
because of a governments attempts to implant the idea that these are devil substances. To each his own I feel. Most opinions based on drug cooks comes
from propaganda anyway so why should I change my stance on anything base on 50-90% of lies? Drugs have been a part of society since the beginning of
time yet the second we attempt these legislations these the money and power that normaly went back to the society was put into the hands of the
ruthless and greedy and im not just talking about those supplying the drugs but those fighting against them as well.
Im with Polerone on this one. If somefolks feel the will to discuss this or even make them for that matter that is there choice and no one twist
anyones arm to help them. They are performing operations illegal by current law and will pay dearly in time.
If they made and discussed a brand new psycoactive substance completely different the current drugs would this still be considered drug cooking or
experimenting?
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Sauron
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As usual, sedit, you miss the point. Banning discussion of illegal drugs, explosives and CW agents has nothing whatsoever to do with any government
anything, It is in the interest of the FORUM and eliminates almost all of the major types of undesirables. The impacr on anyone's ability to learn
chemistry is NIL.
You need not study mustard gas to learn su;fur chemistry.
You need not learn how to make NG or PETN to learn nitration.
I first read Davis' book more than 40 years ago and there is VERY little in there that teached how to do anything BUT make explosives. In fact it is
quite out of date. The dye chemistry books in forum library will teach you a LOT more practical chemistry, including nitration, than Davis.
Learn medicinal chemistry NOT drug cookery.
Read all you want about those topics, I's give you the books, just don't post about the,
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sauron | Polverone
1. Bremelanotide is not illegal
2. I am not interested in selling it. Am MD friend asked me to make it.
3. I spent more than $50,000 om Waters HPLS gear analytical and prep.
What does making an unregulated peptide have to do eith drug cookery? You might as well argue that aspirin is the moral equivalent of heroin. (Both
Bayet anyway.)
And I have yet to make any, the cash cow is out of milk now.
Now have I used my HPLS for anything else. I did show it to SSgtHazMat who is back in USA from 2 years in Iraq. Ask him. |
You were/are trying to make a recreational drug for human consumption, albeit not for profit and not in violation of extant laws. Even now there are
discussions on other forums about producing novel unscheduled recreational drugs for human consumption. Shall I encourage discussion of brand new
recreational compounds here up until the DEA emergency schedules them, then slam the door shut once they're formally outlawed?
I was joking a bit in my previous post because I find you bewildering and contradictory in your statements and behavior toward legalities and drug
chemistry. You invest tremendous resources in producing a recreational drug for personal sharing and intellectual challenge, while thinking every
other amateur making recreational drugs must be at it for profit. You don't seem particularly concerned about respecting inconvenient laws, as you
have posted many times about circumventing the Thailand MOD's chemical restrictions. You have even written:
| Quote: |
You would likely be surprised at my personal viewpoint regarding the overall solution to the drug problem.
But first let me redict to one point: drugs are not expensive because of enforcement.
For many years we have been ratcheting UP enforcement, without so much as a pause. We are in the fourth or fifth decade of the "war on drugs" and we
are coming up on the centennial of the Harrison Act.
Yet just as remorselessly every year the drug supply gets bigger and the price goes DOWN not up.
Clearly this is a failure. Just as clearly the price is related only to the supply and enforcement/interdiction is immaterial.
So faced with the totality of failure the futility of continuing on present course is obvious. It is obvious to conservative replublicans as well;
William F Buckley now advocates decriminalization. His concerns and mine are erosion of civil liberties and the rise of a police state, the absurd
costs of incarceration, the fact that 90% of our prison inmates are in for drug crimes, etc.
I doubt that he would go as far as I would. I would as the govt, contract out manuf of all "abuse" drugs to the pharm industry on usual lowest bidder
basis, and make such drugs available at pharmacies on demand without prescription. |
You don't seem to be a Puritan, or a great respector of law for law's sake, and you even planned to manufacture your own recreational drug to satisfy
some curiosity and/or do a favor for your doctor friend. So I don't understand if I am reading Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde when you talk about your
personal drug production plans and opposition to prohibition and then denounce drug chemists as the killers of amateur chemistry. For sure a genuine
human aphrodesiac would be more habit-forming than something like LSD, so your attitudes don't even seem based on habituation risk. Your above remarks
about the futility of prohibition show that you know it is a enterprise now running on its own schedule, practically immune to criticism or meaningful
policy reform.
