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Author: Subject: Tracking EBAY sales
Aristocles
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[*] posted on 3-11-2007 at 21:12


Displiceo, for reviving this, but I am new. :cool:

The term "Threshhold" weight/volume is the 'legal' amount or the amount allowed, sans reporting, to be imported/exported or sold domestically (depending on the chart heading)?

I think I understand but I'm a bit confused by this: "(g) of this section, the following thresholds will apply for the following List I chemicals that are contained in drug products that are regulated pursuant to Sec. 1300.02(b)(28)(i)(D) of this chapter
(thresholds for retail distributors and distributors required to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of this part are for a single transaction; the cumulative threshold provision does not apply. All other distributions are subject to the cumulative threshold provision"

Perhaps everything on the list is reported?

[Edited on 3-11-2007 by Aristocles]




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[*] posted on 3-11-2007 at 21:41
Reporting


You can count on it ! I would assume that any List I purchase will be reported.
The seller would probably do it to cover his/her ass !

[Edited on 2007/11/4 by MadHatter]




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[*] posted on 17-11-2007 at 06:18


Is eBay even safe to use in general? Are activities tracked?
That's starting to become a question with powerful validity when we hear about the arrest of a young man specifically from the tracking of his eBay purchases.
http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070928/NEWS01/70928010

The Nevada youth bought a scale commonly associated with "drug sales" (a common triple beam chemical scale) it "flagged" something / someone in that fellow's state (or some federal entity; perhaps the flagging is much more intense than first surmised...) & an investigation was initiated. In this case the young man DID have a gram of methamphetamine when he was interviewed by the authorities and was arrested, etc.

Personally, I don't like eBay's way of doing things; I never had. I have had many friends that have used eBay and a few that bought science related materials from it. However I would NOT buy anything that could be misconstrued from eBay. It seems that from their perspective, you are guilty until proven innocent.

I think I may do an experiment in writing scripted web searches and track eBay related arrests for a month and see if there is any true cause for concern other than a guess. AP wire & Nexus had multiple hits but I didn't check them out. I am aware that it's easy to find an eBay arrest that has a science related element to it simply by searching most any engine with "eBay, arrest, chemicals" - THAT is not a good sign.



[Edited on 17-11-2007 by quicksilver]
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[*] posted on 17-11-2007 at 09:22


Quote:
Originally posted by quicksilver
Is eBay even safe to use in general? Are activities tracked?
That's starting to become a question with powerful validity when we hear about the arrest of a young man specifically from the tracking of his eBay purchases.
http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070928/NEWS01/70928010

The Nevada youth bought a scale commonly associated with "drug sales" (a common triple beam chemical scale) it "flagged" something / someone in that fellow's state (or some federal entity; perhaps the flagging is much more intense than first surmised...) & an investigation was initiated. In this case the young man DID have a gram of methamphetamine when he was interviewed by the authorities and was arrested, etc.

Personally, I don't like eBay's way of doing things; I never had. I have had many friends that have used eBay and a few that bought science related materials from it. However I would NOT buy anything that could be misconstrued from eBay. It seems that from their perspective, you are guilty until proven innocent.

I think I may do an experiment in writing scripted web searches and track eBay related arrests for a month and see if there is any true cause for concern other than a guess. AP wire & Nexus had multiple hits but I didn't check them out. I am aware that it's easy to find an eBay arrest that has a science related element to it simply by searching most any engine with "eBay, arrest, chemicals" - THAT is not a good sign.



[Edited on 17-11-2007 by quicksilver]


I would say that this "1.6 grams of methamphetamine" had a lot more to do with her arrest than the scale. The scale simply allows for more charges. Face it, if someone makes or sells drugs they are eventually going to get caught. When they get caught the autorities will use every charge legally available to them. It isn't a winning game.

Joe
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[*] posted on 17-11-2007 at 10:54


From Joe:

Quote:

I would say that this "1.6 grams of methamphetamine" had a lot more to do with her arrest than the scale. The scale simply allows for more charges. Face it, if someone makes or sells drugs they are eventually going to get caught. When they get caught the autorities will use every charge legally available to them. It isn't a winning game.


I think you are missing the point here. To me the point is that by simply buying a triple beam balance off eBay you may be investigated.

