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Author: Subject: Endanger of being shut down?
MadHatter
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[*] posted on 4-8-2004 at 19:47
Forums


It doesn't make any sense that terrorists would even care about these
forums. They don't seem to have a problem getting ready-made
explosives, such as C-4 and Semtex, or RPGs, AK-47s, etc.. They don't
need these forums.




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tom haggen
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[*] posted on 4-8-2004 at 22:07


It seems to me that sometimes before when roguesci was down, the message “domain suspended,” was never displayed before. The fact that it says domain suspended just raised some red flags in my head, and that’s why I started this post. However, I know next to nothing about web administration so it's kind of a stab in the dark. But with all the skepticism surrounding this thread I'm glad I started it. By the way, if that wasn't nbk posting that message, it was someone who knows his style to the "T."
What about rhadon? Isn't he a member on this site? Maybe he could come forward..


[Edited on 5-8-2004 by tom haggen]

[Edited on 5-8-2004 by tom haggen]




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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 20:01


If Rogue Sci isn’t back up by September, I think we can assume it’s gone, and measures should be taken both to create a new one, and to reinforce Mad Sci. I see steps have already been taken to back up this forum, and this is good. I would also advise the mods here to be careful, and pgp anything on their computers that could be seen in as ‘controversial’. Think about it, has anyone heard from any of the Rouge Sci mods? Rhadon was a active member here and I have yet to see him since E&W went down, not that it’s really been down that long (If the American authorities got to Rhadon, then we all have something very large to worry about, he’s half way across the world.) But we have heard nothing, no email, no posts, not a word. One would think Mega would have sent an email to Polverone or Vulture saying ‘heads up’ or ‘it’s just a misunderstanding, everything’s cool’ but no news is starting to get me worried.

If come September, we haven’t heard anything from Rogue Sci, a new one must be created, if not out of necessity then out of principle. If ‘they’ get away with 404ing one site, then they may do it elsewhere. So, if one of the old mods can be contacted, I think the groundwork should be laid for a new forum. As far as a new ISP, I think, nasty as it sounds, that an ISP that hosts porn sites would be a good choice. They clearly have no problems hosting ‘questionable’ material and would most likely defend their customer’s privacy pretty well. Everything should also be offshore, ISP and the guy paying.

My money is still on the outage being some misunderstanding with the ISP, or forgetting to get the domain renewed. But I think it’s necessary to prepare for the worst case scenario.

PS
I have been searching allot all over the internet for mention of it going down but there isn’t anything. You would think this is the kind of thing the government would flaunt, as they know as well as we do that a forum like this isn’t a threat, thus the only reason they would take it down would be to get reelected, and for that, they need the people to know they did it.

Oh, and who actually has the Rouge Sci ftp? One way or another that should be backed up too.

I know Mad Sci doesn’t like being used as a ‘help desk’ for Rouge Sci, hopefully this can be cleared up soon:(




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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 20:24
RogueScience


Hang-Man, that's an excellent idea about getting RogueScience on an
ISP that hosts porn. You're right - they wouldn't give a shit as long as
they're making money ! Still, the silence is deafening. I'm hoping that
e-mails will be sent out to let us know what happened.




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Sarevok
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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 20:37


It would be unwise to do so. Porn is a thing, a licit thing. Homemade explosives and chemical weapons are another thing, an illicit thing. No one is going to be jailed for hosting porn pictures (perhaps only in China :)) but anyone can be jailed for hosting "bombmaking recipes".

Soon webpages such as roguesci and madsci will not exist anymore, unfortunately. From my short personal experience, the only thing that I can say about this world is that it is looking more and more like Orwell's 1984. Most people are unaware of the fact that their freedom is being taken away because they're too busy watching TV. There is no hope.

[Edited on 6/8/2004 by Sarevok]




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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 21:33
Illicit ?


In the U.S., the Sherman Austin case comes to mind, it is illegal
to post instructions on bomb making if the site also advocates violence
against the U.S. government. Without advocating violence, I'm not
not so sure that anything can be done - at least legally. Sites like
RogueScience would have shut down long ago if that was the case.
The speculation is that the DoD leaned on RogueScience's web host
because pro-jihad sites posted a link to the site. I view this action as
illegal and reeking of actions by politicians who want to scapegoat us to
prove they're tough on terrorism. I wish the terrorists would post links
to TOTSE. Then maybe they would get killed just by following the
instructions over there.




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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 22:12


I know nothing of the US laws but, where I live, it IS illegal to talk about explosives's manufacture or any other thing talked about on Roguesci, no matter if you promote violence or not. If things are different in other countries, I bet this is a temporary situation.



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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 22:22


About the roguesci mods; I saw rhadon's username on the "who's online" box today, and have seen Nick F on many times and even U2U'd him when I initially found out roguesci was down.
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[*] posted on 5-8-2004 at 23:00
back up


I have backed-up the explosives synthesis section at mega's chem lab. I wish I would have downloaded the entire site. Anyway should I zip it and upload to the scimadness FTP? Or am I allowed to do that? I believe that unless all the mods were arrested (highly doubtful) that it will be back up. I know Rhadon is still around because Boomer talked to him in email, to see what was going on.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 10:37


Using a porn site server is a bad idea out of principle. We aren't porn people. We're scientists. I hope... I hate the idea of being part of a site which assists pornographers!

