The Volatile Chemist
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A chemistry 'Achievements' list idea
I know, I come up with a lot of bad ideas, maybe one will stick eventually.
I noticed that there was no list of 'should-try' reactions in chemistry. There was also no sort of achievements list of hard projects to try to
preform. I have compiled the two ideas into one, a sort of 'feats' list, of reactions for amateur chemists to try to perform some time in their lives.
The reactions would require progressively harder skills, and make interesting compounds. The list wouldn't give how to get the desired
product, so it would at least encourage thinking.
Does this sound like a good idea? I know I've presented a lot of ideas here which have just gone 'kapoot'. I have included below a sample of what I
had in mind. The five goals/feats below would be the first five procedures on such a list.
The list would take suggestions (sent to me, maybe), but would not be part of any wiki, or anything (Please take the hint, wiki people, I want this to
be separate).
| Code: |
1. Produce a metal sulfate from a transition metal
Eg. Zinc Sulfate from Zinc
Isolate: A transition metal sulfate
2. Produce copper(II) sulfate by any means
Eg. not given
Isolate: Copper(II) Sulfate
3. Produce a metal chloride
Eg. make Cobalt(II) Chloride
Isolate: Copper(II) Sulfate
4. Make Copper(II) Chloride starting with copper metal
Eg. not given
Isolate: Copper(II) Chloride
5. Make Copper(I) Chloride by any means
Eg. not given
Isolate: Copper(I) Chloride
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It would take the format of a page on my website, at ptp.x10.mx/tacal.txt if everyone thinks it is a good idea. I think it would be fun to go through such a list doing all the interesting looking
reactions (All would be designed to have a product), and it would be a good way to buy chemicals for your lab based on procedures you wanted to do.
Please consider it,
Nathan P., The Volatile Chemist (TVC)
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aga
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This is not a bad idea at all.
I would suggest that you allow others to suggest things that they themselves have made.
Each substance to be made Must have been successfully made by the suggestor, with pertinent tests to show that it was successful.
I suggest Aluminium Sulphate from sulphuric acid and aluminium, which is trivial, yet Hard at the same time.
Test is whether it solidifies or not into rock-hard chunks of pure-white.
[Edited on 21-11-2014 by aga]
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DraconicAcid
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If you're making copper(II) sulphate, follow it up with the ammonia complex.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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smaerd
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I like the idea in general. I am happy to see threads like these and the 'contest to make tempo' one as well. It could be a fun way to encourage some
of us to get off our asses and into the amateur lab to do a fun mini project. Honestly I'd like to see a subsection of things like this and
collaborative projects. Even if it was just a bunch of threads of 5-10 people posting pictures and their procedures for obtaining a compound. Could
demonstrate some creativity too.
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j_sum1
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Love the idea. I saw a similar kind of idea in a completely unrelated field -- a kind of build-your-skills / tutorial kind of thing.
There are a couple of things that make it tricky in this context.
Firstly, the suitability of such a list depends on how well it fits the skill-set of those who would use it. And most people have not learned their
chemistry in a linear fashion. My knowledge is decidedly pear-shaped. On the one hand I am teaching it at high school level. On the other hand
there are some very basic techniques and reagents that I have never been exposed to. My organic synthesis skills are virtually zip. Others have the
imbalance in other areas. I read with interest posts by people who appear to have no understanding of thermodynamics but are asking detailed
questions about lithium aluminium hydride or other highly energetic substances or maybe attempting what appears to me to be a complex organic
synthesis.
Secondly, the difficulty of these kind of projects depends to a large extent on what reagents and equipment people have. Making copper sulfate for
example is a no-brainer if you have sulfuric acid. I don't have sulfuric acid. My route is going to be a whole lot more difficult. Availability of
H2O2, H2SO4, HNO3, Na, NaOH, KClO3 and NH3 varies widely to name a few. A similar thing can be said for equipment. Life is made a lot easier if you
have certain equipment. (I love my current-regulated DC power supply!)
Perhaps the list of projects can be composed predominantly of those things that are not dependent on these kinds of substances. I propose copper
acetate for example. It was mentioned here a few weeks back and I now have a beautiful little pile of teal-coloured crystals. I intend to do a
larger volume, recrystallise and grow the crystals larger though. But it has been a nice simple side-project for me and very satisfying.
Thirdly, and this might be the kicker, is that many of us already have our own list of projects that this will compete with. Right now I have
numerous syntheses that I wish to do for my element collection. I have some experiments going on some phosphates that I picked up. I am cleaning and
purifying the gunk from a dry-cell battery to produce MnCl2. I am making H2SO4 by a couple of different methods. I might not be inclined to work
through a list of this nature. Although if there is something really interesting I might have a go.
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gardul
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I do like this Idea, and I do think j_sum1 has come up with a good point. But, What would be done perhaps is something along the lines ( where it can
be applied);
Lets say Sodium Chloride is the objective.
