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Author: Subject: Looking over the border: EU-Regulations
Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 09:41


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Not sure why everyone thinks the EU is one single entity.

Here in Spain you can go to any supermarket for 20% HCl, Distilled water and sodium hydroxide, all cheap.

At any Ironmongers' you can buy :-
1 litre 98% H2SO4 for 5 euros (also at a plumber's shop).
12% sodium hypochlorite (20 litres, 17 euros)

At a Garden Centre you can buy :-
Nitric Acid (min 30 litres, 9 euros)
Phosphoric acid (min 20 litres, 26 euros)
Potassium Nitrate (min 20kg)
Ammonium Nitrate (min 25kg)
Flowers of Sulphur (1 euro a kilo)
Cannabis seeds
Bee Hives
Live chickens

It is Illegal here to keep Bees without a licence, although you can have as many chickens as you like.

In the UK you'd be burnt at an equal-opportunities stake for trying to buy Any of those items !

Seems i can have some guns and ammo as well if i want, same as Switzerland, Germany, France, Austria etc.

(i don't want one because their single purpose it to just kill things)


Good for Spain. Just hope the creeping regulator prohibitionists don't get their hooks into liberty there. The suffocating effect of it is unmistakable when the imposed restrictions arrive. The effect is oppressive and it is a gradual thing where one by one things disappear from shelves.

As for guns, well target shooting involves no killing, but if killing should become necessary for food or survival needs otherwise, guns do have utility just like other useful tools fit for the task. Nobody's opinions changes that utility to nullify that fitness, and even though the most important purpose would be to kill things, there are times when that is precisely the correct action.
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 10:27


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
Young people of e.g. 2020 ... are put off.

Repression invariably leads to an excess of that (thing:implied)* you wish to repress.

May as well ban Sex or Breathing - people always find a way, because they want to do the things that they want to do.

[Edited on 26-3-2016 by aga]


I blame my parents for why I am so boring, they encouraged and gave me a very wide berth to do what I wanted, alcohol wasn't some evil substance, chem was encouraged as was building mechanics electronics.

So by the time I was 15 I had no desire to "party" drink or do drugs or any such thing, as it was nothing special or interesting, instead I was engineering electrochemicle cells and such :)

More you say it is bad the more they want to do it. So the choice is simple, have people doing things properly and safely and "Gasp" LEARNING or have people doing things wrong, dangerously and doing damage whilst learning nothing!
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 10:35


Quote: Originally posted by Chem Rage  
Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston  
At this rate, we'll soon have to resort to isolating everything from nature.
Back to the middle ages.

[Edited on 8-4-2016 by phlogiston]


It is very wrong to paint everyone with the same brush, which is exactly what these blanket bans and restrictions do. How patronising it is to be treated like a little kid who needs Nanny State to keep you safe :mad:


That's becuase we stopped natural selection, when you try to protect the stupid from them selfs we all lose out!

Soon it will be illegal to wipe your rear with out a permit and a safety course!
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 11:22


Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
More you say it is bad the more they want to do it. So the choice is simple, have people doing things properly and safely and "Gasp" LEARNING or have people doing things wrong, dangerously and doing damage whilst learning nothing!


Words of wisdom for the weekend. Especially the conclusion because that's when accidents happen !
(Which then of course brings us a harder legislation)
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 12:04


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
More you say it is bad the more they want to do it. So the choice is simple, have people doing things properly and safely and "Gasp" LEARNING or have people doing things wrong, dangerously and doing damage whilst learning nothing!


Words of wisdom for the weekend. Especially the conclusion because that's when accidents happen !
(Which then of course brings us a harder legislation)


Indeed it saved me allot being able to ask befor I tried some thing potentially dangerous, part of that is how I learned to all ways check my material compatibility befor making some thing.

When one can actually ask with out fearing being jailed or things taking away from them, they are much more inclined to ask, and with every question is an opportunity to educate!

As they learn and succeed the more they desire to learn more! This is how we make experts, soon we will have barely functioning dunces the way we punish curiosity, and discourage critical thinking.
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 21:34


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Not sure why everyone thinks the EU is one single entity.
Here in Spain you can go to any supermarket for 20% HCl, Distilled water and sodium hydroxide, all cheap.