I think the best solution may be to check out the laws in the US or wherever the server is, and make sure everything is legal. If so, it'll be harder to destroy this site, but not much. :(

I have a idea, we could find an island no one has been on before, (or conquer one;)) call it the country of Sciencetopia, and put the server there...:D

We also might want to edit out anything that could convict us of encouraging violence against the US.:(




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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 15:24
Illegal


Sarevok, I'm sorry to hear that it is illegal in your country. Is enforcement of
those laws really rigorous ? It sounds like your politicians may actually
be worse than ours. That's a depressing thought. Anyway, I'll still poke
around on the net looking for any information about RogueScience. There
has to be a way to keep forums like this one up and running even if it
means encrypting the whole thing to keep the LEOs from casual
snooping.




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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 18:32
Wow! look at this!


Although I really don't want to contribute to the paranoia... but have a look at this. It's shocking!

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/antiterror...

Particularly shutdowns for reasons such as this: "Rage Against The Machine" fan discussion forum was shutdown
"Because the FBI called the ISP, saying there was too much anti-American rhetoric on that board" Guerrilla News, October 29, 2001


Where's the freedom of speech gone? Is this the age of censoring? VERY worrisome indeed :(

[Edited on 7-8-2004 by chemoleo]




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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 19:27


I see one of the stories at chemleo's link has this about google: "since September 11, certain 'offensive' pages are un-cached and they are no longer available for viewing."

I wonder who deems what to be offensive or not.

Still, that got me thinking about accessing cached roguesci pages at google by searching for terms that I remember, like nbk's location being the 'shrine of the elder gods' resulting in:

This page

With nbk's PGP finger print:

A30B E78F C8C1 0626 C4DA C90D 95A2 B9E5 D578 AE65

For the chem lab cached pages search for Megalomania's and the desired compound as the search terms and you should get the page you desire (not tried with all compounds).

I hope this helps fellow roguesci members get their fix, and someone may be able to make use of nbk's PGP key - I'm assuming that's the one people are after.

[Edited on 7-8-2004 by unicorn]
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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 19:34
Censoring


Unicorn, I went to that site and what the U.S. government is doing is deplorable.
OK, so when does the government sponsored book-burning begin ?




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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 20:50


I found an archive of some of roguesci's forums from 2001.
http://odin.prohosting.com/~forumtwo/index.html
Not everything is there but still could have some use.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 21:03


Quote:
I hope this helps fellow roguesci members get their fix, and someone may be able to make use of nbk's PGP key - I'm assuming that's the one people are after.

Actually, NBK doesn't use that key anymore. It expired some time ago.

Quote:
Sarevok, I'm sorry to hear that it is illegal in your country. Is enforcement of
those laws really rigorous ? It sounds like your politicians may actually
be worse than ours.

It is. If you open a website such as Roguesci, you will be jailed in a day or two. Of course they are not going to track all the owners of very small, unknow sites.
Our politicians? One, called Hildebrando Pascoal, was jailed because he killed some of his adversaries with a chainsaw! Thanks to the government, 30% of the GDP is taxes. 40 years ago this place was a military dictatorship. And so on...

PS: I know a lot of people here don't like NBK, but I would like to tell you that, one or two years ago, NBK warned us of the "book burning", when webpages would be deleted, and all kind of "dangerous" knowledge would dissappear. And this is happening now.

[Edited on 7/8/2004 by Sarevok]




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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 22:14
Book Burning


Sarevok, if politicians killed only each other that may not be a
bad thing. Unfortunately, like the drug gangs in my country, they
usually kill innocent people in the process. If RogueScience
doesn't come back, one of things I will surely miss is NBK's
occasional "rants". They always were an interesting read.
It looks like the Patriot Act is the modern tool for book burning
and witch hunts.




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[*] posted on 6-8-2004 at 22:21


Anyone notice that 'nbk' visits daily?

Assuming that your daily visitor counter is accurate that is.




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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 06:00


I'm sorry "nbk2000". I asked a PGP signed message and you didn't post it. Perhaps you lost the password to the Whimsy section?

You know what the real NBK would do to an impostor, don't you?

[Edited on 8/8/2004 by Sarevok]




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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 06:46


Just a thought but perhaps the roguesci people themselves decided to kill it.
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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 09:49


No that wouldn't happen, not like this.
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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 12:33


I've recieved signs of life from 4 roguesci mods. I must say all of them are in europe though...

The admins don't seem to deny or confirm anything though...




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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 13:22
Future of this kinda information


I will gladly mirror the FTP server's contents and mass-download any of the website's containing archives for roguesci posts. I am my 'own isp' as such, so would have time to protect the content should I get any unwelcome contact.

Also, was pondering on the feasability of creating a distributed message system, similar in operation to NNTP (usenet) but with local client caches and shared posts. PGP has a nice API available to do most common PGP operations, so each post could be digitally signed, and so forth.

This way we take the power out of the hands of the webhost, and I daresay even if one or two users get shut down (ISP issues), then more servers can be loaded easily enough, each linking to another and mirroring their content.

Just an idea, but I must say, I'm rather concerned as to the future of websites providing such a wealth of interesting information. If we can somehow preserve the future of the availability of such information (in similar way as the way napster was shut down, but DirectConnect server's wont be - another just springs up), then perhaps it would be wise to look into doing so as soon as possible.

Just my two cents!
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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 18:27


roguesci ftp is gone as well now - bah
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[*] posted on 8-8-2004 at 21:37


Someone mentioned to me something about this fiasco and they believe it has happened because of an alleged explosives encyclopedia which was distributed around the net with references to their website.

Obviously it has impacted many members of the site who frequent here also. It does seem rather strange that there has been little word from the administrators of the roguescience website considering that some do visit here often as a few members say.

It seems websites containing anything the least bit controversial, whether it be political, scientific or moralistic in nature are going the way of the dodo:(.

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by Ium]
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