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Fantasma4500
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last time i checked up on the aluminium sulfate it had precipitate and nearly no liquid left, when i scraped the aluminium foil i saw that a very soft
and thick layer of aluminium sulfate had covered it..
i could just filter it off now and dry it as good as possible, then redissolve in water and react with (NH4)2CO3 to get the unexisting aluminium
carbonate which goes into gas and Al2O3 when formed..
but the yellowish powder i got from metal x + HCl what would that be then if not a chloride??
im getting unsure if this could be aluminium at all tho many facts points in the direction then yet others makes it impossible..
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  |
last time i checked up on the aluminium sulfate it had precipitate and nearly no liquid left, when i scraped the aluminium foil i saw that a very soft
and thick layer of aluminium sulfate had covered it..
i could just filter it off now and dry it as good as possible, then redissolve in water and react with (NH4)2CO3 to get the unexisting aluminium
carbonate which goes into gas and Al2O3 when formed..
but the yellowish powder i got from metal x + HCl what would that be then if not a chloride??
im getting unsure if this could be aluminium at all tho many facts points in the direction then yet others makes it impossible..
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Your Al2(SO4)3 crystallised: it does that to a soft, mushy, off white substance, at least in the conditions you used. Scrape some off and add quite a
bit of water, preferably with one drop of H2SO4 added to it. It should dissolve effortlessly to a dilute solution of Al sulphate.
To this solution add ammonia or sodium bicarbonate solution: both will precipitate white, gelatinous Al(OH)3.nH2O. To that precipitate, add strong (20
% or more) NaOH solution. The aluminium hydroxide will dissolve to sodium aluminate:
Al(OH)3(s) + NaOH(aq) === > NaAl(OH)4(aq)
This property (amphoterism) of aluminium is fairly unique to it and more or less proves your metal is mostly aluminium. Zinc would show very similar
behaviour but is much denser. Beryllium too but it’s much lighter (and trust me you have NOT found a chunk of metal worth $1000/kg - if not more!)
The yellow colour could come from ferric ions (Fe3+), either present in your HCl (very common in technical grades) or in your 'Metal X'.
[Edited on 23-3-2013 by blogfast25]
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | | Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat |
last time i checked up on the aluminium sulfate it had precipitate and nearly no liquid left, when i scraped the aluminium foil i saw that a very soft
and thick layer of aluminium sulfate had covered it..
i could just filter it off now and dry it as good as possible, then redissolve in water and react with (NH4)2CO3 to get the unexisting aluminium
carbonate which goes into gas and Al2O3 when formed..
but the yellowish powder i got from metal x + HCl what would that be then if not a chloride??
im getting unsure if this could be aluminium at all tho many facts points in the direction then yet others makes it impossible..
|
Your Al2(SO4)3 crystallised: it does that to a soft, mushy, off white substance, at least in the conditions you used. Scrape some off and add quite a
bit of water, preferably with one drop of H2SO4 added to it. It should dissolve effortlessly to a dilute solution of Al sulphate.
To this solution add ammonia or sodium bicarbonate solution: both will precipitate white, gelatinous Al(OH)3.nH2O. To that precipitate, add strong (20
% or more) NaOH solution. The aluminium hydroxide will dissolve to sodium aluminate:
Al(OH)3(s) + NaOH(aq) === > NaAl(OH)4(aq)
This property (amphoterism) of aluminium is fairly unique to it and more or less proves your metal is mostly aluminium. Zinc would show very similar
behaviour but is much denser. Beryllium too but it’s much lighter (and trust me you have NOT found a chunk of metal worth $1000/kg - if not more!)
The yellow colour could come from ferric ions (Fe3+), either present in your HCl (very common in technical grades) or in your 'Metal X'.
[Edited on 23-3-2013 by blogfast25] |
so to sum up..
XxClx + Na2CO3
XxCO3 + H2SO4
XxSO4 + .. wait..
XxClx gives this gelatinous stuff..
i could just add NaOH to this..
ok, it seems that i do have an aluminium compound here..
and the yellow colour i have thought as being FeCl3 in the HCl, as i remember that you explained the colour of common HCl ^^
thanks alot, and also i should have some aluminon coming around aswell to perform a 99.9999% chance test (:
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blogfast25
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But do read up on the test: this one is easy to get wrong, primarily because the free (dissolved) Aluminon is roughly the same colour as the same
stuff chemisorbed onto the Al(OH)3.
