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Author: Subject: Looking over the border: EU-Regulations
Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 09:41


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Not sure why everyone thinks the EU is one single entity.

Here in Spain you can go to any supermarket for 20% HCl, Distilled water and sodium hydroxide, all cheap.

At any Ironmongers' you can buy :-
1 litre 98% H2SO4 for 5 euros (also at a plumber's shop).
12% sodium hypochlorite (20 litres, 17 euros)

At a Garden Centre you can buy :-
Nitric Acid (min 30 litres, 9 euros)
Phosphoric acid (min 20 litres, 26 euros)
Potassium Nitrate (min 20kg)
Ammonium Nitrate (min 25kg)
Flowers of Sulphur (1 euro a kilo)
Cannabis seeds
Bee Hives
Live chickens

It is Illegal here to keep Bees without a licence, although you can have as many chickens as you like.

In the UK you'd be burnt at an equal-opportunities stake for trying to buy Any of those items !

Seems i can have some guns and ammo as well if i want, same as Switzerland, Germany, France, Austria etc.

(i don't want one because their single purpose it to just kill things)


Good for Spain. Just hope the creeping regulator prohibitionists don't get their hooks into liberty there. The suffocating effect of it is unmistakable when the imposed restrictions arrive. The effect is oppressive and it is a gradual thing where one by one things disappear from shelves.

As for guns, well target shooting involves no killing, but if killing should become necessary for food or survival needs otherwise, guns do have utility just like other useful tools fit for the task. Nobody's opinions changes that utility to nullify that fitness, and even though the most important purpose would be to kill things, there are times when that is precisely the correct action.
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XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 10:27


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
Young people of e.g. 2020 ... are put off.

Repression invariably leads to an excess of that (thing:implied)* you wish to repress.

May as well ban Sex or Breathing - people always find a way, because they want to do the things that they want to do.

[Edited on 26-3-2016 by aga]


I blame my parents for why I am so boring, they encouraged and gave me a very wide berth to do what I wanted, alcohol wasn't some evil substance, chem was encouraged as was building mechanics electronics.

So by the time I was 15 I had no desire to "party" drink or do drugs or any such thing, as it was nothing special or interesting, instead I was engineering electrochemicle cells and such :)

More you say it is bad the more they want to do it. So the choice is simple, have people doing things properly and safely and "Gasp" LEARNING or have people doing things wrong, dangerously and doing damage whilst learning nothing!
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 10:35


Quote: Originally posted by Chem Rage  
Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston  
At this rate, we'll soon have to resort to isolating everything from nature.
Back to the middle ages.

[Edited on 8-4-2016 by phlogiston]


It is very wrong to paint everyone with the same brush, which is exactly what these blanket bans and restrictions do. How patronising it is to be treated like a little kid who needs Nanny State to keep you safe :mad:


That's becuase we stopped natural selection, when you try to protect the stupid from them selfs we all lose out!

Soon it will be illegal to wipe your rear with out a permit and a safety course!
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 11:22


Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
More you say it is bad the more they want to do it. So the choice is simple, have people doing things properly and safely and "Gasp" LEARNING or have people doing things wrong, dangerously and doing damage whilst learning nothing!


Words of wisdom for the weekend. Especially the conclusion because that's when accidents happen !
(Which then of course brings us a harder legislation)
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 12:04


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
More you say it is bad the more they want to do it. So the choice is simple, have people doing things properly and safely and "Gasp" LEARNING or have people doing things wrong, dangerously and doing damage whilst learning nothing!


Words of wisdom for the weekend. Especially the conclusion because that's when accidents happen !
(Which then of course brings us a harder legislation)


Indeed it saved me allot being able to ask befor I tried some thing potentially dangerous, part of that is how I learned to all ways check my material compatibility befor making some thing.

When one can actually ask with out fearing being jailed or things taking away from them, they are much more inclined to ask, and with every question is an opportunity to educate!

