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Author: Subject: EU Survey on Chemical Restrictions – Stop further chemical bans
blogfast25
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[*] posted on 15-2-2023 at 04:28


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
I am not European, but I absolutely do not support fascism. Europe is turning into a fascist state. Individual nations under authoritarian rule by the EU and it's head of state so to say. They have a centralized currency for the EU, and the members national funds have been converted and as explained to me, essentially EU funds now. Any person who wishes to loose gets the book thrown at them. They do not support individualism and treat immigrants better than many of the locals who helped build the land to what it is now. They restrict people rights, and I feel practicing chemistry (and all other sciences) is a right, the first chemists were alchemists working in their shop, some of the greatest discoveries were made by people working at home. Modern day example is NerdRage perfecting the solvent extraction of potassium and all his video documentation.

Sorry for the political comment as I know politics is strictly prohibited here, but this is a scary truth and I am sure at least some here will agree and very least not disagree with some of my statements.


Well, I AM European and the first to criticise the EU for some things.

Your criticism however is both ABSURD and OFFENSIVE. Not to mention gross misinformation.

If this is the kind of crapola that flies in the Canadian webosphere then that might say more about Canada than about Europe!

The (supported) ban on political commentary on this site prevents me from demolishing your arguments further but I will say this: you clearly haven't got the FOGGIEST CLUE about fascism! And misuse of the term makes fighting actual fascism harder, actually.




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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 15-2-2023 at 05:46


I've submitted it too now.

Imagine a fascist state that encourages consultation about a national security issue, not only from its own citizens but also from foreign ones! :D:D

I suggest that stuff about the EU, including mine, is pruned off and sent to Detritus.

[Edited on 15-2-2023 by blogfast25]




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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 15-2-2023 at 06:45


Quote:
I am not European, but I absolutely do not support fascism. Europe is turning into a fascist state.

People call everything fascism these days. These complaints not only needlessly sensationalize and exaggerate debates, they miss the whole underlying reason why anyone was supposed to care about fascism in the first place.

Here's the problem with fascism: it's appealing. The reason fascism is dangerous even compared to other kinds of bad policy is that it creates a romanticized context under which terrible ideas can seem to make sense, at least to some people. So we shouldn't call bad policies "fascist" unless they offer a fascist appeal: the idea of an Orderly Society run by the Good People with Natural Human (or some-Ethnic) Ideas who have been Wrongly Suppressed by the Manipulative Schemes of the Lying Intellectual Elites. (I could also talk about how state-corporate partnerships allow the state to exert its authority beyond the boundaries of the law, but I digress.)

Not every authoritarian policy is fascism. Not every bad policy is fascism. Not every discriminatory and unfair policy is fascism. Not every antidemocratic policy is fascism. Not every racist policy is fascism. Not every sexist policy is fascism. Not every nationalist policy is fascism.

When you hear people calling things fascism, when those things do not carry the risk of fascism, the risk of a romantic narrative that makes decent people accept horrible things, those people are full of it.




Quote: Originally posted by bnull  
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Syn the Sizer
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[*] posted on 15-2-2023 at 12:12


Quote: Originally posted by charley1957  
I just submitted the survey from Texas. There were choices you can check and one of them was Non EU Citizen, and I listed USA as my country. There was a pie chart that showed a percentage of other folks outside the EU had also answered the survey. Couldn’t hurt to try. Mine submitted successfully.


Awesome, thanks, I must have the link. I will check again when I get home.
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Syn the Sizer
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[*] posted on 15-2-2023 at 13:10


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  

If this is the kind of crapola that flies in the Canadian webosphere then that might say more about Canada than about Europe!


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  

You clearly haven't got the FOGGIEST CLUE about fascism! And misuse of the term makes fighting actual fascism harder, actually.


To make it clear, I did not say Europe was a fascist state, I said it is turning into one. My opinions are actually base on discussions with various friends from Europe and they were the first to make the claim, then upon research on in fascism to get a better understanding I saw some parallels where I see Europe heading with the EU restrictions.