Now I ask you, isn't that pretty flimsy grounds for investigating someone? I can't even begin to count how many legitimate uses there are for a triple beam balance.

What's next? "Police investigate 50 year old man for buying coffee filters at Safeway."




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[*] posted on 17-11-2007 at 11:54


I wonder if he was simply reported for a scale of he had been buying drug precursors or something that they took notice of on ebay previously?


Quote:

The Nevada youth bought a scale commonly associated with "drug sales" (a common triple beam chemical scale)

What the hell is this? Is a simple scale now drug paraphernalia to the media?:mad:



I was curious so I looked at what I could come up with arrests relating to ebay.

(Different guy)
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,D...
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/08/cops-ecstasy-la...

Quote:

Morever, he used the address freebasing@hotmail.com for his eBay and PayPal accounts

:o this made me laugh....what a moron




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[*] posted on 17-11-2007 at 19:08


Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie
From Joe:

Quote:

I would say that this "1.6 grams of methamphetamine" had a lot more to do with her arrest than the scale. The scale simply allows for more charges. Face it, if someone makes or sells drugs they are eventually going to get caught. When they get caught the autorities will use every charge legally available to them. It isn't a winning game.


I think you are missing the point here. To me the point is that by simply buying a triple beam balance off eBay you may be investigated.

Now I ask you, isn't that pretty flimsy grounds for investigating someone? I can't even begin to count how many legitimate uses there are for a triple beam balance.

What's next? "Police investigate 50 year old man for buying coffee filters at Safeway."


Maybe we are missing each other's point. She wasn't arrested because she had a scale. She was arrested because she had a controlled substance with the intent to sell it. The scale was icing on the cake.

If you own a scale and are selling meth you can bet they will use it against you.

Joe
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[*] posted on 18-11-2007 at 05:56


The concept I am introducing is that eBay "puts it's nose into your business". That fact that the arrest was augmented by the possession of a scale is of little importance but the fact that eBay made efforts [to produce tracking] of buying behaviour for the authorities; that is reprehensible.
What right does eBay have to make any determination that a scale or for that matter anything will be used in an anti-social manner? Do they "have an obligation" to report such sales?
With their nanny-state mentality firmly guiding them, eBay makes determinations for the public welfare....what a crock or shit! But more importantly, how dangerous this can be for the truly innocent that (on paper) looks to be nefarious.
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[*] posted on 18-11-2007 at 06:06


Quote:
Originally posted by quicksilver
The concept I am introducing is that eBay "puts it's nose into your business". That fact that the arrest was augmented by the possession of a scale is of little importance but the fact that eBay made efforts [to produce tracking] of buying behaviour for the authorities; that is reprehensible.
What right does eBay have to make any determination that a scale or for that matter anything will be used in an anti-social manner? Do they "have an obligation" to report such sales?
With their nanny-state mentality firmly guiding them, eBay makes determinations for the public welfare....what a crock or shit! But more importantly, how dangerous this can be for the truly innocent that (on paper) looks to be nefarious.


I have read the article twice and see no reference to ebay. Is there another article related to this story?

Joe
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[*] posted on 19-11-2007 at 02:54


I apologize, there was another earlier article listed in the Nevada Appeal that spoke of the sale being from eBay. Unfortunately I referenced the later article in the OP where eBay is not listed, etc.
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[*] posted on 19-11-2007 at 19:19
Scale


It doesn't matter who did the ratting. The fact is triple-beam scales are common in the
drug trade. I can buy one OTC without drawing suspicion but the nosy nanny, we
know as eBay is eager to please the LEOs.




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[*] posted on 19-11-2007 at 21:38


So, how does someone who wants to make soap or cosmetics buy a scale off eBay without getting investigated by the police?

If certain items are offensive to the employees of ebay why don't they just forbid their sale? By allowing sale then informing LE of the identity of the buyer it seems as if eBay is attempting "entrapment."

It is very strange to me that buying a triple beam balance is adequate justification for a judge to issue a search warrant.