As they learn and succeed the more they desire to learn more! This is how we make experts, soon we will have barely functioning dunces the way we punish curiosity, and discourage critical thinking.
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[*] posted on 7-5-2016 at 21:34


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Not sure why everyone thinks the EU is one single entity.
Here in Spain you can go to any supermarket for 20% HCl, Distilled water and sodium hydroxide, all cheap.


Fine and nice for you, but remember at the postings from woelen....the things can be go bad very fast....and look at the Art 18 of the regulation:

Quote:

Article 18 Review

1. By 2 September 2017, the Commission shall present a report to the European Parliament and to the Council examining:
(a) any problems that have arisen as a result of the application of this Regulation;
(b) the desirability and feasibility of further strengthening and harmonising the system in view of the threat to public security caused by terrorism and other serious criminal activities, taking into account the experience gained by Member States under this Regulation, including any detected security gaps, taking into account the costs and benefits for Member States, economic operators and other relevant stakeholders;
(c) the desirability and feasibility of extending the scope of this Regulation to cover professional users, taking into account the burdens imposed on economic operators and having regard to the objective of this Regulation;
(d) the desirability and feasibility of including non-scheduled explosives precursors in the provisions on reporting of suspicious transactions, disappearances and thefts.

2. By 2 March 2015, the Commission shall present a report to the European Parliament and to the Council examining the possibilities to transfer relevant provisions on ammonium nitrate from Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006 into this Regulation.

3. If appropriate, in the light of the reports referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2, the Commission shall submit a legislative proposal to the European Parliament and to the Council with a view to amending this Regulation accordingly.


So I think you are in a grace period at Spain....and have you cecked the Spanish government sites for new laws regarding this issue?

Bj68
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[*] posted on 16-6-2016 at 18:03
"It's time to start hoarding before TSCA kicks in"


This is the title of two letters submitted to the editor of today's Wall Street Journal. Here are two excerpts:

"...After all the glowing articles about the bipartisan revisions to the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), what this means is that they need to hustle to the nearest home center and purchase a lifetime supply of acetone, MEK, lacquer thinner, etc., as these products will start disappearing from store shelves due to our new enlightenment. I hope you don't need these products in the future. Steve Helmreich, Colorado Springs, Colo."

"Just because a thing is overwhelmingly bipartisan doesn't mean it is right or even good. The unelected "experts" at the EPA and related groups have been given even more power to control every inch of our existence - in the name of helping, of course. Michael Moussourakis, Long Island City, N.Y."

Edit 1:

Here's a paper that shows whats on TSCA's hit list. Note the table. I didn't see much that was of concern to me. I presume that the EPA is only concerned with these chemicals contained in consumer products. Ie, we will still be able to buy chemicals through suppliers like Elemental Scientific, LLC. Please correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-01/documents...

Some chemicals that jumped out at me:

TCE (already impossible or hard to get)
CCl4( " " " " )
benzene
cadmium & Cd compounds
chromium & Cr compounds
barium carbonate (wtf)
naphthalene
DCM

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by Magpie]

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by Magpie]




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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 04:22


Saw this on the DHS website.

image.jpg - 250kB
So it looks like we are going to let terrorism win by letting the actions of maniacs dictate what freedoms we are allowed. Sounds a lot like the reach program in the EU
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 08:50


I would hate to see the US go the way of the EU, but it probably will eventually.

Some day we are all going to have to make fundamental reagents ourselves from innocuous family friendly precursors.

Let's see where this might go:

1. nitric acid from air, water & electricity
2. acetone from rubbing alcohol
3. hydrogen peroxide from water & electricity (a guess)
4. NaOH and bleach from salt & electricity
5. H2SO4 from sulfur, air, and water

Remember, some congressman wanted to ban sodium bicarbonate as it was useful to drug cooks! :( I think they should forbid that asshole from any baked goods made with sodium bicarbonate.






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[*] posted on 14-9-2016 at 07:18


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I would hate to see the US go the way of the EU, but it probably will eventually.

Some day we are all going to have to make fundamental reagents ourselves from innocuous family friendly precursors.