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  
Quote:


Not every authoritarian policy is fascism. Not every bad policy is fascism. Not every discriminatory and unfair policy is fascism. Not every antidemocratic policy is fascism. Not every racist policy is fascism. Not every sexist policy is fascism. Not every nationalist policy is fascism.


I do agree, I didn't say this bill was fascist, just that the EU is becoming one as it seems they are slowly banning everything. It starts with one and eventually you have no rights. I also feel being united under one common banner like the EU destroys cultural individuality, in time it will become one group with the same money, same restrictions. Then next thing you know there will be no petition, they will tell you what is and isn't.

it took very little time for Canada and the many cultures that founded us to become one. Mind you we were also all in a new land and not our ancestral land.

I still see the risk of it becoming a fascist state, again, not saying it is now or these restrictions are.
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[*] posted on 15-2-2023 at 14:36


I would like to suggest that, in addition to the inconvenience caused to budding home chemists by the ever-tightening lockdown on common chemicals, that it might be more compelling to point out the impact it must be having on the average homeowner now having fewer choices for household drain cleaners, etc., and also on small businesses or people trying to start small businesses who are now frustrated trying to obtain what until recently were common chemicals. Maybe it would help to compile a list of all the odd uses for these chemicals that the average person might, at some point, have an interest in. My suggestion is, basically, instead of trying to defend the rights of a small minority, point out that the rights of the average person are ultimately being abridged.

[Edited on 15-2-2023 by Jenks]
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[*] posted on 16-2-2023 at 00:41


It´s not only the fewer choices....it´s the problem that even the possession is now illegal. If you have somewhere a bottle of battery acid forgotten, which is sulfuric acid with 30% you can be punished with a fine or up to three years in jail in Germany according to the Ausgangsstoffgesetz - AusgStG http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ausgstg/index.html

bj68
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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 16-2-2023 at 03:57


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  

To make it clear, I did not say Europe was a fascist state, I said it is turning into one. My opinions are actually base on discussions with various friends from Europe and they were the first to make the claim, then upon research on in fascism to get a better understanding I saw some parallels where I see Europe heading with the EU restrictions.



The people you were talking to are inveterate fools. See also @clearly_not_atara' s points.

And the only ones who believe the EU is/is becoming a 'state' are Brexiteers and perennial Eurosceptics. You hang out with the wrong crowd, which also makes you a f**l.




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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 17-2-2023 at 08:43


@blogfast: was* european- technically UK isnt europe. ☻

seems that the UK is getting worse much faster just to make it seem like not being part of EU is a bad thing
walled off neighbourhood where you cant drive because CO2, travel zone restrictions




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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 17-2-2023 at 10:31


Quote: Originally posted by Fantasma4500  
@blogfast: was* european- technically UK isnt europe. ☻



I'm not British but of a European nationality. I just happen to live in the disaster area called 'Albion'. :mad:

Quote: Originally posted by Fantasma4500  
that the UK is getting worse much faster just to make it seem like not being part of EU is a bad thing


Someone called Brexit 'the largest case of economic self-harm [by the uk]'

Have a quick gander e.g.: https://sourcechemicals.com/product/hydrogen-peroxide-9-food...


[Edited on 17-2-2023 by blogfast25]




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[*] posted on 19-2-2023 at 12:39


Tomorrow will be the last day of this survey running.

I have contributed my own opinion now, including a position paper, proposing a relaxation of the strict rules implemented with the infamous 2019/1148 directives (aka the Sulfuric Acid Ban), and advocating against further chemical restrictions. This relaxation may either be a complete abolishment of 2019/1448 (very unlikely) or the introduction of a proper chemical permit that all EU member states are required to accept, giving people access to small quantities of:

- Sulfuric acid up to 100 %
- Nitric acid up to 70 %
- Hydrogen peroxide up to 35 %
- Urotropine,

as well as continued unlimited access to Sodium hypochlorite, Calcium hypochlorite and Trichloroisocyanuric acid, all of which are frequently used as pool disinfection chemicals.