A purge/prohibition of possible drug topics isn't going to fix the legal and social distrust we face any more than changing the forum's logo to a pink
ribbon is going to cure breast cancer. It would be an insignificant symbolic gesture in support of a legal and social order that I do not even
personally approve, and from your previous remarks I don't see how you approve or support it either. I would rather benefit from the mutual overlap of
interests when an amateur -- any amateur -- writes about a new way to produce phosphorus or grignard reagents that's well suited to the home lab. If I
run them off because I suspect that knowledge will be used to produce drugs, I lose out on learning opportunities and don't gain any new concessions
from vendors, governments, or the general public that can compensate for the loss.
I realize that I do lose out on learning from members who are uncomfortable with drug discussion and may be driven elsewhere if I don't purge
discussion even more than I have already done. I can't please everyone. If a new robust home chemistry forum starts, one more strictly concerned with
propriety and legality, it may be to everyone's benefit if we all self segregate according to our views (apart from the inconvenience of following
multiple forums).
Edit: I should add that we haven't had a post about producing phenyl-2-propanone in any but the vaguest terms in a year.
There was recently a thread about phenyl-2-bromopropane that Sauron actually contributed in. So even the people leading the hue and cry against drug
chemistry apparently can't reach consensus on what should be banned. My suspicion is that following this path you eventually end up with a forum as
bland and little-used as Citizen Chemist on chemicalforums.com (which to its credit has plenty of good discussion in the other subforums).
[Edited on 7-9-2009 by Polverone]
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Rosco Bodine
Banned
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@entropy351 The reason for my remark posing that question I asked 5 years ago is because at the time
there was a flurry of discussion posts which seemed to have a recognizable signature interest and at that time
the Hive was a better resource for such discussion, so
I was hoping those having such interests would take the hint.
@Sedit I have been around awhile, and you really don't know what is my mentality or motives or interests, so
you shouldn't even begin to try to profile me or to psychoanalyze me, for posing a rhetorical question as I did during a time when there was a
noticeable trend
to posts which was looking like Hive activity more than
the usual SM fare. Now sure riiiiiight was it ignorant
supposition and bias for me to suppose that the topic
of that thread, when there are so many better ways
of getting benzaldehyde, was more probably a topic
that was a Hive import to SM, or more probably a chemical salvage request for a freight quantity of somebody having an expiration dated railroad car
full of old almond oil on which they desired to cut their loss.
You tell me, with a straight face.
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entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
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Polverone,
You seem to be confusing drug development and dope cookery.
Or maybe confusing "investigational drug" and "recreational drug", or even "illicit drug", or "illegal drug".
You are quite good at defending your policies, but this dog won't hunt.
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Sauron
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You use the phrase "recreational drug" over and over. The usual meaning of recreational ILLEGAL drug isn't it?
Your argument turns on equating an investigational pharmaceutical pm final throes of FDA approval with designer street drugs that you say are not yet
illegal. Actually that depends on the specific structure and jurisdiction, so it is not a given. I see a HUGE difference between such and
bremelanotide which after all is not a stimulant, not a hallucinogen, not an opiate or barbiturate or even analgesic. It is a minor analog of a human
hormone that controls skin pignebtation (MSHa) produced in the human pituitary, it's not even a crude cGMP inhibitor like Viagra. It acts directly on
the human libido. Quite unique.
And I spent that $50K so the stuff will be PURE, as pure as what comes out of Palatine. Else I will not take it and neither will the doc.
Does any drug cook you ever heard of do that?
