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Author: Subject: UK legal disposal of banned substances.
DrP
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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 02:44


Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose  
i refer specifically to UK law, while it is based on EU law i dont know how these differ. i speak only about UK law and it appears that they might


EU law IS UK law. REACH is the law regarding chemicals and registration of - it outlines direction for the writing of SDSs etc. IDK if it says anything about private people owning chems though.

IDK if the UK has and EXTRA laws it has introduced on top of REACH - I doubt it.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 04:08


For me things are quite simple. I have a hobby. If I have to read hundreds of pages of legal rules about how to label things, how to store things, how to use things, and so on, then I have no fun anymore and then I will quit. I use common sense and have taken the following measures:
- fire fighting equipment in the lab (sand, CO2-extinguisher, running water, a blanket). This set can handle many different kinds of fire.
- storage: acids together, oxidizers together, separate from other stuff, corrosive stuff like acyl chlorides together. Bulk amounts of flammables (liter bottles) are not stored in the lab, but in our garage, which is not in the house. Other chemicals grouped according to some list, so that I can find them quickly again by looking up the list.
- experimenting: use microscale, test tubes instead of jars. This saves money and produces less waste.
- waste: solvents I evaporate in air, outside. Because I work on a microscale, I seldomly evaporate more than a few ml. Heavy metal waste I collect and bring to a municipal processing facility. Same for toxic less volatile organics. Rest of waste goes down the drain with lots of water.
- I try to keep my lab clean. No dust on workbenches and floor. Only few open shelves, nearly all my stuff is in a more or less dust-free storage.

With this kind of common sense I can keep my hobby safe and I am doing this already for 30 years or so and never had a bad accident. The worst things I had were broken glass, little burns on the hand (less than half a square cm) or small cuts from sharp items, while I have been experimenting quite intensely, at high frequency.

I respect all the effort some members over here put in getting info about all rules, but that is not my thing. If I happened to have a company, making a profit of my lab, then of course it would be different, but now I just am interested in the science and use common sense and caution when it comes to safety, clean working and causing as little as possible environmental strain. If authorities really would pursue me and force me to adhere strictly to all kinds of regulations like REACH, then I will quit and find another science hobby (e.g. electronics, mathematics).

The few chemicals which are not allowed anymore because of the explosives precursors law I do not buy anymore, nor do I have them in stock in bigger quantities. I can make K/NaClO3 myself by electrolysis, the same for K/NaClO4 from legal NH4ClO4, the same for HNO3 by distillation and I can concentrate 12% H2O2 to well above 20% without too much trouble. That is enough for me. I work in small scale, so no need for a liter or a kilo of these chemicals. 50 ml of self-distilled HNO3 or 100 grams of home made KClO3 (from KCl) goes a long way in my lab. The only difficult thing is CH3NO2, this is not easily made at home. It be so.




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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 06:42


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
For me things are quite simple. I have a hobby. If I have to read hundreds of pages of legal rules about how to label things, how to store things, how to use things, and so on, then I have no fun anymore and then I will quit. I use common sense and have taken the following measures:
- fire fighting equipment in the lab (sand, CO2-extinguisher, running water, a blanket). This set can handle many different kinds of fire.
- storage: acids together, oxidizers together, separate from other stuff, corrosive stuff like acyl chlorides together. Bulk amounts of flammables (liter bottles) are not stored in the lab, but in our garage, which is not in the house. Other chemicals grouped according to some list, so that I can find them quickly again by looking up the list.
- experimenting: use microscale, test tubes instead of jars. This saves money and produces less waste.
- waste: solvents I evaporate in air, outside. Because I work on a microscale, I seldomly evaporate more than a few ml. Heavy metal waste I collect and bring to a municipal processing facility. Same for toxic less volatile organics. Rest of waste goes down the drain with lots of water.
- I try to keep my lab clean. No dust on workbenches and floor. Only few open shelves, nearly all my stuff is in a more or less dust-free storage.

With this kind of common sense I can keep my hobby safe and I am doing this already for 30 years or so and never had a bad accident. The worst things I had were broken glass, little burns on the hand (less than half a square cm) or small cuts from sharp items, while I have been experimenting quite intensely, at high frequency.

I respect all the effort some members over here put in getting info about all rules, but that is not my thing. If I happened to have a company, making a profit of my lab, then of course it would be different, but now I just am interested in the science and use common sense and caution when it comes to safety, clean working and causing as little as possible environmental strain. If authorities really would pursue me and force me to adhere strictly to all kinds of regulations like REACH, then I will quit and find another science hobby (e.g. electronics, mathematics).

The few chemicals which are not allowed anymore because of the explosives precursors law I do not buy anymore, nor do I have them in stock in bigger quantities. I can make K/NaClO3 myself by electrolysis, the same for K/NaClO4 from legal NH4ClO4, the same for HNO3 by distillation and I can concentrate 12% H2O2 to well above 20% without too much trouble. That is enough for me. I work in small scale, so no need for a liter or a kilo of these chemicals. 50 ml of self-distilled HNO3 or 100 grams of home made KClO3 (from KCl) goes a long way in my lab. The only difficult thing is CH3NO2, this is not easily made at home. It be so.

I fully understand your position and reasons.

My effort regarding the law is based on fear, we do infact have different laws to the EU.

What most are unaware of is the details of the counter terrorism act, to be blunt........There is little you can do that you cannot be arrested for on the grounds of suspected terrorism.

The Laws that were recently toughened when DC was prime minster,. put the icing on the cake. In the UL the authorities dont need a warrant to listen to your phone call, read your email etc.

Every call you make or email you write of every web page you visit is recorded. Every person is recorded on camera o minimum of 200+ times a day.

I am testing the rules and seeing how they are applied, i am trying to see who applies them and what we can do safely.

So far its starting to look like the system is a complete mess, the best we can do is find out where the line is drawn, this is different from the actual rules. Also while we do use REACH for industry, REACH has no protection inside the UK, it is the anti terror laws that will be used to limit sodium hydroxide etc.

Nothing actually needs to be done, all they intend to do is restrict who suppliers can supply to, then prosecute and jail any suppliers who dont comply. Hence our recent friends experience.

Woelen I am almost 100% sure where you live, common sense prevails. I dont see the same fear of terror there or the governments desire to know how many shits a day you take.

I am reading transcripts of speeches in parliament by Nick Clegg, these were when he was in coalition. Hansard or whtever they call it is also useful. It appears the Lib Dems had legit fears about our human rights, its a real shame they didnt explain the consequences properly.

I sound like a nutter, i am aware of this. But the more i dig the more horrified i am, i was pro Brexit, i have changed my mind based purely on the human rights court.

Seriously as mad as it sounds, that aint no light at the end of the tunnel, thats a fucking train coming.
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[*] posted on 16-1-2018 at 17:29


First time I feel lucky living in the USA. I hope you guys won't lose this intriguing hobby that is amateur chemistry over there in the UK and the EU. Really wish chemophobia wasn't so prevalent in the world today as it was decades ago.



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