Fine and nice for you, but remember at the postings from woelen....the things can be go bad very fast....and look at the Art 18 of the regulation:

Quote:

Article 18 Review

1. By 2 September 2017, the Commission shall present a report to the European Parliament and to the Council examining:
(a) any problems that have arisen as a result of the application of this Regulation;
(b) the desirability and feasibility of further strengthening and harmonising the system in view of the threat to public security caused by terrorism and other serious criminal activities, taking into account the experience gained by Member States under this Regulation, including any detected security gaps, taking into account the costs and benefits for Member States, economic operators and other relevant stakeholders;
(c) the desirability and feasibility of extending the scope of this Regulation to cover professional users, taking into account the burdens imposed on economic operators and having regard to the objective of this Regulation;
(d) the desirability and feasibility of including non-scheduled explosives precursors in the provisions on reporting of suspicious transactions, disappearances and thefts.

2. By 2 March 2015, the Commission shall present a report to the European Parliament and to the Council examining the possibilities to transfer relevant provisions on ammonium nitrate from Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 into this Regulation.

3. If appropriate, in the light of the reports referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2, the Commission shall submit a legislative proposal to the European Parliament and to the Council with a view to amending this Regulation accordingly.


So I think you are in a grace period at Spain....and have you cecked the Spanish government sites for new laws regarding this issue?

Bj68
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[*] posted on 16-6-2016 at 18:03
"It's time to start hoarding before TSCA kicks in"


This is the title of two letters submitted to the editor of today's Wall Street Journal. Here are two excerpts:

"...After all the glowing articles about the bipartisan revisions to the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), what this means is that they need to hustle to the nearest home center and purchase a lifetime supply of acetone, MEK, lacquer thinner, etc., as these products will start disappearing from store shelves due to our new enlightenment. I hope you don't need these products in the future. Steve Helmreich, Colorado Springs, Colo."

"Just because a thing is overwhelmingly bipartisan doesn't mean it is right or even good. The unelected "experts" at the EPA and related groups have been given even more power to control every inch of our existence - in the name of helping, of course. Michael Moussourakis, Long Island City, N.Y."

Edit 1:

Here's a paper that shows whats on TSCA's hit list. Note the table. I didn't see much that was of concern to me. I presume that the EPA is only concerned with these chemicals contained in consumer products. Ie, we will still be able to buy chemicals through suppliers like Elemental Scientific, LLC. Please correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-01/documents...

Some chemicals that jumped out at me:

TCE (already impossible or hard to get)
CCl4( " " " " )
benzene
cadmium & Cd compounds
chromium & Cr compounds
barium carbonate (wtf)
naphthalene
DCM

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by Magpie]

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by Magpie]




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 04:22


Saw this on the DHS website.

image.jpg - 250kB
So it looks like we are going to let terrorism win by letting the actions of maniacs dictate what freedoms we are allowed. Sounds a lot like the reach program in the EU
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 08:50


I would hate to see the US go the way of the EU, but it probably will eventually.

Some day we are all going to have to make fundamental reagents ourselves from innocuous family friendly precursors.

Let's see where this might go:

1. nitric acid from air, water & electricity
2. acetone from rubbing alcohol
3. hydrogen peroxide from water & electricity (a guess)
4. NaOH and bleach from salt & electricity
5. H2SO4 from sulfur, air, and water

Remember, some congressman wanted to ban sodium bicarbonate as it was useful to drug cooks! :( I think they should forbid that asshole from any baked goods made with sodium bicarbonate.






The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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[*] posted on 14-9-2016 at 07:18


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I would hate to see the US go the way of the EU, but it probably will eventually.

Some day we are all going to have to make fundamental reagents ourselves from innocuous family friendly precursors.

Let's see where this might go:

1. nitric acid from air, water & electricity
2. acetone from rubbing alcohol
3. hydrogen peroxide from water & electricity (a guess)
4. NaOH and bleach from salt & electricity
5. H2SO4 from sulfur, air, and water

Remember, some congressman wanted to ban sodium bicarbonate as it was useful to drug cooks! :( I think they should forbid that asshole from any baked goods made with sodium bicarbonate.




H2SO4 might have to come from roasting a sulfate salt, sulfur has been banned here as it is a precursor to explosives.
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Bert
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