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blogfast25
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Sure but what method do you use?
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Zombie
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I don't understand the question sir.
What method did I use for what?
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Magpie
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I'm guessing he uses his hydrometers, right?
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Zombie
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For testing ABV, Breathalyzers...
Yes, a Hydrometer. Calibrated at 60*f, and always tested at the correct temp rather than doing Temp. correction formulas.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  |
For testing ABV, Breathalyzers...
Yes, a Hydrometer. Calibrated at 60*f, and always tested at the correct temp rather than doing Temp. correction formulas. |
Breathalizers for alcohol by volume? Explain, please.
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Zombie
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It was a joke.
I posted a few posts back the equipment. You must have missed it.
" I have a Chase Inst. hydrometer calibrated at 60*f, and use a Kessler -20*C / +150* C thermometer.
My runs begin @ 80% abv, and I stop @ 20% abv.
Average or final proof @ 100."
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blogfast25
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Fahrenheit should be banned. 
Proof @ 100 in the US means 50 % by ABV, correct?
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Zombie
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Correct.
I'll work on the Fahrenheit usage.
I expert your results will yield similar ABV readings.
The single pot distillation usually begins @ 60% ABV, and stopping at 20% ABV yields 40 ABV average.
But the 60% ABV initial reading drops very quickly in a single pot so the end result is usually closer to 30% ABV.
The thump tends to stabilize the run, and compress the fractions, much the same a a plate in a column will.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Zombie]
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blogfast25
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Ta.
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Zombie
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Buonanotte...
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Zom.
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blogfast25
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Iraliano, Signore? Meraviglioso!
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Luke
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Zombie- How accurate is a alcometer (hydrometer) to measure abv if temp fluctuates 5C? Its usually around 20-30C here and i just measure at ambient.
Also, how accurate are the alchol refractometers? They are pretty cheap here as well.
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Zombie
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Sono cresciuto in Yonkers NY , e il mio quartiere era 1/2 italiano , e 1/2 irlandese .
Led ad una infanzia dura ...
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Luke | Zombie- How accurate is a alcometer (hydrometer) to measure abv if temp fluctuates 5C? Its usually around 20-30C here and i just measure at ambient.
Also, how accurate are the alchol refractometers? They are pretty cheap here as well. |
Every hydrometer (worth the cost) will come with a Temp. conversion chart. I used a cheep meter for a short time, and found it was 3 points off at
70*f (21* C).
You can also order them set / calibrated to specific ambient temps. but it is best to chill the product / sample to whatever the calibration point of
the meter is.
I have never used a refractometer for Alch levels but I do use one for sugar content. You have to know the mash conversion ratio to judge the yield.
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blogfast25
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The one we have in mind is advertised as 1 ABV % error. But we'll find out exactly before we use it, experimentally, before we measure the
thumper/no thumper comparison.
Whether or not 1 % is good enough resolution will depend largely on two factors:
1. repeatability of each measurement
2. spread (or range) of ABV readings over the runs, known also in Statistical Mathematics as 'variation' or 'total variation'
This will be handled very carefully, trust me on that.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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Zyklon-A
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I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm trying to understand what the exact problem is.
Are you (Blogfast) saying that a thumper can't increase the alcohol concentration, or that it can't be energy efficient? Or both?
Because the latter is obvious. If it distills it twice, it needs the energy added twice. But as for increasing the conc., why can't that work? If 80%
ETOH and 20% water enters the thumper, which we'll say is saturated, the water will condense first right? So if the temperature of the thumper is
around ETOH's boiling point, most ETOH won't condense, but the water will.
Also, since most ETOH doesn't condense you won't have to add twice the energy, just a little more. As the water condenses it adds energy to the ETOH
(well the solution as a whole), if energy is added fast enough, then the gaseous water and liquid ETOH in solution will change places no?
H2O (g) + ETOH (aq) --> H2O (l) + ETOH (g) + 1,405 J/gram
Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread with already stated/debunked pseudoscience, just my two cents.
From here | Quote: |
Though "thumper kegs" are sound in principle and do raise proof, they are very energy-inefficient. Still designers discovered that the enrichment
process could be more effectively accomplished by stacking one still atop another. This technique is called the pipe column.