I've bought some Aluminol this WE and will be experimenting with it when it gets here. I'm quite surprised that so little interest has been taken in
Aluminol on this board. Mixell's reference to it appears to be the only one so far.
[Edited on 24-3-2013 by blogfast25]
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KonkreteRocketry
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Strontium ? it don't react with HCl, it's melting point is 700 near aluminum's, it barely react with NaOH also, with density 2.6, it is also shiny...
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry | | Strontium ? it don't react with HCl, it's melting point is 700 near aluminum's, it barely react with NaOH also, with density 2.6, it is also shiny...
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Watch the video by antiswat. When's the last time you found several pounds of strontium metal abandoned like that? 
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry | | Strontium ? it don't react with HCl, it's melting point is 700 near aluminum's, it barely react with NaOH also, with density 2.6, it is also shiny...
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well i got it to start reacting with HCl diluted by using it as an anode, so i guess it cant be strontium, actually told myself it couldnt be
strontium as metals in that group reacts with water..?
anyways, i still doubt it as.. well who would suddenly just drop a 30 cm long piece of strotium out of their wallet and not realise it?!
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blogfast25
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Strontium is also even softer than Ca and reacts with air even more too. Forget that.
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blogfast25
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Aluminon Lake Dye: Aluminon ‘chemisorbed’ onto Al(OH)3:
Left: obtained with a 0.1 % Al2O3 solution. Weak but definitely positive.
Middle: obtained with a 1 % Al2O3 solution. Strong positive.
Right: water with a small crystal of ferric ammonium alum dissolved in it. The Fe(OH)3 forms a purple/brown Lake Dye with Aluminon. So ferric ions can
create false positives. So can, apparently, Be2+ cations.
Note how all Aluminon is absorbed by the hydroxides, so that the supernatant liquid is clear and colourless.
[Edited on 3-4-2013 by blogfast25]
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Fantasma4500
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nice.. i need to get to test it out, meanwhile i had some leftover aluminium from my aluminium sulfate which i decided to react with HCl
now that i have dried it it have the very same colour as metal x chloride powder!
its seeming more and more likely.. but i will need to test it out with aluminon which i have laying right infront of me..
shouldnt be that lazy, perhaps too much stuff running at once.. but you know what they say about empty desktops.. (;
i made some ammonium acetate aswell from relatively pure acetic acid and ammonium hydroxide (/ NH3*H2O)
couldnt seem to get it dry, wont matter anyways i guess as its supposed to be dissolved..
even when i dissolved some of the aluminium chloride in water and decanted off the liquid i was left with a growing precipitate every time i poured in
new water
but i will put up some conclusive evidence, tho.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat | even when i dissolved some of the aluminium chloride in water and decanted off the liquid i was left with a growing precipitate every time i poured in
new water
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I'm not sure what you understand by 'aluminium chloride' in this context. Actual, anhydrous AlCl3 can only be prepared ONLY by the direct
action of hot, dry HCl or Cl2 on pure Al. The obtained product reacts immediately with water and hydrolyses promptly. Anhydrous aluminium
chloride isn't a salt; it's a mainly covalent compound.
Dissolving Al in aqueous HCl does give a solution of AlCl3 but from that solution only a hydrate can be obtained and only in
'forcing conditions' (gassing the solution with HCl gas).
What you're talking about is highly hydrolysed AlCl3, a mixture of Al hydroxychlorides...
[Edited on 3-4-2013 by blogfast25]
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Fantasma4500
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sorry for bringing this in so late, i have tried to reach this thread but saw so many other threads and pretty much forgot it :s
i did get the reaction as seen in the instructional video on how to use aluminon, i got this gel like aluminon lake precipitate.. so i can pretty much
conclude it does at least CONTAIN aluminium..
i tested it on a solution containing iron, where it gave the result i also saw in the video, so i did make it properly..
also saw some strange tetraammine forming when i put a pipette that still had ammonia on it, into the (steel) chloride solution i got from using a
chain i was testing for steel..
perhaps i just figured out how to drag nickel out of steel.. useful stuff (:
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