No, sorry, your argument is false. Calling PT-141 a recreational drug is inaccurate and I think uou know it. Equating it to designer street drugs is
absurd and again you know it. The FDA is not about to approve those. Amd you know it as well. You are desperate and you are being disingenuous.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Rosco Bodine
Banned
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When young pups venture into the dark forest where the big dogs eat, sometimes they get their tails nipped,
or maybe get their ass chewed thoroughly.....
live, laugh, learn 
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Sauron
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Polverone
As to the phenyl-2-bromopropane thread, that is chemrox's thread. Chemrox is a former student of Zvi Rappaport at UC Berkeley, a lontime Catholic monk
and a former professional medicinal chemist now a geologist in your own state. We have had lengthy discussions and I am quite satisfoed that he is far
from being any sort of meth cook. Were this not the case I would not be his friend and would never have posted in that thread. Why don't you ask him
what he is about? He respects you. He will tell you the truth.
Therer are often dual use, multi use exceptions. Some require sound judgement and knowledge of the chemist concerned. If it had been almost abtone
else I wouls guess drug cook, too.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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I meant recreational drug in a strict sense, not colloquially. A drug that enhances sexual experiences is going to be widely used for fun, whether or
not it's formally approved only for those with sexual dysfunction. See how much Viagra is sold outside of approved medical channels. Your actions say
you're not opposed to Better Living Through Chemistry, your words say you don't support drug prohibition, you have to know that changing how amateur
chemists talk online won't change laws for the better... It doesn't add up to any sort of coherent picture for me.
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Sauron
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I expect that bremelanoride will be knocked off just like sild and now tamiflu, in placebo, counterfeit and analog forms, mainly by the Indians and
Chinese. I also know that there is no way to get in on that even if I wanted to - which I do NOT. I turned down a proposal to make bulk sild a few
years ago for $2000/Kg because I didn't want to work that hard (they wanted quite a few Kg a month) to make someone else rich. Besides, Pfizer's
process emgineer in Cork at that time on their sild line was a friend and I did not want to put him in an awkward spot.
I also passed on a project to make triacetyluridine, importing bulk uridine from China and acetylating with Ac2O catalyzed by DMAP. Then cleanup with
size exclusion chromatography. I would have had to make my own Ac2O as it os a no-no here due to the H biz aceoss the borthern borders. And the Thai
FDA (called Aw Yaw gere) may have been bloodsuckers. So I said no.
TAU is not recreational, a friend in the US patent office (examiner) tipped me off this was going to be avery hot anticancer drug, As far as I know he
was wrong. I am glas I stayed away.
I am no puritan abd I am a scofflaw, the Thais are a nation of such. Ask the DEA. During the Japamese occupation the Japs said Thailand was a country
of 40 million thieves. When the first OSS team parachuted in to aid the resistance, the Thais who met them killed them for the gold bullion they had.
The next team went in with guns ready and a bad attitude.
But I am retired and have no interest in hinky business deals. I live quietly and have enough money.
I can't be blamed if you are puzzled. Mr Psychologist Nicodem also finds me opaque. Perhaps it was not rational to spend that money on HPLC - for sure
Mrs Sauron would absolutely agree. But maybe I will find some use, or sell it off on labX' Or consign to a dealer.
[Edited on 9-7-2009 by Sauron]
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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benzylchloride1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 16-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pushing the envelope of synthetic chemistry in one's basement
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Medicinal chemistry is a fascinating field. We need to have more discussion on synthesis of medicines that fix problems such as pennicillin instead of
a new way of making something like methamphetamine. The synthesis of oseltamivir (Tamiflu) is an interesting one; starting with shikimic acid which
has 5 stereocenters and converting it to finished product is a feat of asymmetric synthesis. Ths synthesis of amphetamines has little to offer to the
amateur beside a way of getting high or making a buck. The Wang Hendrickson synthesis was fascinating to me because of the ring formation involved. I
am reluctant to post in the methylamine hydrochloride thread because I would be aiding the drug cooks. I recently synthesized methylamine
hydrochloride to use it to produce a nitrosomethylaminoketone that is used to produce diazomethane.
Amateur NMR spectroscopist
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