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[*] posted on 21-11-2007 at 21:39


Well it could be that the seller was a LEO.
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[*] posted on 24-11-2007 at 05:40


Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie
If certain items are offensive to the employees of ebay why don't they just forbid their sale? By allowing sale then informing LE of the identity of the buyer it seems as if eBay is attempting "entrapment."


In point of fact they have done both & continue to do so. I have a feeling that people will start to be turned off to eBay as time goes on. I only wish I had at my finger tips the things which have been "banned" by that firm. I'm pretty sure that would be an informative list.

The question of whether that is entrapment in the legal sense is a damn good one.
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[*] posted on 24-11-2007 at 11:35


Banned by ebay
htt p://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

It has been a few years since I bothered with ebay, and the list has grown since I last looked.




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[*] posted on 7-12-2007 at 20:21


Quote:
Originally posted by chemrox
let's have a little perspective; having a user name "freebasing@hotmail.com" and spending 2500 on safrole is a little over the top ...


I came here to say this. Specifically, from the article:

In July 2006, Dubois used the PayPal account freebasing@hotmail.com to buy vacuum pumps, glass beakers, flasks and chemicals.

Golly, do you suppose "methmaker@hotmail.com" and "pleasebustme@hotmail.com" were already taken?

Quote:
I don't see a way to avoid being on various lists if you want to do anything the least bit complicated .. carbon tet is a CA precursor for example and P is awfully useful at times .. I like to use a little I2 to start Grignards ..


Well, you're clearly with the terrorists. I mean, what on Earth are Grignard reactions used for, other than making WMDs and dangerous drugs?
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[*] posted on 5-3-2008 at 23:52


intersting ebay arrest case at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428062dea1.html.
rather humerous really.
Once when I was bored I searched for sassafrass oil, looked at the people who were buying from the seller of the oil (which by the way was said to be synthetic on the product description) and in under a minute found someone with a numbered ebay ID whose entire buying history was a shopping list for an X lab. Didn't follow up to see if his account remained active, but it was easy for me to find someone doing dirty deeds, it would be even easier for ebay, yet he had been working on his lab for quite some time and aparently remained undetected so its hard to believe ebay makes a huge effort to bust these guys
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[*] posted on 6-3-2008 at 06:33


Ebay plays BOTH sides of the coin with profit first. Don't expect any effort on their part to protect your privacy. It's not in their bast interest nor is it something they have any stake in. aside from that Ebay believes in volume and low maintenance. That means the less they have to work the better. Interdiction from the constabulary makes work for them that yields no profits.
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[*] posted on 9-3-2008 at 01:01


It's true. All it has to do with is money and making sure they can keep on collecting more money. They will do the least possible as long as those two goals are realized. That's true of almost every corporation in the US if not the world.

If it's profitable (or they think not doing so will cause them to risk losing money) to work with LE then they will do whatever LE tells them to do. Like mentioned above, they will make the choice that ends in more profit or protection 100% of the time and if that choice makes it look like they are protecting the public then, even better for them.

Money, money and more money. That's the bottom line. Even in government (especially US).

On a lighter note. Let's say two people commit the same crime in the US. One person is rich and the other very poor. Who do you think is more likely to be punished more severly (for various reasons of course)? IMO that is not justice.

Our system of government tries to reduce this injustice by providing a public defender to poor people. Anyone who has ever had to use a public defender knows what I'm talking about when I say, "they are usually complete morons. Just useless." You might as well represent yourself. You know how they say, "A person who represents himself has a fool for a client"? I think a person who allows a public defender to represent them is more foolish than someone who represents themselves. I know I certainly would have been better off representing myself when I went to court a long time ago over all that bullshit.




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[*] posted on 30-9-2008 at 02:09


Me, I'm not a chemical buyer......But, I have more or less monitored chemical availability on e-bay. And, not much is offered anymore. What is still out there, seems to have gone way up in price.

So, you haven't actually purchased chemicals on e-bay? So what? Your browsing is being tracked. If a government agency asks e-bay for an inventory of every item you have ever browsed......There is a reasonable chance e-bay will have the records, and a 100% chance they will hand over whatever they have.

Aside from their anti-chemistry bias, E-bay has become incredibly sissy-fied in other ways. Nowadays, they have hundreds of rules about what you can and cannot, buy and sell.