1. Make Sodium Chloride through a double displacement reaction.
2. Make Sodium chloride through a single displacement reaction.
3. Make Sodium Chloride from metallic sodium and chlorine gas.
I think a level system would be an intresting addition to this idea. of course this would only apply to reactions that can be done in this manner.
I just made you read this very pointless signature. How does it feel?
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Romain
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Very good idea! I have myself made a list of the compounds I have synthesised such as potassium permanganate, iron (II) and (III) sulfates, etc.
I have not always isolated them in the pure form though (especially the permanganate, which is hard to crystallize). Observing them is enough to me.
But isolation is an important step, and maybe growing a large crystal of the substance to assess it's purity would be interesting too. (If the
substance can crystallize)
When I get a pure and somewhat difficult to obtain compound, I put it in an ampoule (flame-sealed test tube) as a proof of my experiment. So far I
have ampoules of sulfur (recrystallized from an unknown paint thinner, since I don't have toluene) and crystalline ammonium nitrate.
@j_sum1: I agree with you on the availability of chemicals: I took me months to make copper sulfate; I had to electrolyse sodium bisulfate with copper
electrodes and I was left with sodium and copper sulfates in solution, which were VERY hard to separate. Now I have 10% sulfuric acid so it's way
easier...
A list of idea would be better than an achievement list in my opinion.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | | Thirdly, and this might be the kicker, is that many of us already have our own list of projects that this will compete with. |
Yes. Frankly I don't see the point of this exercise: you're producing yet another LIST! How many does anyone need?
Want interesting things to do? Fine. But surely you don't need another list to tell you what to consider?
To me posts like this belong in 'Miscellaneous', not here where we need more science and less chat.
[Edited on 22-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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j_sum1
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Probably right. If I had started this thread I would have put it in misc or beginnings.
Some years ago when I was pursuing an interest in fractal art, a website devoted to a particularly good piece of software had a list of ten
challenges. These challenges were designed to help people devekop fundamental skills and to push them in diections that they would probably not go
under their own motive power.
The idea has some merit. At least for beginners building up their skill set. It would want to be constructed carefully for the reasons I stated above.
What say this thread moves to beginnings and the small fish can thrash it out.
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The Volatile Chemist
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Thanks for the feedback. In general, the example above is just my idea for a format. It is just easy experimental goals that I cam up to show what my
idea was. Obviously they would be more difficult. I also would at least separate them into organic and inorganic sections.
THE WHOLE POINT of the list is to be a list of things that you can do, but may not have thought of yet. Eg. most of us can make
chlorobutanol (1,1,1-trichloro-2-methylpropan-2-ol), but most of us haven't thought of making it, or just haven't. It is a list to be scanned through
for things that you can do, it just doesn't say how. I most certainly could change that, and add a 'how', if you think it's necessary.
| Quote: | | At least for beginners building up their skill set. |
It's supposed to be for everyone, with contributed procedures that amateur chemists are capable of simply. Another example is the production of
hexamine. Most can make it, but haven't. All you need is formaldehyde and ammonia, but few have done it.
Regardless of everything else, stating:
| Quote: | | small fish can thrash it out. |
is rather offensive.
The tier idea is interesting. And I'll include your suggestion aga and upload the document linked to in the first post.
Edit: I am going to change the format so it is more of just a list.
[Edited on 11-22-2014 by The Volatile Chemist]
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j_sum1
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Rather offensive? Shouldn't be. Certainly not intended. I'm a sardine nex to blogfast. And he has a point.
This woukd be ideak for a competitions and challenges sub-forum. Hint mods.
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aga
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At a random guess, would it not be better for people to just try something, then ask questions about it (whether it works or not) maybe post photos ?
Oh. That's what Science Madness is all about.
Too many ideaks and not enough actual Doing any scientific experiments.
Congratulations on being a Sardine.
Compared to blogfast25, i'm not even formed enough to positively identify.
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Hawkguy
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I'm sorry but although this seems like a great way to find cool procedures, I don't understand the starting idea. Is this to just lead others through
cool experiments, or to establish the experiments as sort of like milestone achievements for home chemistry?...
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j_sum1
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Ideaks. Yeah. You can tell when I type with my phone.
@the volatile chemist
Why not give it some serious thought, come up with a list and see what the response is.
And see if you can bump the idea of a comps and challenges subforum while you are at it. U2Uing the mods might do it.
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The Volatile Chemist
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OK. Will-do.
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Nicodem
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I tried to engage volunteers into some similar project for the Organic chemistry section. Unfortunately, no volunteers volunteered.
Volunteer project: Org. chem. index of amateur syntheses
Wish you better luck.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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The Volatile Chemist
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Maybe it's best just to continue building up our wiki, and have it as a central point. Sorry if you-all didn't like the idea.
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