bolbol
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Red P to Black P?
Quote from Wiki:
"High pressures are usually required to produce black phosphorus, but it can also be produced at ambient conditions using metal salts as catalysts"
Anybody know of a way to make this stuff?
I have tons of the Red P and If I could change this stuff to black phosphorus at a home/garage setting that would be really great since black
phosphorus seems to cost a lot and I pretty much rather make it myself and learn something while at it... IF its possible to do so!
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woelen
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The only synthesis I have seen requires pressures of 12000+ bar, not something you do in a home lab.
There also seems to be a synthesis, using dissolved phosphorus in molten lead, but it is questionable whether the end product is really black P or
some impure violet P, contain lead as well.
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morganbw
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Does black P have any benefit other than being rare?
@edit
I did a little googleing and I think it would be cool for this to be within my element collection. Odd that I did not know about this 
[Edited on 15-2-2015 by morganbw]
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bolbol
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Yeah the high pressure method is definitely out of question but I'm wondering if anyone knows that "metal salt catalyst" method
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by woelen  | The only synthesis I have seen requires pressures of 12000+ bar, not something you do in a home lab.
There also seems to be a synthesis, using dissolved phosphorus in molten lead, but it is questionable whether the end product is really black P or
some impure violet P, contain lead as well. |
No, I'm fairly sure there is now a new route and that someone on SM actually had success with it.
A Google advanced domain specific search should unearth it.
Another allotrope of a known element is always an important discovery, regardless of real life spin offs.
[Edited on 15-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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blogfast25
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The third result here links to a low pressure method in a *.pdf in the SM archives:
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=black+phosphorus:scie...
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bolbol
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I checked the PDFs and they mention the SnI4 + Au + P method but again that would be kind of hard to pull of and leave it at such high temperatures
for the amount of days that it is required.
I also noticed they mention a Mercury Catalyzed way along with this method and the high pressure method. But sadly they dont talk more about that...
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blogfast25
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bolbol: no one said it was going to be easy.
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bolbol
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Yes I understand clearly but that method is still kind of way too hard. I'll do more searching of the citations that mention mercury catalysts and see
if I find something thats easier
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Fleaker
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The Au/ SnI4 method works as advertised.
[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Fleaker]
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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Bot0nist
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Black Phosphorus New Wonder Material in Optics
From phys.org
"Phosphorus, a highly reactive element commonly found in match heads(sic), tracer bullets, and fertilizers, can be turned into a stable crystalline
form known as black phosphorus. In a new study, researchers from the University of Minnesota used an ultrathin black phosphorus film—only 20 layers
of atoms—to demonstrate high-speed data communication on nanoscale optical circuits.
The devices showed vast improvement in efficiency over comparable devices using the earlier "wonder material" graphene."
[Edited on 2-3-2015 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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DJF90
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Isn't there a prep in Brauer using mercury?
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The Volatile Chemist
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Interesting. What about prep of violet phosphorus? Any easy, known methods? This is out of curiosity, though, as I'd have o way to make it.
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bolbol
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I had few hundred grams in hot water over a hotplate for several hours and they lost their bright red color and look violet.. well they probably arent
pure violet phosphorus but I'm thinking some of it converted during that because now it looks way darker in color. I could be wrong tho
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gdflp
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Brauer has a prep for it, it involves dissolving white phosphorus in molten lead in an evacuated ampoule, heating it for a couple of days at between
400°C and 675°C then cooling and either dissolving the lead in nitric acid, or removing electrolytically.
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The Volatile Chemist
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Thanks. Interesting.
I'm pretty sure Black Phosphorus is naturally found, one could always buy some at a mineral shop, or if you're looking for a more interesting way of
acquiring it, find it! 
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woelen
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Black phosphorus is not present as a (natural) mineral. Buying it is no option, unless you are very rich. Black P is very expensive, prices ranging
between $500 and $1000 per gram. In contrast, red P is appr. $10 per 100 grams and white P is a few dollars per gram (larger quantities make it
cheaper per gram).
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The Volatile Chemist
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | Black phosphorus is not present as a (natural) mineral. Buying it is no option, unless you are very rich. Black P is very expensive, prices ranging
between $500 and $1000 per gram. In contrast, red P is appr. $10 per 100 grams and white P is a few dollars per gram (larger quantities make it
cheaper per gram). |
What natural allotropes of phosphorus are there, then? Or are there none?
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woelen
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There are none. Phosphorus does not occur in nature as the free element.
Nearly all phosphorus in nature is in the +5 oxidation state (phosphate, pyrophosphate or more condensed phosphate-species). There may be some
phosphorus in the form of phosphine, due to certain anaerobic biological processes, but this only is a tiny fraction of all phosphorus in nature.
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