Thank you so much for the contributions so far. Before I posted this thread, a mere six people voted on this survey, now the number is close to 200. I hope that our opinion will not entirely be left unheard.

Edit: Also, please refrain from political discussions not relevant to this topic.

[Edited on 19-2-2023 by FRTZKNG]

[Edited on 19-2-2023 by FRTZKNG]
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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 19-2-2023 at 13:02


Quote: Originally posted by FRTZKNG  


I have contributed my own opinion now, including a position paper, proposing a relaxation of the strict rules implemented with the infamous 2019/1148 directives (aka the Sulfuric Acid Ban), and advocating against further chemical restrictions.


Stellar work, top man! :):)




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[*] posted on 20-2-2023 at 00:07


I’m going to send my own contribution before the deadline
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[*] posted on 20-2-2023 at 04:13


I tried to fill it but there are so many questions that I lost myself in the middle. It is not possible to read/understand/fill everything during my normal workday.
If somebody (who positioned himself as an amateur chemist) already managed to fill it could you share your answers, I will try to support your opinion with my own voice.
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[*] posted on 20-2-2023 at 07:06


Quote: Originally posted by teodor  
I tried to fill it but there are so many questions that I lost myself in the middle. It is not possible to read/understand/fill everything during my normal workday.


What questions?
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[*] posted on 20-2-2023 at 23:18


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
Quote: Originally posted by teodor  
I tried to fill it but there are so many questions that I lost myself in the middle. It is not possible to read/understand/fill everything during my normal workday.


What questions?


I hadn't seen the questionnaire. Thought it was just the matter of writing a position paper. It is in, though. 23:00 Bruxelles time. That was a close shave.
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Mabus
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[*] posted on 22-2-2023 at 11:23


I also filled the form, a few days ago. I really hated a lot of the questions, since they were literally repeating themselves. There was also the option of uploading an essay, where I could have said more, but I have a distinct feeling that it might not have mattered much, mainly due to how the questionnaire was written.



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[*] posted on 24-5-2023 at 12:59


There has been some new developments: Summary report

Attachment: Summary_Report.pdf (440kB)
This file has been downloaded 197 times

It reads as though the feedback was indeed heard! To quote:

Quote:

Feedback on the need for EU action and possible policy options
Low appetite for regulation was clearly displayed in the results of the consultation. 76% of participants (185) thought that access to the high-risk chemicals should either not be regulated at all or to a low extent.

Quote:

Overall, all position papers expressed some sceptical views about the introduction of stricter measures for the control of chemicals. On the contrary, they pointed out that it could have negative effects on hobbyists, workers, employees and the general public. To that end, some proposed investing more in awareness and information to educate the general public and commercial actors on how to use chemicals safely and responsibly, rather than imposing restrictions.


Maybe it is too early to celebrate, let's hope they will make the sensible choice here.




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[*] posted on 24-5-2023 at 15:39


241 participants is amazingly low.
The results are quite interesting. I'm not surprised though. More regulations usually means a lot of money spent for companies.




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BJ68
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[*] posted on 28-5-2023 at 05:26


[...]5 CONCLUSIONS AND NEXT STEPS
The outcome of the public consultation points to support from members of the general
public for awareness raising and capacity-building among law enforcement and customs
authorities regarding the security risks stemming from the misuse of high-risk chemicals
[...]

Interesting conclusion....the feedback was heard, but the conclusion shows they do not care......

bj68
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[*] posted on 29-5-2023 at 23:29


Quote: Originally posted by BJ68  
Interesting conclusion....the feedback was heard, but the conclusion shows they do not care......

Notice how the planned restrictions are absent in that paragraph. Raising awareness instead of restrictions are the results of the survey - not a sign of "not caring" imo.




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