No guns, no human body parts, no Nazi stuff, no porn, no large animal skulls........The list goes on, and on, and on.

Additionally, they now have announced, that they will no longer allow payment by cash/check/money order. You must use PayPal, a credit card, or some similar means of payment. All very trace-able

If a feller was a little paranoid, well.....He might get to thinkin' we're heading in the direction of becoming some kind of "Orwell-ian" police state.

Make that.....Corporate "Orwell-ian" police state. Sounds even better.

[Edited on 30-9-2008 by zed]

[Edited on 30-9-2008 by zed]

[Edited on 30-9-2008 by zed]
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[*] posted on 2-10-2008 at 22:31


Why would purchasing 1500L of acetone warrant being on the list. The social cycle is indeed moving from this conservative phase we have experienced this decade and social progressiveness will be popularized again over the next 10-15 years before the 30year cycle comes full circle. Its all so predictable it tedious.
I have a new technique for describing the hobby now and its appears to strike a popular chord with the ignorant. I simply compare the hobby to the same activity undertaken by 'aristocratic gentlemen of means' of centuries past and explain this is how science grew in the early phases. By connecting it with a time and romanticism before terrorism and junkies and bling people seem to not even imagine these things. I always take time to explain that science is actually a method of thinking, that ones needs to practice to improve.
I have been bothered for years by my inability to affect the trend in social thinking. I just don't have the placard waving, letter writing gene but i like to comment and complain. It has pleased me now to think that if we are to change this demonisation of the art it will be effective to go one individual at a time as one feels comfortable, people are tired of fear i believe and like a rational alternative, jut don't order 1500L of acetone or setup an ebay account called 'XTCDLR', i actually saw that as a number plate on a car in the 90's, i guess the transit authority didn't catch on immediately.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by Polverone]




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[*] posted on 18-12-2008 at 10:03


I've done some editing and removed a few posts as this thread was veering into religious discussion and the War on Drugs. Please keep it on-topic from here on out.



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[*] posted on 3-3-2012 at 14:48


Quote: Originally posted by Pyridinium  
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428062dea1.html

Looks to me as though Carlos Legrand was making something he shouldn't have been. I'm going to assume it was the safrole and the tablet press that got the authorities on him, but the thing that bothers me is that they listed several innocuous things on his arrest warrant as "used in the manufacture of MDMA". A melting point apparatus, MnO2, a rotavap, and a few other things that any [legitimate] lab would almost certainly have. The oxygen in the air and the water from the faucet could also be "used in the manufacture of" drugs or whatever.

So, despite the fact that many of us order glassware etc on ebay and use it for legitimate purposes, there is always the worry that someone will "get the wrong idea" when we buy distilling apparati, melting point apparati, thermometers, MnO2, etc. :mad:

That said, I don't plan to stop using ebay. Nor do I plan to stop being a chemist just because someone, who knows next to nothing about chemistry, has decided that my lab equipment could "potentially" be used to make drugs.

I think I know what some of you are worried about : if they look around in your lab and can't find any drug residue, they'll fudge the data. If you know what I mean. Whether that will actually happen or not seems to be a hotly debated area.

I know an analytical chemist who runs a certified testing lab. He processes samples from all over the state. He even gets work from 3-letter agencies. The authorities STILL came to his place to see what he was doing "with all these solvents".

Truly I say to you, something is wrong with this picture.

It still goes to the heart of the matter, do not order anything that is controlled or watched. The pill press item is on the DEA watch list even though it was on eBay. That gave them probable cause to get a warrant for his purchase records.
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[*] posted on 4-3-2012 at 09:13


Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter  
It doesn't matter who did the ratting. The fact is triple-beam scales are common in the
drug trade. I can buy one OTC without drawing suspicion but the nosy nanny, we
know as eBay is eager to please the LEOs.


Since when does buying a triple beam scale with a multitude of legitamite uses warrant an investigation?:(
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[*] posted on 5-3-2012 at 13:24


Quote: Originally posted by evil_lurker  
I've ordered tons of crap off of ebay with no problems... just stay the heck away from the iodine and sassafras oil and you should be OK.


I've order iodine (30mg) ... no knocks on the door.

I ordered it with 30mL of ammonium hydroxide too! :D




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