Let's see where this might go:

1. nitric acid from air, water & electricity
2. acetone from rubbing alcohol
3. hydrogen peroxide from water & electricity (a guess)
4. NaOH and bleach from salt & electricity
5. H2SO4 from sulfur, air, and water

Remember, some congressman wanted to ban sodium bicarbonate as it was useful to drug cooks! :( I think they should forbid that asshole from any baked goods made with sodium bicarbonate.




H2SO4 might have to come from roasting a sulfate salt, sulfur has been banned here as it is a precursor to explosives.
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BJ68
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[*] posted on 4-2-2018 at 23:11


a) Overview:
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/crisis...

b)
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-is-new/work-in-progre...

Quote:
An open public consultation has been launched on the dedicated Commission website. The aim is to gather the views and concerns of all interested citizens, authorities and organisations. If you want to contribute to the open public consultation, please submit your reply by 14 February 2018.


Link to the survey:
https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/EUexplosivesprecursors


Edit: Have read the survey...heretic question (ketzerische Frage): Can it be that the questions in that survey are only in one direction?


Bj68




[Edited on 5-2-2018 by BJ68]
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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 06:31


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  

- a selection of very commonly used pure chemicals (e.g. graphite, methanol)

Graphite and methanol?? So we are saying goodbye to pencils and windscreen fluid??
Anyway, thank God that here in Romania people found a way to evade the EU restrictions: all shops which sell these regulated chemicals only market to professionals and call themselves "professional shops" even though they sell to individuals. For example, naphthalene and hydrochloric acid are no longer in the products they should be (moth balls, concrete etchants) and can't be found in big hardware stores, but you can buy them at these professional shops (called "metalo-chimice") under the chemical name, not the consumer name. The same goes for sodium carbonate, leaded solder, petroleum ether and many more.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 07:00


Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Quote: Originally posted by woelen  

- a selection of very commonly used pure chemicals (e.g. graphite, methanol)

Graphite and methanol?? So we are saying goodbye to pencils and windscreen fluid??



Presumably that is bulk industrial purchases of powdered graphite that will be banned for the general public.... not pencils, which are still legal as far as I can tell here in the UK. I don't think they have used methanol in screen wash for ages... they use IPA due to the fact it is non toxic.


All these restrictions are for the public's safety and are a good thing in general imo. I think they go to far with some of it.... the new TiO2 classification as a class 2B carcinogen for example is too much... It is based on a test in the 80's where TiO2 was injected into the blood of rats at high doses... the mice got tumours... but you get the same results with any non soluble powder - it isn't TiO2 exclusive. To ban it in paints (which is what they are talking about) is way too far and totally stupid presuming they haven't lied to us for decades about it's non hazardousness.. If you have to put a cancer warning on a tin of low VOC water based paint (which is harmless) then how will people know when to actually take a warning seriously when it really is a carcinogen? - where are all of the paint mixer workers with lung cancers then?.... apart from the smokers there aren't any.





[Edited on 24-4-2018 by DrP]




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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 07:54


I agree with the fact that the public should be protected, but that doesn't mean that even the ones aware of the dangers of the chemical (like us, amateur chemists) should not be allowed to buy it.

I think they also went too far by removing boron salts from shelves (as mentioned above).
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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 08:46


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
the mice got tumours

If I was experimenting on rats and ended up with mice I would put a warning on that chemical, tumors or not :-)





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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 09:31


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
I don't think they have used methanol in screen wash for ages... they use IPA due to the fact it is non toxic


My mum’s got a few new aerosol cans of screen wash/ice remover (I don’t drive so I have none of my own) and it definitely contains methanol alongside IPA, ammonia, and ethylene glycol:

https://travisperkins.scene7.com/is/content/travisperkins/Au...




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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 10:43


Have the bureaucrats in Europe all become paranoid cretins? Worse than the ones we have in California?

I used to work in a fine papermill where we made high grade paper for annual reports and advertising in magazines. TiO2 is an excellent brightener and opacifier. We used it by the ton, receiving it in 50 lb bags. It is also used in toothpaste as an abrasive.