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God bless you, I hope so too.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Zyklon-A]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Zyklon-A | I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm trying to understand what the exact problem is.
Are you (Blogfast) saying that a thumper can't increase the alcohol concentration, or that it can't be energy efficient? Or both?
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Zyklon, I've explained my position probably about 20 times now and have heard yours equally often. I'm not about to repeat myself one more time.
Don't take that the wrong way. 
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
The one we have in mind is advertised as 1 ABV % error. But we'll find out exactly before we use it, experimentally, before we measure the
thumper/no thumper comparison.
Whether or not 1 % is good enough resolution will depend largely on two factors:
1. repeatability of each measurement
2. spread (or range) of ABV readings over the runs, known also in Statistical Mathematics as 'variation' or 'total variation'
This will be handled very carefully, trust me on that.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by blogfast25] |
100% faith in you fellas.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
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aga
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Keep the faith going !
Blogfast25 has roped me in to do the dirty work, as he's currently 100% committed to skiiving.
Here's the photos of what Bloggers and i think will provide a fair approximation of a Thumper, using standard glassware.
The missing bits are the 500ml RBF on the Left, which will replace the 250ml one, a 24 to 19 reducer for the stillhead on the right, and a 19
thermometer adapter where the plug is on the left hand neck of the 3-neck RBF.
The 'Thumper' comprises a 3-neck 250ml RBF, with the centre neck taking the vac adapter coming from the boiling pot (the vac takeoff will be
stoppered).
The glass tube inside the vac adpater has been lengthened by adding some tubing to hold on another length of glass tube, cut to length so it almost
touches the bottom of of the RBF.
The missing bits & refractometer are all on order, so we are currently waiting for the postman.
Any thoughts or suggestions ?
 
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Crowfjord
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Hey, alright! That's almost exactly of what I was thinking of doing, too! I think I'm going to use a 2000 mL RBF for the boiler and a 1000 mL one for
the thumper, though. Since I only have one still head, I figured I would use the vacuum adapter of the take-off as the outlet to the condenser.
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aga
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One stillhead ?
Perhaps you're more careful with your glass than i am ...
Get a spare rig :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500ml-Glass-Distilling-kit-Chemist...
£41 all-in. Quality is actually rather good.
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Zombie
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I believe that will work perfectly.
Key to the thumper is having the vapor inlet as close to the bottom as can be done. In fact touching the bottom is the way a proper thump is run. It
creates smaller bubbles, and allows for more vapor / liquid interaction.
An experienced distiller has no need for a thermometer because we judge Temp. by product out put,
In this case it may help you to install a thermometer in the boiler to monitor temp. You will see the temp rise as the EtOH is evacuated.
Rule of thumb is the temp will hit approx 208 at or near the same time as the product out is at or near 20% ABV. This is just a guide, and not set in
stone.
Thank you for jumping in on this Mr. Aga.
Mr. Crowfjord, I appreciate your interest as well. Two independent attempts at this can only help solidify the findings.
If the refractometers don't work out... Shake a bottle!
Thank you fellas!
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aga
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208 is a lot of centigrade, so i assume you mean Farenheit ( or 97C).
That implies it's the liquid temperature rather than the Vapor temperature, which is what i watch in normal distillations.
For the experiment, there will hopefully be 3 thermometers: 1 for each stillhead for the Vapor temperatures, and one in the Thumper Liquid.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by aga]
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aga
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| Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | | Key to the thumper is having the vapor inlet as close to the bottom as can be done. In fact touching the bottom is the way a proper thump is run. It
creates smaller bubbles, and allows for more vapor / liquid interaction. |
If i'd have known that, i'd have ordered a frit as well !
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | | Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | | Key to the thumper is having the vapor inlet as close to the bottom as can be done. In fact touching the bottom is the way a proper thump is run. It
creates smaller bubbles, and allows for more vapor / liquid interaction. |
If i'd have known that, i'd have ordered a frit as well ! |
Stuff some glass wool into the tube. It will help to disperse the gas.
(EDIT)
Hell, since we are doing it thumper-style, wrap any sort of non-reactive meshing around the end of the tube. Anything that can force gas bubbles to
burst as they exit the down tube.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Loptr]
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