I freely buy methanol sold as a gasoline deicer. In Minnesota I had my car come to a complete stop in an isolated area due to ice in my filter. My boss then advised me to add a pint of Heat at each fill up. I don't need it in Washington but it is readily available here also.

[Edited on 24-4-2018 by Magpie]




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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 12:25


Methanol still is available here, but only from chemical shops. You cannot find it anymore in hardware stores and other general consumer-oriented shops. The same is true for borates, boric acid and perborates. These disappeared well over a year ago. Again, these still can be purchased from chemical suppliers.

Remarkably, new chemicals are appearing as well. It becomes easier to find oxone and peroxodisulfates. Also all kinds of phosphorus compounds and elemental phosphorus itself (only the red variation) are becoming easier to obtain. So, it is not only bad news over here :)




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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 12:32


Last time i checked, it all seemed the same here.

No craziness in either chemical rules, people driving cars into crowds, blowing things up or shooting a lot.

USA & UK are kind of a linked unit, so maybe the US tries out experiments in the UK.

Very glad i left UK for ES.




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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 12:53


I buy sodium borate decahydrate as a laundry aid in 5 lb boxes. It's great for washing your hands after working on greasy car parts.

There's no reason to restrict phosphorus in the US anymore. Those that want to make methamphetamine don't use it. But once a law gets on the books the bureaucrats never take it off. There's hardly any homemade meth, at least where I live. Mexican super-labs make it much more efficiently. So why bother.




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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 12:57


Sadly over there in the "Land of the Free" they use the meth excuse to make you less free, day by day.

The evidence points to the US Gov being in collusion with the Mexican super labs.

[Edited on 24-4-2018 by aga]




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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 02:31


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Last time i checked, it all seemed the same here.

No craziness in either chemical rules, people driving cars into crowds, blowing things up or shooting a lot.

USA & UK are kind of a linked unit, so maybe the US tries out experiments in the UK.

Very glad i left UK for ES.


Spain is full of its own problems... and ex pat Brits. My next door neighbour keeps harping on about how she loves it there and wants to go there to stay.... she says there are too many foreigners here and the UK is sinking... I wish she would just fuck off to Spain too with her ignorant brexiteering and anti foreigner fear mongering. She won't be happy wherever she ends up, she'll always find something to moan about or an immigrant to blame all of her woes on.




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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 03:43


How ironic, the one complaining about foreigners ‘invading’ the UK wants to become a foreigner herself.



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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 04:06


Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur  
How ironic, the one complaining about foreigners ‘invading’ the UK wants to become a foreigner herself.



A lot of these Brits abroad are staunch brexiteers that are happy to be immigrants in another country but complain and moan (usually using false statistics or even blatantly invented on the spot ones) about immigrants that are 'coming over here, taking our jobs, spreading TB, raping and mugging, selling drugs..etc' - You get shit in any community - I guess they just pick a scape goat or something - it is depressing. They get VERY angry about immigrants and immigration and anyone (bleeding heart libtards especially) who suggests that they check their supposed 'facts'. They cannot seem to comprehend ANY positives from immigration at all. More people than you think believe all this (mainly because they read it in 'The Sun' or 'The Daily Mail' who seem to delight in spinning headlines to enrage the public).... I have 2 sets of friends and they are both in their own echo bubbles for info - half of them couldn't imagine why anyone could or even would vote to stay in the EU and those that can't comprehend why people would vote to leave unless they are totally racist.

I cant talk to the leavers without being called a Libtard or a bleeding heart that has been brainwashed by University and education, a traitor even and a ****** lover (some of these people are parents and actively encourage their children to get into trouble and to make trouble at school)... and if I even dare to mention the concerns of the right wingers about immigration to try and get some middle ground for the two side to talk on then I get labelled a racist by the left wingers and an idiot for even talking to people who hold these views... more people hold these right wing views than people think, probably because their beliefs are backed up by the news headlines and their mates. A plague on both your houses!





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